Trad Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy

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R Totale
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Apr 18 2019 20:42
Trad Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy

Just asking for any good reading recommendations on this stuff - I feel like I have a fairly solid grasp on what Protestant fundamentalist reactionaries are about, your Billy Graham/Pat Robertson/Jerry Falwell crowd, but I feel like I've seen Traditionalist Catholicism crop up more as a thing in recent times, and I don't really "get" it? Like, I understand it's very important to Rees-Mogg's worldview, and also central to Steve Bannon's, but I don't really understand it as a movement. Can anyone recommend any good reading on the matter?
Tangentially related, on the subject of Christian-but-not-Protestant denominations, just learned that there's apparently been a whole lot of controversy in Eastern Orthodox communities about Matt Heimbach and the TWP trying to recruit there, and to link Orthodoxy and white supremacy, flying "Orthodoxy or death" banners at Charlottesville and so on - again, any guides to this subject would be welcome because it's pretty mystifying to me. I guess I can kind of see how it makes sense if you're into Duginism and just really really like Russian stuff, but also trying to link your politics to Eastern Orthodoxy in a culture where virtually no-one follows that denomination seems like a really weird choice to make.

sherbu-kteer
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Apr 23 2019 14:30

The Wikipedia article on them is actually reasonably good. The common thread between traditionalist Catholics (and I guess some Eastern Orthodox converts) and the far-right is hatred of the modern world and all the values they perceive as being associated with it. The core of Catholic traditionalism is opposition to Vatican II and its legacy, they see it as having introduced reforms in the Catholic Church that admit heresies. They want to go back to the days of mandatory oaths against modernism. They viscerally hate Pope Francis (though will couch their words when speaking in public so as not to be seen as contradicting papal authority) and believe he's more or less some kind of leftist or liberal or something. His (relatively, for the Catholic Church) pro-refugee, pro-tolerance sentiments terrify them and leave them looking for omens in flocks of seagulls.

Some of the traditionalists are just bog standard mainstream right-wingers who are mobilised on the grounds of being Catholic. The 'pro-life' American Catholic movement pretty much counts as this, they're not way deep in obscure theological tracts or anything but boy howdy do they hate the homosexuals and abortions. The most extreme of the traditionalists become what's called sedevacantists (sede vacant = Latin for 'seat vacant') and deny that the pope is the real pope. Mel Gibson's dad is one of these people. Most don't go this far though as slavish dedication to church authority is very important to them for fear of God striking them down. In between these two poles are the Mogg-like people with their elitism, ultra-conservatism and weird fixation on music and architecture.

I will try and find some articles for you but it's a broad topic -- were you looking for info on what the traditionalists believe in general, or merely as it relates to right wing politics?

R Totale wrote:
I guess I can kind of see how it makes sense if you're into Duginism and just really really like Russian stuff, but also trying to link your politics to Eastern Orthodoxy in a culture where virtually no-one follows that denomination seems like a really weird choice to make.

I don't think this a problem for them. Fascists love obscure religious sects, heaps of them are into neopaganism which is infinitely more obscure than Eastern Orthodoxy. In fact the hermetic aspect of Eastern Orthodoxy is probably a big selling point

R Totale's picture
R Totale
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Apr 23 2019 18:35
sherbu-kteer wrote:
I will try and find some articles for you but it's a broad topic -- were you looking for info on what the traditionalists believe in general, or merely as it relates to right wing politics?

Thanks for all that! I guess I have a passing nerdy interest in this stuff in general, but was mainly interested in how it ties in to the contemporary right. I don't know if Rees-Mogg is representative of anything beyond himself, but Bannon's definitely a strategic thinker and it seems like this stuff is kind of tied into his vision, stuff like this and this I guess. I feel like I've seen it in other places - does anyone know what, if any, religious affiliation the Christchurch shooter had? I suppose the whole thing is very compatible with the whole "white ISIS" wing of the alt-right, like I get the impression there's been something of a backlash among some people against the "degeneracy" of 4chan/8chan-type culture and I can see how this stuff might appeal to far-righters looking for something more wholesome than what most of the alt-right has to offer. I think.

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I don't think this a problem for them. Fascists love obscure religious sects, heaps of them are into neopaganism which is infinitely more obscure than Eastern Orthodoxy. In fact the hermetic aspect of Eastern Orthodoxy is probably a big selling point

Yeah, I guess, there's still something about it that kind of tickles me, like "We must uphold the faith and traditions of our people! [practices a faith that has no relevance whatsoever to 99% of their neighbours and would probably be regarded as blasphemy by the more devout ones]"