Abolish restaurants

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Quote: "Restaurants aren't strategic.

Quote: They aren't a hub of value creation."

No, but they could be.

Consider our options:

1) Law
2) Individual talent
3) Organisation

The most obvious explanation as to why restaurants are still valuable and desirable in spite of all the above is describable in one word: Chefs.

Whatever you think of the individuals, from Graham Kerr in my youth to Gordon Ramsay thirty years later, the restaurant has shown itself to be the venue for self-expression of a legitimate, artistic form, via the Chef.

Human individual talent is not extinguished by the restaurant, per se. If you really believe it is, I would need to refer you to the recent Gordon Ramsay TV series where he visited failing restaurants around the country to try and turn them round. Then we could continue the debate.

Individual talent is only one of the three options open to us in response to the situation being described.

But there is something else I want to add before continuing.

The fundamental problem with the above is the portrayal of the customer as part of the process of oppression. The author is far, far too quick to align the customer with the boss against the worker.

Let me illustrate this with a question: *where is the opportunity for individual flair from the customer?*

The author describes a problem that is created by customers but no effort has been made to consider a solution that might also be created by customers. The author is too quick to draw a conclusion which absolves them of their own responsibility.

Now that the gauntlet has been thrown down, let us get serious.

One of the options that is available to us is unions, as the author fully describes, and these are a type of organisation of course, as in option 3. Option 1 however has not been considered, so what if it was a law that restaurants had to be set up as Community Interest Companies. That is to say, instead of competing to make a profit for the boss to spend (on himself or the business at his choice) the restaurant now competes to remain in business and provide jobs for the future.

I've no more experience or understanding of a CIC than you and so you are just as capable of imagining the benfits in long-term thinking, in job security, in market experimentation and differentiation as I am, I am sure.

At a stroke restaurants would become strategic (if it was shown that they had not been before, as the author asserts).

Finally as an alternative contribution to the third type of organisation, what if the government made the effort to utilise restaurants for direct distribution of food? Imagine a restaurant that found itself uncompetitive. Such a restaurant could apply to the government to become a distributor. It would be low-status work - the food might be basic and simple for instance - and the clients might be the unemployed or public workers. This might reduce risk and might encourage less greedy, more longer-term entrepreneurs. It might also encourage a more healthy lifestyle among claimants and others at risk, through regular, wholesome eating.

Restaurants would then be a hub of value creation, would they not?

I dont dispute the points that the author makes and I strongly applaud the effort that has gone into making them. The difficulty is, and the danger is, that it boilds down to a Micawber-like observation: The difference between happiness and misery is the difference between a steady manageable work-pace with a co-operative inter-dependence of unequals, as against too much work, or too little. And who is to say which of the latter is worse?

The struggle for restaurant workers is certainly NOT for a world without workers. The struggle for restaurant workers is the same as the struggle for workers everywhere - it is NEVER to avoid work, it is ALWAYS for the most meaningful work possible...

mc@mmdl.co.uk

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i only read the last 2 sentences but i disagree grin

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I think you completely missed the point of Abolish Restaurants, as well as the perspective from which it is coming. May I suggest you read the other comic on prole.info "Work . Community . Politics . War" to get a quick idea of the political position it's coming from.

When it says, "Restaurants aren't strategic.They aren't the hub of value creation..." It means that restaurants are not a central sector on which all others depend. Abolish Restaurants is not claiming that if there was a sudden rise in restaurant worker militancy, the capitalist system would be in crisis. It isn't strategic, in the sense that we shouldn't all go try to get jobs in restaurants and cause problems so the the system will topple. More strategic sectors are things like oil and gas refining, and transportation (not that we should all go work in refineries or trucking). Anyway strategic is about how we can destroy it. Our goal isn't to make vibrant businesses. Business is the enemy.

You're Community Interest Companies are social-democratic nonsense. If they ever actually became widespread (which is highly doubtful) they would be miserable to work at.

The point is not that no creativity or individual talent exists in a restaurant. The point is that all creativity and talent of the workers is alienated and used to make money for our bosses. I don't care if the bosses have a legitimate avenue for artistic expression. Fuck art. Fuck legitimacy. And fuck them!

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Quote:
too much work, or too little. And who is to say which of the latter is worse?

I am, too much work sucks balls.

Hope that helps smile

Joined: 11-08-07

Hi Quint, thanks for taking the time to reply. I take your point that I probably did not know the reason for saying that restaurants are neither strategic nor a hub of value creation. Unfortunately, it doesn't make a good case for reading more. I can't agree that I want to topple the system, much less that I need to know how. Business may be the enemy (have we all made our mind up about that?) but they are all we have right now. So why do we not want to build vibrant businesses, at all?

Community Interest Companies ought to be a legal entity which cannot and does not have shareholders, so how are they social-democratic? But that aside, why would they be miserable to work in?

My personal opinion is that the creativity and individual talent *of the customers* is just as compromised as that of the workers by the restaurant system. Why? Because this one-size-fits-all-but-hey-let's-make-three-sizes-for-marketing mentality, which treats the customers as passive, teat-sucking, passengers is as much a tool of the bosses success as everything else.

I realise this is not the usual point of view but let me be clear: until the workers unite with the customers, the bosses must win, surely?

If anyone wants to go ahead and overthrow the bosses, don't let me stop them. But I want to win, so I'm less interested in blacks versus whites than I am in coloureds versus grey.

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Pile of waffle. Consumers ('customers') are workers, I don't know why you think they are different social entities. What you're talking about isn't anarchism, it's not even social democracy, it's quite confused. I think you ought to read the first prole.info primer as your thoughts on 'abolish...' are pretty confused. That said, AR is pretty confused itself in parts.

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Quote:
My personal opinion

Fascinating. Now tell us, how does one translate your personal opinion into action? Without that it exists only as a biological curiosity.

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Ipswich_Anarchist_Martin wrote:
Hi Quint, thanks for taking the time to reply. I take your point that I probably did not know the reason for saying that restaurants are neither strategic nor a hub of value creation. Unfortunately, it doesn't make a good case for reading more. I can't agree that I want to topple the system, much less that I need to know how. Business may be the enemy (have we all made our mind up about that?) but they are all we have right now. So why do we not want to build vibrant businesses, at all?

You what? Your username is "anarchist" - do you think you're an anarchist?

Joined: 11-08-07

Toppling the system is no guarantee that it will be replaced with something better.

Blaming everything on bosses is the same mentality that says "force is justified until *I* am in charge"

Anarchism isn't about what we *are* it is about what we *are not*.

We are autonomous - but that means we're all different! You cant lump us into a nice convenient group with a label. We are not capitalists because the problems are so obvious with capitalism that we cannot stomach them. But as Edward De Bono says: you analyse the past so as to design the future. We aren't so bitter and twisted that we are only interested in analysing the past - so as to have someone to blame. Actually we're more interested in improvement, in having a good idea, and in trying it out. We're active - we don't want to sit about scoring points and debating our revenge. And we certainly don't want to bomb the governments. That's why we're not anarchists - we *are* Anarchists - it's a new idea...

Here's another idea I haven't seen discussed: in a CIC, shareholder power is limited but there is nothing limiting a Chairman's pay. So, a CIC is not enough as it stands to prevent the stinking rot of capitalism from infecting this, like everything else... But what if when you were starting up a CIC, the sensible suggestion were made to have everyone paid the same rate.

The rate is not fixed, so if the Company makes excess profits in one year, all the workers might benefit in the next year. The workers wouldnt suck the company dry (as overpaid bosses do - with short-term policies even more than relentless financial greed) because they have a vested interest in the Company being there next year. But they would be motivated to do a good job, individually and as a team. And they'd be able to help and support each other, because the cleaners could tell the manager off (provided of course, they were right!)

You've still got bosses and workers because they are different jobs - but with one key difference: they all earn the same money. They have to, because the Company was set up solely for that purpose from day one...

I can't believe there is something about a restaurant that would make this not work and I cant believe it's not obvious to other people that this is a good idea. So there must be another reason why it just never gets tried out.

That's why I've still got this half-formed intuition that it is the customers that are the problem, not the businesses....

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jesus christ. please read the other prole pamphlet ... my god eek

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Ha ha. Anarchism. What can you say? Along comes a new recruit and you're having to convince them they're not one after all. Ho ho ho ho. Bless.

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yeah, and i'm being uncharacteristically blunt on account of tiredness from an "autonomous" day at work. i wish proudhon would stay dead sad

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Ipswich_Anarchist_Martin wrote:
Anarchism isn't about what we *are* it is about what we *are not*.

Uh, wrong.

Ipswich_Anarchist_Martin wrote:
That's why I've still got this half-formed intuition that it is the customers that are the problem, not the businesses....

Now, I have worked in customer service for a long, long time, and sometimes I want to slap people, but the customers are (mostly) fellow workers. It is definately the bosses that are the problem.

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i wish proudhon would stay dead

Typical, blame a beard.

Quote:
It is definately the bosses that are the problem.

What "problem"? Either way, authority is something which we hand over, not something which is taken from us. Yadda yadda. Blahdy blah.

Joined: 11-08-07

Thanks for your comments, Rogue. In some ways, it would be much simpler if there *was* a definition of what is an Anarchist. But there is not, which is why you actually do have to think it out for yourself and talk it through with other people and try things out and change them if they dont work - which come to think of it is a hell of a lot more interesting and rewarding than following the blueprint of what someone has already worked out for you, scared stiff of doing something wrong...

I seem to be on my own in suggesting that there might be problems in addition to, and other than, the problem that capitalism rewards the avarice of bosses.

So let's take three examples of three types of restaurant: Joe's Cafe, Burger King and L'Omelette.
L'Omelette is a four-star London restaurant with prices to match.
Joe's Cafe is a 'greasy spoon' run by Joe Smith and his wife. He cooks, she waittresses. They charge rock-bottom prices.
Burger King... well, Burger King.

The customers of L'Omelette are foodies - they know and love their food. Not all - some are there for the snob value. Some are there because they like the decor, or the music or the barman. But all of them are willling to pay a price far in excess of the value of the food. They all like to feel that they are in the hands of a great chef, even if they are not. These customers like not knowing each other.

Anyone can go to L'Omelette provided they have the price of admission. Similarly anyone can stop going. Although the customers are committed to the food, they're not committed to the place and they are more likely to be friends of the boss than of the chef. They might wish they had the Chef's talent. They're unlikely to either admire or identify with his job. (And that's why Gordon Ramsay was so good for all of them)

Joe's Cafe is the same - in principle, anyone can go if they can afford it. In practise, Joe's Cafe has a steady clientele of regulars, with the occasional passing trade. People dont have to plan ahead to go to Joe's, they dont have to save up, and most of them probably know each other better than they know Joe.

I have a disabled friend who goes to a cafe like this. He goes three or four times a week. The last thing on my friend's mind is the food. Try telling him this restaurant is not a strategic hub of value creation - it is just that, for him. Otherwise he would hardly see anyone all week...

Joe's Cafe and L'Omelette are opposite ends of the spectrum, yet they are both the same. There are hundreds of thousands of places like this all across the world. Together they are strategic hubs of value creation. Like trucking. Some are good, some are bad. The vast majority could be made a CIC quickly and easily.

Burger King could not be made a CIC (not without some serious pain). Burger King will serve you a burger *your way* which is to say that it will sell you a burger in one of the handful of ways that marketing has determined. Burger King has a special offer on, most weeks of the year. Burger King undercuts Joes Cafe.

Unlike the high-value work of both the restaurants we have described, the de-valued work provided by Burger King leeches value from the food it serves, from the people it employs, and from the communities it is in. It even leaches value from the customer! "We all like a burger dont we??? We all like a bargain???"

But suppose instead that workers said to themselves "Instead of buying the cheapest, as Capitalism encourages us, let's decide on a minumum amount we want to spend".

That is, you automatically think about spending below a maximum: try thinking of spending above a minimum as well.

What was that? Did we just feel a cold wind blow through the room? If people co-operate on this, how long before they start co-operating on other things - like coffee... Where would Tesco-Walmart be if people started buying food on something other than price?

When you're in a motorway service station it hardly matters, but think about the last time you were tempted by the special offer flame-grilled burger served "your way" in your local high street. Hopefully it *was* the last time...

MJ
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Ipswich Anarchist Martian wrote:
But suppose instead that workers said to themselves "Instead of buying the cheapest, as Capitalism encourages us, let's decide on a minumum amount we want to spend".

grin grin grin

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Capitalism doesn't make us buy cheap as opposed to expensive. It makes us buy (full stop). It makes it so that the only way we can get the things we need to survive is by buying them on markets (more or less controlled).

Value is alienated human labor stored up and become exchangeable. It is what is behind money. We are not talking about "family values" here.

Your plan to buy expensive is nothing new, and changes nothing whatsoever. Do you buy the better more expensive product or the cheaper crappier one. As people living in a commodity producing society, we make these decisions every day. Buying more expensive, but higher quality things, is still 100% capitalist.

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You can't force companies to improve the quality of what they offer by paying a bit more, you can only fit into a higher category of marketing. People buy shite from fast food joints because they can't afford to eat in expensive, high-quality places. While this remains the case, there will always BE shit places, to cater for people without much money.

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admin edit, watch it, although I agree with the sentiment

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Gdid we've spent years now persuading Jack and revol to behave and explain things to people using reason rather than inexplicable (to the target) ranting, particularly with newbies, so the last thing needed is for you to take up that discarded mantle.

Hi Martin, I'm assuming your the person I think you are (if you weren't that'd be bizarre), I'm the member who does Freedom newspaper (I don't put my real name in forums for this reason).

The people posting here are right, CiC's would never be anything other than social democratic even if they became the dominant form of organisation, because at best they demand only a better quality of (self) exploitation, not the abolition of exploitation itself. At worst they are nothing more than another NGO, 'helping' the poor to beg for charitable crumbs from the plates of the rich, with parasites skimming off the top as it works its way down.

While we can set up as many non-hierarchical. equal-pay workers' co-op CiC's as we like, it is not weakening either the state or capital relations. Look into the history of the co-operative movement, which at one point was massively influential economically - still is in some places, look at the East of England co-op - but has never come close to challenging power relations within capital and has at times actively supported it (even in the 1926 general strike, when they were at their most radical height, many notoriously refused to supply the strikers).

Today the best example is Suma, which touts itself as an ethical wholesaler, a workers' co-op, non-hierarchical, equal pay etc, and a ruthless operator when dealing with customers. It bars people from buying direct if there's a major seller of its goods in town, threatens legal suits to people 'misusing' its logo, and generally throws its weight around to lower its cost base and protect its brand.

It may be a workers' co-op, but it's first priority is making enough money to pay its shareholders (workforce, in this case), and everything else is subservient to that. The most basic criticisms of capital relations still apply, with or without there being a boss figure - the workforce entres capital relations as a group combatant, but a combatant nonetheless and no more able to destroy unequal relations than Microsoft.

Bear in mind the CiC itself is a form created by the state, for the state. It's original purpose was to provide an acceptable means of diverting more government responsibilities/resources into private hands - the worst-case NGO scenario. It incorporates the capitalist system into its functioning, it was designed by capitalists and it can't be used to usurp them.

The usefulness of the co-op/CiC is solely as an 'official', legally acceptable body which has a certain degree of flexibility for political organisations which charities and traditional companies don't, and ideally it can provide a working support structure for political organisations - eg. how some of the anarchist social centres operate - to work more effectively for the re-establishment of a workers' movement powerful enough to force real change. In that context it's worth talking about. But only in that context is it of use to libertarians.

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Saii wrote:
Gdid we've spent years now persuading Jack and revol to behave and explain things to people using reason rather than inexplicable (to the target) ranting, particularly with newbies, so the last thing needed is for you to take up that discarded mantle.

I wasn't ranting I was using flaming to comedic effect.

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Using revol’s old excuses doesn’t help your case either tongue

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Sorry.

neutral

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angry

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bffs?

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You're in WSM GDID, you think engagement with this kind of stuff is worthwhile. Stop trying to have your cake and eat it.

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Wassat?

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Jack wrote:
You're in WSM GDID, you think engagement with this kind of stuff is worthwhile. Stop trying to have your cake and eat it.

pwned

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embarrassed

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Nationalise the restaurants.

Sensible policies for a better Britain. cool

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the button wrote:
Nationalise the restaurants.

Sensible policies for a better Ireland. cool

Fixed.