monkeys: not capitalist

newyawka "They gonna eat your shoulders."
Posts: 2871 Joined: 13-10-05
Submitted by newyawka on 16 July, 2008 - 16:07.

or maybe they are. i'm not quite sure.

Quote:
one can get some clues as to how evolution prepared us for money from the burgeoning research that seeks to present animals with economic choices. To gain perspective on human financial decisions, one may ask, what would monkeys do?

Keith Chen and Marc Hauser at Yale University taught monkeys about resources that bear a strong resemblance to money. Monkeys don't care about money, per se, but they do care about marshmallows. (This already is a difference of gigantic proportions in that monkeys must learn about resource-exchange using something that is already a primary reinforcer - food - whereas humans can extend the range of their motivations to secondary reinforcers.) A resource (marshmallows) exchange task was introduced whereby pressing a lever would give another monkey a marshmallow; hence this was a task that involved a bit of altruism. Not only were monkeys taught about the game. Two specific monkeys were conditioned (entrained), such that one always pulled the lever for his monkey partner (thus being a very generous partner) and the other never pulled the lever for his partner (stingy). Then they let these conditioned monkeys play the game with other monkeys. Monkeys that played with the highly generous monkey figured it out and quickly took advantage of him. Monkeys that played with the stingy monkey also figured it out quickly and subsequently shunned or were aggressive toward him.

link

Zazaban "Anarcho-anarchist"
Posts: 155 Joined: 23-10-07
16 July, 2008 - 20:13

Capitalism just got pwned.

redboots
Posts: 47 Joined: 10-09-07
18 July, 2008 - 00:07

Thats interesting.

And we are clearly way better than monkeys so we should totally get over this capitalism nonsense.

What have we learned?

Capitalism is bad
Marshmallows are good
Humans rule monkeys

weeler "The wind that shakes Nathan Barley"
Posts: 6551 Joined: 25-09-05 Location: Dublin
18 July, 2008 - 00:13

Monkeys never advanced to a point of accumulation, they have nothing to tell us about ourselves really. Grow some thumbs, develop surplus and then we will talk.

anarchyjordan "banned"
Posts: 287 Joined: 21-07-07
18 July, 2008 - 00:23

well, according to these "scientist" fools -- since things are so damn black and white in their little world -- the poor victims of this cruel animal testing became what are apparently the only two conceivable prototypes for human behavior, greediness and generosity.
so that just shows how blinkered they are, with all the "primary and secondary reinforcers" that they feel like they have to give out to get people and monkeys to act as study objects.
as for capitalism, since i guess its scientists and sociologists can't just approach their fellow humans to talk to them and find out what they might have to say they'll have to keep some monkeys around for their studies at least as the system they're looking for some biological roots for merrily goes killing off whole species with pollution.

anarchyjordan "banned"
Posts: 287 Joined: 21-07-07
18 July, 2008 - 00:31
Weeler wrote:
Monkeys never advanced to a point of accumulation, they have nothing to tell us about ourselves really. Grow some thumbs, develop surplus and then we will talk.

sure, i guess if you're a marx-corpse-fucker all life can be determined by economic analysis, surplus and thumbs (for giving the thumbs up to the gladiators to kill the vanquished i guess) and so then yeah monkeys, never having advanced to this oh so advanced stage of pointless, stultifying accumulation, would probably be of no instructional value to humans, but i think their spontaneous kindness (when not 'conditioned (entrained)' to brutalize eachother) and keen eye for creative approaches to new situations (like the way they figured out how to 'shun and be aggressive' toward the stingy one and kick his ass, or 'take advantage' of the compulsively overgenerous one) are quite similar to unconditioned (unemployed) humans' treatment of each other.

Jess "The heart of a heartless world."
Posts: 2060 Joined: 26-11-04 Location: Brighton
18 July, 2008 - 00:31

Don't know where to start.....

Bob Savage "brrrapatista."
Posts: 1246 Joined: 15-01-07 Location: Bristol
18 July, 2008 - 00:31

why don't we have monkeys as slaves anyway?

or to be a bit more pc, monkey butlers. i'd like a pet monkey as it is. one that does stuff for you. sucks you off or tevz. should be good.

Bob Savage "brrrapatista."
Posts: 1246 Joined: 15-01-07 Location: Bristol
18 July, 2008 - 00:32

ooooh anarchyjordan entered the thread in the time i had this page open and delivered the goods. good to read your thoughts on the matter, sir.

weeler "The wind that shakes Nathan Barley"
Posts: 6551 Joined: 25-09-05 Location: Dublin
18 July, 2008 - 00:54
anarchyjordan wrote:
Weeler wrote:
Monkeys never advanced to a point of accumulation, they have nothing to tell us about ourselves really. Grow some thumbs, develop surplus and then we will talk.

sure, i guess if you're a marx-corpse-fucker all life can be determined by economic analysis, surplus and thumbs (for giving the thumbs up to the gladiators to kill the vanquished i guess) and so then yeah monkeys, never having advanced to this oh so advanced stage of pointless, stultifying accumulation, would probably be of no instructional value to humans, but i think their spontaneous kindness (when not 'conditioned (entrained)' to brutalize eachother) and keen eye for creative approaches to new situations (like the way they figured out how to 'shun and be aggressive' toward the stingy one and kick his ass, or 'take advantage' of the compulsively overgenerous one) are quite similar to unconditioned (unemployed) humans' treatment of each other.

Guy Debord hates you for shitting on his ideas. He told me.

anarchyjordan "banned"
Posts: 287 Joined: 21-07-07
18 July, 2008 - 00:57

no way he's number one on coprophile-a-thon every year. don't you watch fox?

weeler "The wind that shakes Nathan Barley"
Posts: 6551 Joined: 25-09-05 Location: Dublin
18 July, 2008 - 09:15

I live in Ireland, why would I watch your shitty sub-standard stations?

anarchyjordan "banned"
Posts: 287 Joined: 21-07-07
18 July, 2008 - 09:25

' The Christian resolve to find the world evil and ugly, has made the world evil and ugly.'
– Friedrich Nietzsche

anarchyjordan "banned"
Posts: 287 Joined: 21-07-07
18 July, 2008 - 09:29

i bet ireland's nice. all those hills and grass... can't smoke it tho...redheaded chicks... everyone drunk... clean air... they're called gardai instead of police... guinness... bailey's... probably has downsides too.. soccer nuts... religious wars... englishmen... tourists... expensive everything all the time... but i've never been

weeler "The wind that shakes Nathan Barley"
Posts: 6551 Joined: 25-09-05 Location: Dublin
18 July, 2008 - 09:34

Its ok. I hate the non-industrialised parts mostly. I'm sure they would be pretty if I hadnt grown up holidaying around them. Your situationist fetish and overuse of the ellipse makes me think I'm talking to an 18 year old me, I want to tell you everything will be ok for you some day.

wink

anarchyjordan "banned"
Posts: 287 Joined: 21-07-07
18 July, 2008 - 09:47

well i'm sure everything will turn out ok, even if we don't have a revolution or anything, life is fun!
but i'm sorry you were so awesome when you were 18 and apparently are just ok now. Mr. T i pity the fool that doesn't like the non-industrialized parts!! you should take a vay-kay out to death valley. if you were ever like me you'd be into it. of course it is kinda squeezed between a nuclear test site and two military bases, it's awesome anyway

cantdocartwheels "in the aeroplane over the sea"
Posts: 1796 Joined: 15-03-04 Location: London then off to Brighton
18 July, 2008 - 10:10

and bringing the thread back on topic

The decadent ways of the monkey bourgeoisie

anarchyjordan "banned"
Posts: 287 Joined: 21-07-07
18 July, 2008 - 10:27

yeah so them monkeys man.. like i say, victims. immobilized by privilege, immobilized by drugs and restraints and conditioning devices, same principle

BB "Insurectionists suck donkey cock!"
Posts: 1500 Joined: 12-08-04 Location: Brighton
18 July, 2008 - 10:59
Bob Savage wrote:
i'd like a pet monkey as it is. one that does stuff for you. sucks you off

You'd need to knock it's teeth out first or feed it mars bars until they fell out. Or maybe you wouldn't...

Bob Savage "brrrapatista."
Posts: 1246 Joined: 15-01-07 Location: Bristol
18 July, 2008 - 11:10

that takes half the fun out.

Anarcho "Raise the Black Flag!"
Posts: 293 Joined: 22-10-06
18 July, 2008 - 14:17

Sorry, is this surprising? As Kropotkin stressed, co-operative behaviour is a product of social life and "selfish" behaviour is penalised. As such, "Monkeys that played with the stingy monkey also figured it out quickly and subsequently shunned or were aggressive toward him" comes as no surprise, given that mutual aid implies the development of feelings of fairness. As I discuss in my introduction and evaluation to Kropotkin's Mutual Aid.

dee
Posts: 1011 Joined: 24-04-08
18 July, 2008 - 17:13
Anarcho wrote:
Sorry, is this surprising?

Bob Savage wanting to sexually oppress monkeys? That is very surprising. And disturbing. just put your frustration into your music Bob - leave the monkeys alone.

Bob Savage "brrrapatista."
Posts: 1246 Joined: 15-01-07 Location: Bristol
18 July, 2008 - 21:43

Okay, I'll make an R&B love song to a monkey. it's going to be really Bristolian and really fucking filthy.

dee
Posts: 1011 Joined: 24-04-08
19 July, 2008 - 20:23

Show them some love - historically they've been repressed...
http://www.thisishartlepool.co.uk/history/thehartlepoolmonkey.asp

thugarchist "Warning: This poster is recuperating our struggle!!!11"
Posts: 4114 Joined: 26-11-06 Location: Seattle, WA US of A
19 July, 2008 - 23:09
Bob Savage wrote:
Okay, I'll make an R&B love song to a monkey. it's going to be really Bristolian and really fucking filthy.

anarchyjordan "banned"
Posts: 287 Joined: 21-07-07
20 July, 2008 - 04:42

monkeys and dogs are far superior to humans at socializing, i'll tell you that much. When i walk down the street and see dogs greeting eachother with so much greater ease than people, i think to myself, wow, we are really fucked

thugarchist "Warning: This poster is recuperating our struggle!!!11"
Posts: 4114 Joined: 26-11-06 Location: Seattle, WA US of A
20 July, 2008 - 04:53
anarchyjordan wrote:
monkeys and dogs are far superior to humans at socializing, i'll tell you that much. When i walk down the street and see dogs greeting eachother with so much greater ease than people, i think to myself, wow, we are really fucked



roll eyes

888 ""I think I'm having an overdose and so's my wife""
Posts: 458 Joined: 30-09-03 Location: Seattle
20 July, 2008 - 20:41