Let me tell you why libcom is wrong

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Schmoopie's picture
Schmoopie
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May 20 2016 16:34
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libcom is wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, WRONG, I tell you! (Stamps foot and splinters into a thousand fragments)

There is an inherent contradiction between a 'communist' website on a bourgeois medium but I just can't place my foot on it. Someone might respond that it is no more contradictory than a printed communist text but this is not quite accurate. Once a communist printed text falls into the hands of the worker it belongs to her. On the web the information always remains the property of the enemy. No?

Unless the information gleaned from the site remains stored in the worker's brain; but my inkling is that the electronic information we take in leaves our brains at a faster rate than previously had the printed word, partly because more information is bombarded at us.

Just rocking the boat folks.

Khawaga's picture
Khawaga
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May 20 2016 17:06

The worker could print out the text, save it to their device, or download the entire library as a torrent. I mean, who the fuck is stopping anyone from doing that? And I'd assume that many workers think that it's just as fine to access this site with whatever device.

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boozemonarchy
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May 20 2016 17:14
Sleeper wrote:
Let me tell you why libcom is wrong

1. The name is shit and wrong. It makes no sense to anyone but a few public school educated arseholes.

2. The analysis is wrong because it ignores working class people and their experiences.

3. The forums are shit, and wrong because no one but the stupid creators creators can be arsed with them.

4. Cutting up source work is what idiots do, well paid idiots to sabotage our claims to a better society.

Feel free to add your thoughts here

Thank fuck, I've been waiting for this thread -

5. Admins always mean and arbitrary, mooselike even.

6. Crazy penguin remains constant threat for years and years.

7. Lack of snacks.

Schmoopie's picture
Schmoopie
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May 20 2016 19:51
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The worker could print out the text, save it to their device, or download the entire library

This is true but how many of us do print out texts any more? Saving an article to a device is all good and well but devices break, get stolen and fall from top pockets into the toilet bowl. It is not as resilient as a paper file tucked away in a cupboard or a loft, or a book sitting on a shelf. Call me old fashioned but to me cyberspace is a stitch up just like outer space.

boozemonarchy's picture
boozemonarchy
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May 20 2016 20:08
boozemonarchy wrote:
Sleeper wrote:
Let me tell you why libcom is wrong

1. The name is shit and wrong. It makes no sense to anyone but a few public school educated arseholes.

2. The analysis is wrong because it ignores working class people and their experiences.

3. The forums are shit, and wrong because no one but the stupid creators creators can be arsed with them.

4. Cutting up source work is what idiots do, well paid idiots to sabotage our claims to a better society.

Feel free to add your thoughts here

Thank fuck, I've been waiting for this thread -

5. Admins always mean and arbitrary, mooselike even.

6. Crazy penguin remains constant threat for years and years.

7. Lack of snacks.

8. Unlike most websites, the geocities-izer actually improves the aesthetic and functional qualities of libcom.org.

jef costello's picture
jef costello
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May 20 2016 20:12
Schmoopie wrote:

This is true but how many of us do print out texts any more? Saving an article to a device is all good and well but devices break, get stolen and fall from top pockets into the toilet bowl. It is not as resilient as a paper file tucked away in a cupboard or a loft, or a book sitting on a shelf. Call me old fashioned but to me cyberspace is a stitch up just like outer space.

We're not likely to print stuff out and these media can be less resilient. But the texts can be downloaded again, they can be mirrored in seconds on multiple sites, they can be transmitted via email, phone, bluetooth, usb etc. We can back them up and copy them infinitely. We can have a copy on a computer a tablet, a phone etc in seconds.

There was a collection of anarchist texts on bitorrent

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Chilli Sauce
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May 21 2016 05:12
freemind wrote:
I think this is a good site but fail to see the relovence of posts like what was the last film you watched or what are you listening to.Id prefer blogs about hard political issues not lifestylism.

You would have loved libcommunity then....

Schmoopie's picture
Schmoopie
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May 21 2016 06:20
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You would have loved libcommunity then....

Was that the original name of the site? My apologies, I assumed 'libcom' stemmed from libertarian communism. Perhaps, if that is the case, it should appear as a subheading on the top of the page: 'libcom.org: for a libertarian community'.

From a relative outsiders perspective, these are the most obvious problematics:

1. The Banner-head: I liked it when it was first introduced because I never liked the original one – too culturally specific. I liked it because it appeared to be an alternative media to the BBC (bum-ba-claats); now that feature seems like a parochial drawback.

2. The Size and Scope of the Library: brothers and sisters, we really need to lose some weight; and we also need to organise the stuff that is kept so we can retrieve an article.

3. Personally: I think that the issues to do with ties to Aufheben are a stigma that needs resolving. At the risk of sounding like a Trotskiste, that organ has degenerated and ties need to be severed publicly. I know that would break a few hearts

Just a few suggestions and not a critism: I'm happy with the status quo of the site.

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jef costello
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May 21 2016 09:47
Schmoopie wrote:
2. The Size and Scope of the Library: brothers and sisters, we really need to lose some weight; and we also need to organise the stuff that is kept so we can retrieve an article.

The problem with the library is that it is largely entered by users so there isn't an over-arching design or plan, although there are tags and collections.

It would be good to have the tags for the library more obviously accessible (I didn't know how to access them until a few days ago. ) and to have them for history as well.

I don't think it's realistic to have someone curate the entire library, but it could be interesting to create pages similar to the libcom guides for particular things (DRUM, CNT, green bans) and have them accessible on a higher level, front page one and have a couple on the history front page etc. Each page could be the main responsibility of an individual so they would write a basic article and put in the links that they knew of and other users could suggest / add articles / links etc. It would still be piecemeal, but it could be an interesting way to make the site more accessible. As things stand I never read history or library articles unless they're on the front page or someone else links to them. We could even have a random article button (although that might be a bit silly)

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May 21 2016 12:42
Schmoopie wrote:
Quote:
The worker could print out the text, save it to their device, or download the entire library

This is true but how many of us do print out texts any more? Saving an article to a device is all good and well but devices break, get stolen and fall from top pockets into the toilet bowl. It is not as resilient as a paper file tucked away in a cupboard or a loft, or a book sitting on a shelf. Call me old fashioned but to me cyberspace is a stitch up just like outer space.

I would love it if you printed the whole of libcom so it was no longer hosted on a bourgeois medium.

If you do that and post pics I will give you admin permissions so you can go through and delete most of the library.

jef costello wrote:
Schmoopie wrote:
2. The Size and Scope of the Library: brothers and sisters, we really need to lose some weight; and we also need to organise the stuff that is kept so we can retrieve an article.

The problem with the library is that it is largely entered by users so there isn't an over-arching design or plan, although there are tags and collections.

It would be good to have the tags for the library more obviously accessible (I didn't know how to access them until a few days ago. ) and to have them for history as well.

at the moment every section has its own separately navigable tags/authors and map index. Just go to the page and click on the tabs at the top.

We acknowledge this isn't very clear, and so in the redesigned version of the site hope to have this a bit better.

Quote:

I don't think it's realistic to have someone curate the entire library, but it could be interesting to create pages similar to the libcom guides for particular things (DRUM, CNT, green bans) and have them accessible on a higher level, front page one and have a couple on the history front page etc.

This is a good idea. Basically we were meant to have a link to our reading guides in the blue box on the front page alongside About and the introductory guides, but haven't got round to putting it on yet.

Quote:
Each page could be the main responsibility of an individual so they would write a basic article and put in the links that they knew of and other users could suggest / add articles / links etc. It would still be piecemeal, but it could be an interesting way to make the site more accessible. As things stand I never read history or library articles unless they're on the front page or someone else links to them.

basically we would love this. We want people to do things like this and add them to the reading guides. However we need people to actually do it, so if anyone fancies taking on a topic, finding writing a clear introductory article and then putting together a more detailed reading guide that would be amazing!

Quote:
We could even have a random article button (although that might be a bit silly)

there are lots of places random articles do pop-up, as we have randomised featured articles in the right-hand bar and the bottom bar of the site, as well as on the front page and in things like the front page quote box etc. (Although I know I never look at the front page of the site, I basically just use the recent posts tracker). But this will change in the redesign so we will keep people's comments in mind.

S. Artesian
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May 21 2016 12:56

How can a library ever be "too big?"

Joseph Kay's picture
Joseph Kay
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May 21 2016 13:04
S. Artesian wrote:
How can a library ever be "too big?"

Maybe if you print it all out. Or this.

cactus9
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May 21 2016 13:12

I would definitely not be against more politics in the film etc threads. I never get too over analytical because I don't want people to think I'm a wanker although presumably the ship has already sailed on that one.

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May 21 2016 15:03
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I don't want people to think I'm a wanker although presumably the ship has already sailed on that one.

Hey you! Hilarious self deprecating one liners are my department around these here parts. Get orf moi land you treacherous, trespassing fucking asshole or I may have to start deprecating you.

cactus9
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May 21 2016 15:19
Noah Fence wrote:
Quote:
I don't want people to think I'm a wanker although presumably the ship has already sailed on that one.

Hey you! Hilarious self deprecating one liners are my department around these here parts. Get orf moi land you treacherous, trespassing fucking asshole or I may have to start deprecating you.

I actually can't think of a funny reply to that. Obviously I'm going to have to find myself a different niche.

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Noah Fence
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May 21 2016 15:59
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I actually can't think of a funny reply to that. Obviously I'm going to have to find myself a different niche.

Well, that's not too bad an effort. If you're really stuck you can always rely on your sexual failure or incontinence as a back up plan. Maybe both together? Or maybe not - I always find it difficult to get a hard-on when I've got the two bob bits!

cactus9
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May 21 2016 18:02
Noah Fence wrote:
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I actually can't think of a funny reply to that. Obviously I'm going to have to find myself a different niche.

Well, that's not too bad an effort. If you're really stuck you can always rely on your sexual failure or incontinence as a back up plan. Maybe both together? Or maybe not - I always find it difficult to get a hard-on when I've got the two bob bits!

You're offering me your second hand niche?

Anyway I think I'm taking this thread off topic.

Schmoopie's picture
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May 21 2016 19:09
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Though the order and content of the books is random and apparently completely meaningless, the inhabitants believe that the books contain every possible ordering... the vast majority of the books in this universe are pure gibberish, the library also must contain, somewhere, every coherent book ever written, or that might ever be written, and every possible permutation or slightly erroneous version of every one of those books.

Extract of the plot summary of The Library of Babel

Quote:
How can a library ever be "too big?"

If it stocks out of date telephone directories, or the equivalent of.

the button's picture
the button
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May 21 2016 19:38

Out of date telephone directories are very useful if you want to trace how an individual has moved around over the years. Same goes for out of date articles that help you discover for yourself how a body of thought has changed in response to critique and new circumstances.

Schmoopie's picture
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May 21 2016 20:15
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Out of date telephone directories are very useful if you want to trace how an individual has moved around over the years. Same goes for out of date articles that help you discover for yourself how a body of thought has changed...

True.

I'm really just annoyed because a few months ago I started looking at a journal posted here, entitled 'Libertarian Communist', I think. It had modernist artwork on the cover and I think it was first issued in the 1930's. I would like to have another look at but have been unable to find it again.

P.S. I've just had a more vigorous search and found out the reason I couldn't find the journal again is because it was actually entitled 'Vanguard'.

Sleeper
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May 21 2016 20:52

Of course it is. It's also my opinion at the time I posted it, and I would like to think these forums are big and now old enough to accept some straight on criticism at times. I haven't changed my opinion either smile

Ed wrote:
Sleeper wrote:
Let me tell you why libcom is wrong

1. The name is shit and wrong. It makes no sense to anyone but a few public school educated arseholes.

2. The analysis is wrong because it ignores working class people and their experiences.

3. The forums are shit, and wrong because no one but the stupid creators creators can be arsed with them.

4. Cutting up source work is what idiots do, well paid idiots to sabotage our claims to a better society.

Feel free to add your thoughts here

S. Artesian
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May 21 2016 22:49
Schmoopie wrote:
Quote:
How can a library ever be "too big?"

If it stocks out of date telephone directories, or the equivalent of.

Hmmmh.......no. Nobody forces you to read the telephone directories. You don't have to wade through the directories to find, say, on worker's strikes in the Hot Autumn in Italy.

syndicalist
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May 21 2016 23:03

All hail crumugonally posters! Power to the cranky older militants! F-u and have a nice day

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Steven.
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May 21 2016 23:56
Schmoopie wrote:
I'm really just annoyed because a few months ago I started looking at a journal posted here, entitled 'Libertarian Communist', I think. It had modernist artwork on the cover and I think it was first issued in the 1930's. I would like to have another look at but have been unable to find it again.

P.S. I've just had a more vigorous search and found out the reason I couldn't find the journal again is because it was actually entitled 'Vanguard'.

TBH even with a small website it would be hard to find content again if you forgot what it was called!

We also allow users to bookmark texts, so you can bookmark stuff like that. Also if it's a publication, you can always just look at our publications tag which has all of them in, and there aren't a huge number to look through

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Joseph Kay
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May 22 2016 10:05

This reminds me we should definitely have the ability to filter by multiple tags in the redesign. Used to be an 'arguments' thing in Drupal we had for that iirc.