Is it enough just to call yourself an anarchist?

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plasmatelly's picture
plasmatelly
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Sep 3 2011 12:18
Is it enough just to call yourself an anarchist?

The year isn't 1750 and anarchist forms of organisation and struggle are well developed... so is it enough just to call yourself an anarchist?

(Personally, I think not.)

Who's up for it? wink

Pikel's picture
Pikel
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Sep 3 2011 13:29

Has anyone claimed that is enough? No, it's not "enough". It might be a start, though.

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plasmatelly
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Sep 3 2011 15:47

Yes they have! No offence to comrades on here as they may just be reluctant to say much more about themselves in their profiles, but there are several on Libcom. I know several class-struggle anarchists who neither identify with syndicalism nor communism. In my experience too many people describe themselves as anarchists without any association - even individualism. For them it is enough - but how enquiring their minds are may be the problem. There's plenty of socialists, who the tag socialist is satisfying in itself.

Yorkie Bar
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Sep 3 2011 16:25

I think in terms of labelling ourselves the answer depends on the context - so in some situations I'd just use say 'anarchists' but if I was making a particular distinction between different kinds of anarchists I'd say "anarcho-communists", "anarchosyndicalists", "mutualists" etc.

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Sep 3 2011 16:50
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depends on the context

Yeah I agree, but for those who don't subscribe to established anarchist schools of thought/organisation, I can't help but think they never left the epistomological starting blocks (and this isn't always the case). My beef is this: I come across decent comrades, well read, politically active at some level, class conscious but won't associate themselves with anarchist-communism or anarcho-syndicalism, why the bleeding hell not?

Stevein7
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Sep 3 2011 17:31

The question indicates that the label does not differentiate between a variety of contradictory pespectives.

I am in favour of a classless stateless society.

I am a member of the ICT.

Am I an anarchist?

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plasmatelly
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Sep 3 2011 17:38
Quote:
The question indicates that the label does not differentiate between a variety of contradictory pespectives.

I am in favour of a classless stateless society.

I am a member of the ICT.

Am I an anarchist?

Without going any further - only happy to do so - do you call yourself an anarchist? I suspect you don't..

yourmum
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Sep 3 2011 18:54

the word enough doesnt make much sense without reference to a purpose, so: enough for what?

batswill
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Sep 3 2011 19:41
Yorkie Bar wrote:
I think in terms of labelling ourselves the answer depends on the context - so in some situations I'd just use say 'anarchists' but if I was making a particular distinction between different kinds of anarchists I'd say "anarcho-communists", "anarchosyndicalists", "mutualists" etc.

Hah LOL, mutualists, LOL,,,,

brown spaghetti's picture
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Sep 3 2011 21:22

claiming to be an anarchist simply and flatly, is to me, seemingly just as distinctive as declaring to be an anarcho-communist, it exhibits a fluid adherence to anarchism without devotion to one single method and philosophy of anarchism. or, it just means you don't understand the nuances yet and you might be dumb. Clearly a "black anarchist" would in philosophical and methodological disposition be open to multiple forms of association and social organization, wouldn't they? Anarcho-communism is nebulous a title too if you get to the roots of it because anarchist communism can manifest itself in a thousandfold different manners depending on the constitution of the commune practising it. If you have 30 anarcho-communists in a room drinking tea, they will I assure you not all be drinking the same colored tea; no, they'll be drinking different colors.

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Sep 4 2011 00:53

Q. Why do anarchists drink herbal tea?

A. Because proper tea is theft!

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Sep 4 2011 08:45

brown spaghetti wrote:

Quote:
it exhibits a fluid adherence to anarchism without devotion to one single method and philosophy of anarchism

Ahh but is it? To me it always appears to be a list of rejections.

yourmum wrote

Quote:
the word enough doesnt make much sense without reference to a purpose, so: enough for what?

This is my position too. I was hoping to get a few more people on like brown spaghetti, but I see my bait isn't as tasty as I'd hoped! And the enough for what - I'm asking is this enough to be a credible stand point; is it enough to claim to be a "representative" form of a well developed, well understood set of socio-economic politics?
I reckon the term "anarchist" should be used to as an all encompassing generalising sense, and and any serious use of the word as a determining expression should only be with the prefix "anarcho-". (I hope no one's building me a wikka man!)

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Sep 4 2011 10:52
plasmatelly wrote:
I reckon the term "anarchist" should be used to as an all encompassing generalising sense, and and any serious use of the word as a determining expression should only be with the prefix "anarcho-". (I hope no one's building me a wikka man!)

Would you not make some allowance for people who may have recognised that the state is, by it's nature, repressive to their class but haven't yet gone further in their analysis? Or do you think one minute people are bumbling along thinking everything will be fine when their party of choice gets in, then the next minute they've absorbed Kropotkin, Bakunin, Proudhon, Marx, Chomsky, Goldman, engaged in workplace struggle, become class conscious and been rubber-stamped into the particular ideology which seems to suit them?

Grey areas are fine.

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Sep 4 2011 11:42

Yeah, I suppose. I guess when I know anarchists who have been the same for 20 years.. smile

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Sep 4 2011 11:53

Maybe it'll take the actual occurrence of the revolution for some people to make up their minds about some stuff. I suppose that in itself precludes them from certain ideologies.

Stevein7
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Sep 4 2011 12:41

do you call yourself an anarchist? I suspect you don't..
**********
No, I don't but maybe I could.
It is not precise enough.
I think communist is my choice.
Perhaps left communist, but they all carry problems.

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Sep 4 2011 12:44

I don't have a problem with people seeing themselves as just anarchist. This is mainly because the people that do (mostly) are just genuinely not sure about the nuances and details so don't want to associate themselves with a school of anarchist thought without knowing what they are truly associating themselves with. I personally define myself as anarcho communist at the moment. I used to define myself as anarcho syndicalist, but that was mainly out of ignorance. I just read all the faq's on anarcho syndicalism.net and agreed with everything about the post revolution society, so thought that was anarcho syndicalism. I now know that while anarcho syndicalists do strive for these aims, defining yourself as a anarcho syndicalist is more to do with how to get to revolution rather than what to do after. I'm still finding my feet, so I have chosen to associate myself with the end result rather than how to get there. I think my profile still says syndicalist, I think I will go and change that now.

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Sep 4 2011 21:42
plasmatelly wrote:
Ahh but is it? To me it always appears to be a list of rejections.)

Theoretically, a country of people where government has been abolished and the bourgeois have all been beheaded, is a country that can be organized in a diverse many ways, where anarchism flourishes and becomes much more sophisticated, so, maybe some of these anarchists have this in mind, deep within their mindly minds.... or they're just dumb. Ha ha ha ha! And having this in mind, maybe, they realize that one can neither ascribe or prescribe any one mode of anarchism, because in a true country of anarchists, there will be many forms of anarchism that are experimented with, combined, and transformed...... or perhaps the Capitalists will destroy us all.

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Sep 4 2011 22:33

Anarchism cant, wont, and should not exist in one country

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Sep 4 2011 22:46
the croydonian anarchist wrote:
Anarchism cant, wont, and should not exist in one country

Not for ever, but it's going to have to start somewhere. How do you co-ordinate global revolution? Facebook? Clearly the domino-effect thing is possible but that fails when one domino doesn't topple.

I'm clueless on this and would welcome education/pointers.

I'm sure this has been discussed to death, I will do some digging.

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Sep 5 2011 00:44

World revolution requires a catalyst which has a universal character, which I definitely believe is possible myself, but it's also possible I would say that this has a small likelihood! But who knows? The world is quite queer these days!! Quite queer!!!

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Sep 5 2011 06:51

Yes...quite queer, indeed....

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Sep 5 2011 09:29

[b]Stevein7 wrote

Quote:
I am in favour of a classless stateless society.

I am a member of the ICT.

Am I an anarchist?

I think we all know the answer to that one. The rudiments to subscribing to anarchism may be very sketchy, but there is a whole load of culture and historical experience that many left communists would disagree with. But it's an interesting one. For instance, I know some anarchos who prefer marx's materialism to say, hegel's idealism. It's at that root level I almost think of it as useless unless attached to communism.

@brown spaghetti - I've no idea what you're on about, but good luck all the same.

Manic
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Sep 5 2011 11:46
Pikel wrote:
the croydonian anarchist wrote:
Anarchism cant, wont, and should not exist in one country

Not for ever, but it's going to have to start somewhere. How do you co-ordinate global revolution? Facebook? Clearly the domino-effect thing is possible but that fails when one domino doesn't topple.

I'm clueless on this and would welcome education/pointers.

I'm sure this has been discussed to death, I will do some digging.

Say if the working class in the UK took control of the state. After a short period of re-organization to make sure commodities would still be produced and reach the population we could abolish money. The global effects of one major country abolishing their currency would be devastating to capitalism. We've seen how connected the world markets are in the current recession by the effect of a few dodgy mortgages, now imagine every pound sterling held by other countries became worthless and the effects that would have on global capitalism.
We can also presume that if the working class in the UK were able to take state power then the working class at least in major countries in Europe would be in a similar position. The effect of a large nation abolishing currency would provide the opportunity as well as the impetus for the working class in those countries to follow suit.
Some countries may resist more than others and attempt to become isolationist and maintain capitalism on a national level. But eventually they would be overwhelmed not only at home but in their interests in the third world.

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Sep 5 2011 12:19
Manic wrote:
The effect of a large nation abolishing currency would provide the opportunity as well as the impetus for the working class in those countries to follow suit.

How exactly would it provide opportunity ? To my thinking, the state, seeing the example, would make doubly sure to repress any attempt and adopt an out right totalitarian regime temporarily until the threat had been neutralized, most likely by the the biggest super power at the same time just coming in and killing everyone.

Simply, my example is Spain. If the revolution is isolated to one area, with no other people from other areas engaged in their own struggle but coming over in solidarity and co coordinating their efforts, it becomes significantly easier for the state to restore the place to 'order'.

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Sep 5 2011 12:23

Look at it as if you were in a war strategist or whatever. If you have only lost one area, and the threat is small and isolated, its fuck easy to just go in there and take it back. If you have threats spreading fast, an attack from all angles, its near impossible, especially if they all have a common cause and are co coordinating their actions.

Manic
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Sep 5 2011 12:49
the croydonian anarchist wrote:
Manic wrote:
The effect of a large nation abolishing currency would provide the opportunity as well as the impetus for the working class in those countries to follow suit.

How exactly would it provide opportunity ? To my thinking, the state, seeing the example, would make doubly sure to repress any attempt and adopt an out right totalitarian regime temporarily until the threat had been neutralized, most likely by the the biggest super power at the same time just coming in and killing everyone.

The chances of revolution are greatly increased during times of economic turmoil. The ruling class would be panicked the markets would go crazy loosening their control over the population. As I said other countries would have to be almost there and I don't think it's a stretch to think that if the UK was that most of Europe would be far behind. This would provide them ample opportunity to go one step further. As I also said there is a possibility that some countries would turn isolationist and attempt to maintain capitalism on a national level but I doubt they could hold out indefinitely, especially when the countries that have had a revolution have opened their borders to immigrants fleeing the brutal attempts to quell revolution in their own country.There would of course be attempts at counter revolution, I didn't mean to imply that it would be a walk in the park and yes there may also be attempted invasions from foreign powers, no one said it was going to be easy. But say if the knock on effect of the UK abolishing money caused the knock on effect of revolution in France, Germany and Italy within a short space of time, who also abolished money. That would absolutely cripple the economies of the world, just look how worried they are at Greece going bankrupt. It would be absolutely devastating to capitalism.
If you want more opportunity and impetus than that for the rest of the world, then I don't know what to say.

Manic
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Sep 5 2011 12:51
the croydonian anarchist wrote:
Look at it as if you were in a war strategist or whatever. If you have only lost one area, and the threat is small and isolated, its fuck easy to just go in there and take it back. If you have threats spreading fast, an attack from all angles, its near impossible, especially if they all have a common cause and are co coordinating their actions.

Good I'm glad we agree, but as the geezer said someone is going to have to go first. It's highly unlikely that they would all go at the same time so the other countries may need a little push.

yourmum
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Sep 5 2011 12:58

producing commodities is producing value is producing money which is the measure of value.

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Sep 5 2011 22:29
the croydonian anarchist wrote:
Look at it as if you were in a war strategist or whatever. If you have only lost one area, and the threat is small and isolated, its fuck easy to just go in there and take it back. If you have threats spreading fast, an attack from all angles, its near impossible, especially if they all have a common cause and are co coordinating their actions.

Yes, that seems true. However also, defeated revolutions are embers underneath the Fire of History and they keep burning until they alight the people once again! Viva the Revolution!!! However small its breadth!!!! VIVA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Sep 5 2011 22:49

I think what you're asking is it ok for someone to have digested revolutionary theory, accepted the historical heritage of the workers movement, accepted the need for a working-class revolution to abolish nation-states and capitalist relations worldwide; and not actively 'do something' even though they know all of these things and believe in them. Right?