Organising in non Profit organisations
Jun 8 2008 02:48
Firstly as this is my firsy post Hello everyone (Ive read for a bit but never posted)
I was wondering what people think are the possibilities for worker organisation within non profit organisations. Ive worked (more or less volunteered) for one before and the hours were ridiclous, pay virtually non existant, and conditions genrally very poor.Although I did enjoy my time there and the managers of the operation were all very nice.
As the organisation wasnt run for a profit (it was helping children) the justification for the pay etc was that they couldnt afford to pay the workers more, which was probably true, but this surely means that the ability to strike for better pay is taken away?
If an organisation cannot afford better conditions for its workers surely this limits what the workers of that organisation can protest for?
Also Ive noticed the general attitude on here towars voluntary, unpaid work to be quite negative ("middle class do gooders etc")
while i recognise that volunteering or charity work is by no means a solution to the worlds problems and it is a problem when people suggest that it is (ie. Geldoff)
surely helping people is nonetheless a good thing, the same way if u helped a friend with problems that is a good thing
Thoughts?
Jun 8 2008 08:39
#2
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I was wondering what people think are the possibilities for worker organisation within non profit organisations.
Fairly difficult. However we've got people on here who've been involved in organising at well known UK charities, hopefully they'll turn up on this thread.
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As the organisation wasnt run for a profit (it was helping children) the justification for the pay etc was that they couldnt afford to pay the workers more, which was probably true, but this surely means that the ability to strike for better pay is taken away?
If an organisation cannot afford better conditions for its workers surely this limits what the workers of that organisation can protest for?
That justification is given in just about any job - certainly in the public sector, and probably a lot of private sector jobs as well. Plenty of organisations say this, are forced into paying higher wages somehow, then amazingly continue to make a profit. Additionally, workers should be concerned with their own conditions, not the organisation they work for - whether it's the state, a charity or a private company.
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Also Ive noticed the general attitude on here towars voluntary, unpaid work to be quite negative ("middle class do gooders etc")
I don't remember seeing much about that but it wouldn't surprise me. I'd say there's a definite practical issue if a lot of your co-workers can afford to work for free, or are just doing a stint for a year before taking a high paying job - but this is something that applies not just to non-profits. Additionally, charities, education, the NHS all encourage a kind of corporatism - where workers identify with the interests of their employers to some extent and - and this works against disruption and strike action.
Jun 8 2008 08:50
#3
There's also the issue of charities doing for cheap what the government used to do much better, and paid better wages for. If the service is necessary the money will come from somewhere (that's what grants etc. are for) and also we have to realize that the less non-profit workers fight back, the more work that was formerly done at decent conditions will be done by non-profits under worse conditions.
Jun 8 2008 11:57
#4
Get a proper job you middle-class hippy 
Nah seriously though, I'm with Oliver on this. I'm also with some health, day care service and council workers on it that I've met/know and who regard voluntary workers and NGO's who facilitate greater cuts in public services by providing services for free as little better than scabs. Of course we need to do a lot more in terms of education and awareness raising on how 'voluntary' work undercuts wages, terms and conditions and facilitates attacks on the social wage before we start breaking legs
Jun 8 2008 14:38
#5
Bear in mind that almost all these organisations are publicly funded in whole or in part. A vital source of pressure, therefore, is the funding agency and public-sector workers in the same area.
To take an example, it would seem wrong to most people that care assistants working for, say, a 'non-profit' hospice, should be paid less, treated worse or denied the same opportunity to be represented by a union as care assistants working in a public hospital. The hospice workers would have natural allies in the hospital workers, and the health authority contracting with the hospice or paying case-by-case for care would be a natural target for campaigning.
Jun 8 2008 17:22
#6
Quote:
As the organisation wasnt run for a profit (it was helping children) the justification for the pay etc was that they couldnt afford to pay the workers more, which was probably true, but this surely means that the ability to strike for better pay is taken away?
If an organisation cannot afford better conditions for its workers surely this limits what the workers of that organisation can protest for?
Quote:
That justification is given in just about any job - certainly in the public sector, and probably a lot of private sector jobs as well. Plenty of organisations say this, are forced into paying higher wages somehow, then amazingly continue to make a profit. Additionally, workers should be concerned with their own conditions, not the organisation they work for - whether it's the state, a charity or a private company.
But suppose this was, speaking hypothectically, the case then what?
and workers shouldnt be concerned with an organisation at all even if it does some good for people? Surely they should be concerend with the people they are helping no? If a non profit organisation running an orpahange say goes under and all those kids are then moved out onto the streets the workers shouldnt give a fuck?
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Also Ive noticed the general attitude on here towars voluntary, unpaid work to be quite negative ("middle class do gooders etc")
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I don't remember seeing much about that but it wouldn't surprise me. I'd say there's a definite practical issue if a lot of your co-workers can afford to work for free, or are just doing a stint for a year before taking a high paying job - but this is something that applies not just to non-profits. Additionally, charities, education, the NHS all encourage a kind of corporatism - where workers identify with the interests of their employers to some extent and - and this works against disruption and strike action.
so would you say volunteer work is bad full stop?
Jun 8 2008 17:34
#7
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and workers shouldnt be concerned with an organisation at all even if it does some good for people? Surely they should be concerend with the people they are helping no? If a non profit organisation running an orpahange say goes under and all those kids are then moved out onto the streets the workers shouldnt give a fuck?
Organisations don't do good. Workers do on their behalf - although from my experiences in education and health, usually people trying to do anything decent have to work against most aspects of the organisation rather than for it.
If a non-profit organisation running an orphanage goes under, then it's most likely they'd go into receivership and taken over by a council, central government, or a bigger non-profit. If you were working for such a non-profit and they tried to slash your wages by 30% because "otherwise we'll have to chuck the kids out of the street" would you just take it?
Jun 8 2008 17:45
#8
catch wrote:
Quote:
and workers shouldnt be concerned with an organisation at all even if it does some good for people? Surely they should be concerend with the people they are helping no? If a non profit organisation running an orpahange say goes under and all those kids are then moved out onto the streets the workers shouldnt give a fuck?Organisations don't do good. Workers do on their behalf - although from my experiences in education and health, usually people trying to do anything decent have to work against most aspects of the organisation rather than for it.
If a non-profit organisation running an orphanage goes under, then it's most likely they'd go into receivership and taken over by a council, central government, or a bigger non-profit. If you were working for such a non-profit and they tried to slash your wages by 30% because "otherwise we'll have to chuck the kids out of the street" would you just take it?
maybe im extremely naive but I dont belive that no organisations do good full stop, u do get grass roots organisations based around helping people.
and I also dont think all organisations get money from the government, maybe in Western countries but in the 3rd world im not so sure
As for the slahing wages thing, I see your point but if hypothetically that was the case, the kids would go out on the street then i suppose iw would leave me in Limbo
While I was working for the organisation I mentioned we had our free time cut because they said with too many hours off the kids wernt supervised enough and at the time I sort of accepted it thinking it made sense but now Im not so sure
but say that was accurate, the kids wouldnt be supervised, cared for enough with the free time we were having SURELY SOMEONE GETS FUCKED EITHER WAY, EITHER THE WORKERS OR THE KIDS?
Jun 8 2008 17:49
#9
D wrote:
While I was working for the organisation I mentioned we had our free time cut because they said with too many hours off the kids wernt supervised enough and at the time I sort of accepted it thinking it made sense but now Im not so sure
They could've hired more staff.
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but say that was accurate, the kids wouldnt be supervised, cared for enough with the free time we were having SURELY SOMEONE GETS FUCKED EITHER WAY, EITHER THE WORKERS OR THE KIDS?
Usually that's the case yes, that's why it's hard to organise in jobs where you're looking after people - and the way capitalism is organised sets different groups of workers against each other.
Jun 8 2008 18:00
#10
catch wrote:
D wrote:
While I was working for the organisation I mentioned we had our free time cut because they said with too many hours off the kids wernt supervised enough and at the time I sort of accepted it thinking it made sense but now Im not so sureThey could've hired more staff.
Quote:
but say that was accurate, the kids wouldnt be supervised, cared for enough with the free time we were having SURELY SOMEONE GETS FUCKED EITHER WAY, EITHER THE WORKERS OR THE KIDS?Usually that's the case yes, that's why it's hard to organise in jobs where you're looking after people - and the way capitalism is organised sets different groups of workers against each other.
and if they genuinely couldnt afford to hire more staff or couldnt find more? (even if this is raely the case)
On a whole I agree with what your saying though, although I still dont think volunteering is always bad, it helps a lot of people (on an individual basis) and the people involved in it normally have good intentions
Im doing some volunteer work now and am trying to critically examine my actions! lol
Jun 8 2008 22:47
#11
The article A Critique Of NGOism by an anarchist from Aotearoa / New Zealand might be of interest to you - it's partly about her experiences working for an NGO. You can read it in the .pdf download of Imminent Rebellion 9 at http://rebelpress.org.nz/imminent.html#ir9
Jun 9 2008 06:29
#12
The use of guilt by non-profits to make people give up their non-work lives is horrid. I've seen it destroy people's marriages - it's not pretty.
Also check out The Revolution Will Not Be Funded . It's not mentioned in this article, and can't find anything right now, but I've also seen some good INCITE! stuff that shows how the Non-Profit Industrial Complex (at least in America) evolved out of the vanguardist groups of the 60's and 70's, and still maintain that heirarchical relationship with the "masses" that they intend to "save"
Jun 9 2008 15:34
#13
I agree with most of the posts here in response to 'D' but just wanted to say that of course peoples desire to help others in need without reward is often a genuine and very human response to all sorts of situations. Unfortunately it is a human charateristic which is severely exploited by capitalism and as the saying goes if you cannot look after yourself (and fight for your own interests ) how can you effectively look after others?
We perhaps also need to understand and distinguish between the everyday unpaid self help which goes on throughout society in both an organised and spontaneous way and the takeover and organisation of this in the big establishment 'volantary' paid sector.
Jun 9 2008 16:38
#14
Thanks for the replies every1, that article was really great. Im certainly looking at the organisation I was with before differently. I would love to find out if the owners of it were making substantial money, considering we were getting paid about 20p an hour ! Also it was definetly structured in a hierachal manner, even though at the time I defended this and convinced myself it wasnt too bad on the basis it was run to help the kids.
Although I still do think the actaul act of volunteering can be very liberating, as, at least for me, it allows u to look at work in a different light. And the stuff im doing now is very non hierachal and grassroots based (at least it seems
Jun 9 2008 18:51
#15
I've read The Revolution Will Not Be Funded and I'd just warn you not to be too excited about it - it's really really liberal. There are a couple of interesting bits of it, but when I read it it just made me grumpy to be honest...
Jun 9 2008 19:39
#16
I was talking about the first article if you were talking to me, the revolution will not be funded was OK well but I preffered the first one
Jun 9 2008 21:30
#17
Well, I haven't actually *read* The Revolution Will Not Be Funded...I had just gone to a workshop that INCITE! put on with the same name and I thought they did a good job of criticizing the way that non-profits are set up and all that. With the caveat that recognizing the problem with non-profits doesn't necessarily lead to an endorsement of anarcho-communism, I enjoyed it.
Jun 11 2008 14:51
#18
I was responding to redemma's reccomendation of it, not to you, D 
redemma - For sure, I didnt read it expecting it to put forward an anarchist-communist view (although that would've been nice) but the whole book basically (with a couple of exceptions) consisted of making excuses for capital and the state, and talked about how both could be good, its just that NGOs aren't using them right / that they are currently dominated by white men. Also, there was lots of stuff in the book about how wonderful lobbying is and how both capital and the state HAVE TO benefit society if we ask them to nicely...
Jun 13 2008 14:46
#19
the iww has recent history in organizing non-profits. i've organized in a few, and wrote an article about our struggle and fight against the union. private message me if you want to chat about organizing.
Jun 14 2008 23:53
#20
Here is a workplace report from a Greenpeace employee from my blog:
http://kimmuller.wordpress.com/2008/02/17/good-guys-dont-wear-green/
p.s. It is of course in swedish.
My thoughts: it they can't afford to pay workers more, have they opened the books to show you this is so? Non-profits are usually "for-profit:" for a certain layer of management.