proposal for reading group: capital vol. i

I don't want to put you off, but why did you decide for this edition? Isn't it based on the old English translation by Moore & Aveling? A lot of people say the newer Ben Fowkes' translation (published by Penguin Classics) is better.

Not quite. The still unfinished "complete" edition (Marx-Engels Gesamtausgabe, MEGA) is 122 volumes. It had to be reduced to 122 volumes from more than 170.

There is also a reading guide by Simon Clarke. Hans Ehrbar has synthesized his own translation with lots of annotations and comments, and there is also "student edition" of it available. But I haven't read neither, so I can't recommend using them. I do recommend, though, reading I. I. Rubin's Essays on Marx's Theory of Value, perhaps after the first three chapters of Capital. And just in case you haven't noticed it on libcom yet, David Harvey is doing video lectures on the first volume, which might be helpful, but I didn't like his presentation of the first chapter.

I'd certainly be interested in taking part in a reading group. I have the penguin edition with the introduction by Mandel. I tried to give Capital a go once before, but it was so tedious to read completely unaided. I definitely think I would benefit from discussing the ideas with others.

I am slowly trying to get a reading group of all three volume of capital going on my website www.theoryandpractice.org.uk

Was going to do it as a web forum thing and try to start in at least a couple of months when I have done some proper publicity. I think word has to be spread far and wide before starting otherwise only a few people get involved and it all dies out pretty quickly, at least judging by past attempts!

I've read Capital 1. but wouldn't mind going through again - although I'm half way through the Grundrisse at the moment and would want to finish that first. If it goes ahead, I'd like to do it alongside the II Rubin.

I've also read vol1 and flicked through 2 and 3. Got 2/3's through the Grundrisse then lost steam...

Are people up for doing it through my forums? If word is spread far and wide I'm sure this will take off.

Realistically, if it's not happening somewhere that I already frequent regularly, then I'll keep forgetting to check in and miss the discussions. Having said that I'm biased, and also not good at keeping up with reading groups anyway.

There would be a lot more passing traffic if the group was on libcom I guess. Would it be possible to set up a separate sub-forum rather than just using a single thread?

Also would be good to design a decent flyer to hand out?

I'm also up for this, whether on libcom or elsewhere. My only resevation is how long you intend this to continue as if your copy won't arrive for at least a month, Spartacus, we may not get through it too soon. I'm mnot being impatient, it's just that I'm off on my travels before too long and I'd hate to start and miss the end!

Maybe it would be good to follow the structure of those David Harvey video lectures. Then we have a timetable set out and lots of material to discuss.

What do people think to this idea?

And when shall we start?

It might also be worth looking at this thread:
http://libcom.org/forums/feedback-content/suggestion-creation-sub-forum-reading-groups-24082008

Well I'm all for starting asap, I'll just have to rush schopenhauer. I like the idea of limiting the time for reading and discussing on each chapter otherwise I think there'll be a lot of theoretical speculation which might be better off after having read the whole book, rather than more specific point of discussion brought up by each chapter.

Well if we stick to the structure of the Harvey lectures it splits the book into 13 sections and gives a week for each which doesn't sound to unreasonable? This will be the 3rd time I've read it and it's not as hard going as some people make out.

Starting in 3-4 weeks time?

Whats the structure of the Harvey lectures?

Maybe two weeks for each section? Including reading and discussing it, seems like one week would be a bit short.

2 weeks would be fine for me also. But then the project would take 6 months to do! But a slower pace would make things easier.

ok so two weeks per section it is then and starting mid september?

i'd say chapter 3 is probably the hardest, but once you're past that you're laughing - it's worth spending as much time as it takes to properly understand the first three chapters as you can run into trouble later on if you just breeze lightly through this stuff, although as you do move on through the rest of the book (and the other volumes), there is a lot more light shined on the concepts that are introduced in the first three chapters and they gradually reveal themselves more fully as a result of this, so conversely don't worry too much if you don't have what you feel is complete knowledge of these at first - you can only really get that full knowledge of the stuff in the first chapters once you've read the whole thing (and the other volumes). a lot of the stuff in this early part seems like it's just marx asserting things without providing any explanation or reasoning why he makes these assertions, and you just have to grasp onto these things without really understanding why, these reasons are then only really revealed further on in the book (and the other volumes)

i was surprised by both how engrossing and enjoyable it is to read, and it flows very well and logically as it moves on, it's almost like a mystery/who dunnit novel in the way things are unfolded & revealed as you move through the chapters, the literary references in it are also very illuminating and an added bonus

the style of writing changes quite a lot from section to section, sometimes a dour accountancy style and the next something wonderful like this

I'd be up for starting reading the last week in september, then discussing starting two weeks after??

Perhaps we should start spreading the word around..

Er, Has this one died before it's began??

I am down for this and agree with following the David Harvey lectures' structure. It would be great to have a sub-forum and a sticky that recommends posters actually read the assigned section (my preference).

So are starting this now? As in we finish chapter one and two by Monday 22nd September?

FWIW this is good for me.

Concur with two weeks and the harvey structure. Monday 22nd is better IMO.

I'll try to keep my eye on this and chip in if I can - I'm actually halfway through Volume 2 at the moment, but have been meaning to have a look at David Harvey's lectures.

There are several guides for readers available (eg Marx's Capital by Ben Fine and Alfredo Saad-Filho and How to read Marx's Capital by Stephen Shapiro, both published by Pluto), which can be useful to refer to if you're finding certain passages quite dense or obtuse. The caveat is that many will be pushing their own particular take - eg the writer's grand solution to the transformation problem - but this doesn't usually interfere with the basic concepts.

The Fowkes transaltion is miles better than the Moore-Aveling version. It doesn't just update the language into a more modern and less Victorian style of English but restores whole sentences removed from the previous edition which were removed on the authority of Engels who felt that they may have been too obscure for English readers. Additionally, the new (though by now over thirty years old) edition of Capital includes all of Marx's copious footnotes and references, plus the crucial tract on the Results of the Immediate Process of Production.

I read the old version of Captial Vol I several times, both in its American Modern Library edition and the abridged McLellan version put out by Oxford University Press. The Penguin-Fowkes edition, which I am reading now, is a massive advancement - and I don't speak much German so I',m not exaclty an authority on these matters!

However, even the Fowkes reportedly has its limitations. A Marxian scholar with whom I used to correspond (but who sadly died recently) said that even this edition pales next to original German book - and even the French text, which I believe Marx translated himself.

Nevertheless, I'd be up for reading along too.

The French edition was translated by J. Roy, but Marx substantially revised it.