Tightening American gun-control laws?

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Steven.
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Feb 21 2018 03:23
Tightening American gun-control laws?

Split from here:

Juan Conatz wrote:
Steven. wrote:
(That said I still think these walkouts are pointless, because supporting tighter gun control laws is a dead-end which at best just puts more power in the hands of the US state, which unfortunately causes the deaths of far more people than lone gunmen)

Maybe this warrants a different thread, but what do you mean by this? Because there are something like 10,000 gun related deaths in the U.S. every year. The US state isn't directly killing that many people in the U.S. in a year.

Why is gun control a dead end? Is there just as many murders in places with tight gun control, such as the UK, as the US?

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Hieronymous
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Feb 21 2018 05:45
Quote:
Why is gun control a dead end? Is there just as many murders in places with tight gun control, such as the UK, as the US?

Or Japan?

Mike Harman
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Feb 21 2018 09:52

There are an estimated 2-300m guns in the US, controls on purchasers of new guns via background checks will have a very marginal effect on this, as will restriction of types of guns. Not exactly against either of those though just don't think they count as 'gun control'.

The next option would be making the possession of guns illegal that is currently legal, either by type of gun or by profiles of gun owners. You could have an amnesty, but otherwise the only way to enforce that would be car searches and house raids, those are not going to be enforced consistently.

The UK and Japan don't only have low gun control but historically low to zero gun ownership. So comparing them to the US seems fruitless, unless someone has another idea to render 300m guns unusable. UK police don't carry guns as standard, meaning they shoot much less people per year. But they also kill people via beatings and 'restraint'. No one's talking about disarming cops, in fact they're talking about arming teachers.

redschlog
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Feb 21 2018 13:54

Gun control, legislation, reformism. State interference. Some dodgy quote from Marx. Something misleading about insurrection. Foam. Seriously though, UKland hasn't always had gun control or zero gun ownership. Read your old Sherlock Holmes and there's a fair to middling amount of gun play. Even in comics from the '70s, the burglar wielding a piece wasn't seen as unrealistic. Britain's current attitude to guns is the result of a century of state legislation and public campaigning. There are 300 million guns in the US. So do nothing? On the contrary, start now and do as much as possible as quickly as possible. There is nothing progressive, nothing pro-working class, nothing anti-state about gun culture. Ask yourself - will there be guns in communism? Anyone who's got half a brain will say "fuck no"!

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Juan Conatz
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Feb 21 2018 14:09

Not referring to anything that's been posted so far here, but I've found the recent American leftist fascination of gun culture to be unconvincing and a blind acceptance of a mixture of gun industry talking points and very specific American fantasies.

I don't know the answer to how 300 million guns will be given up, but it seems that on a site which imagines an ideal world mostly theorized by minority currents within long-defunct European social movements, that a United States with gun ownership and laws similar to the rest of the world could also be imagined.

Mike Harman
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Feb 21 2018 14:14

There have been gun controls in the UK since 1903 starting with pistols.

It was tightened further in 1996 after Dunblane to around current levels:

Quote:
162,198 handguns had been surrendered and a total of £89 million had been paid in compensation;[190] 748 cases of compensation remained to be settled.[191] The vast majority of surrendered handguns were destroyed, though some 4,600 considered to be of historic interest have been kept for museums.[192]
115. The National Audit Office reported in February 1999 on the operation of the hand-in scheme and the payment of compensation, and the Public Accounts Committee subsequently delivered its verdict on the administration of the scheme.[193] Initial police figures had estimated 187,000 handguns in private hands:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/164402.stm

In a population of ~60 million, 200k guns is very far off the more or less 1-1 guns to people ratio in the US.

And I don't think anyone said do nothing, on the other thread I discussed trying to disrupt gun manufacture which the US does in spades, but this rarely gets discussed. But that would mean attacking the arms industry itself, an essential component of the US economy, not just adding additional paperwork at Walmart.

Jason Cortez
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Feb 22 2018 19:32

there re are an estimated 2-300m guns in the US, controls on purchasers of new guns via background checks will have a very marginal effect on this, as will restriction of types of guns. Not exactly against either of those though just don't think they count as 'gun control'.

The next option would be making the possession of guns illegal that is currently legal, either by type of gun or by profiles of gun owners. You could have an amnesty. "

Australia did just this and it was largely successful.
Of course Australia doesn't have quite the same culture of gun ownership or the 2nd amendment.
Here some easy reading around the subject. Which shows that it is difficult to establish a scientific causal relationship with gun control, the correlation are strongly suggestive of reduce prevalence being a major factor in reducing homicides.

VOX
How stuff works

FactCheck.org
FactCheck.org

DevastateTheAvenues
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Feb 22 2018 23:59

While tightened gun control laws regarding sales from licensed buyers to individuals might not have a big effect on the massive number of guns in the US, if we go international in our outlook and focus on private sales it could have some downstream effects on the leak of guns from the US to other parts of the Americas, especially Mexico. Straw, secondhand sales of guns that are then brought over the border are a significant source of guns in Mexico (though notably not the only one; the other major sources are incompetent or downright corrupt police and military officials).

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Croy
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Mar 9 2018 19:49

I have heard revolutionaries argue that we should keep guns legal and shit because we need it come the revolution etc and illegalising it means more state power. I think this is complete and utter shite. Not only are there lots of innocent members of the class dying at the hands of utter fucking nut jobs but we are at an all time low of class struggle in the west at least. I would give more credence to their argument if there was more potential for any attempted insurrection to go anywhere but the reality is we are absolutely nowhere fucking near that point, and until we are, we are literally just killing ourselves.