Abortion

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powertotheimagi...
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Jun 27 2007 15:54
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yes clearly there are no ethical issues at all regarding abortion and infact when we say we are pro choice we actually mean we are pro abortion because really there is no choice to be made.

Finally, its got through. Well done revol, you can top Joseph and have two gold stars.

powertotheimagi...
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Jun 27 2007 15:56
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i just wanted to compare women to chimps

I know you secretly support AR, so its hard to get one round.

powertotheimagi...
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Jun 27 2007 16:02
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yeah no choice at all to be made, it's just like having a wart removed, I mean that's what ever women I know whose had to make the choice has told me.

Real ones this time? They must of had it well, an abortion isnt just like removing a wart, warts are much more stubborn bastards.

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Steven.
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Jun 27 2007 16:07
powertotheimagination wrote:
The way chimps are also known to actively help to remove themselves from cages when they are being removed from vivisection labs is also another way they try to avoid it. And for your third point, the way they have been shown to actively protest against vivisection,

You know I didn't believe this last bit, but dammit you know it's true:

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Lazy Riser
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Jun 27 2007 16:10
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yes clearly there are no ethical issues at all regarding abortion and infact when we say we are pro choice we actually mean we are pro abortion because really there is no choice to be made.

Funny you should say that as it happens. I can remember when the “pro-choicers” chose their name because the pro-lifers accused them of being “for abortion”. Either way, I’ll leave the ethical debates to people who are properly adjusted. I’m pro-abortion and proud.

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The next time I hear of someone having a miscarriage i'll tell them to get over it.

Ha ha. Well it’ll certainly be more helpful than pandering to the melodrama. Sure, getting rid of babies is bound to cause havoc on the old id, as we said earlier, but in the end we’re all just a bunch of chemicals. I mean you must have been in situations were the people around someone get more upset about a miscarriage than the person whose had it? It’s a stone’s throw from when they let labour MPs with their kids in private schools off-the-hook because we can’t expect people’s politics to override their natural inclination as parents. Or doing IVF on the nartional elf due to the enormous emotional trauma of not being able to bear children, which, as we know, is everyone’s god given right and duty. I mean, I haven’t got a problem with it, if that’s what everyone wants, but I’m not going to get worked up about it just ‘coz some little game of happy families has come to an abrupt end.

powertotheimagi...
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Jun 27 2007 16:13
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Ever thought of conseulling women who've had miscarriages?

A few of my mates yeah, why?

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This thread is amazing, Lazy the proffessional (internet) sociopath being challenged by poweto...., the animal righist, in just who can sound the most callous.

Revol its true, you couldnt make it up right? I do not challenge LR, his domain over libcom is much more secured than mine due to his excessive amounts of time here and his dryness that dosen't quite fit me. Although I must make a confession that I'm happy to have the animal rightist tag on here though, will I make the yearly awards this time?

You know I didn't believe this last bit, but dammit you know it's true:

Fuck, i'm in that pic! (just) Cheers John, I didnt know it existed. Got any more from the series?

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Steven.
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Jun 27 2007 16:15
powertotheimagination wrote:
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You know I didn't believe this last bit, but dammit you know it's true:

Fuck, i'm in that pic! (just) Cheers John, I didnt know it existed. Got any more from the series?

Are you serious? That's pretty funny. I bet I can guess which one you are.

powertotheimagi...
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Jun 27 2007 16:19

It is quite humourous I suppose, but not as good as that one revol had up of you last year.

Well i'm not in the front line, but I possibly know some people who are.

If you guess right you'll get a vegan choc cake.

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thugarchist
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Jun 27 2007 16:27
Flint wrote:
powertotheimagination wrote:
There are other options except for an abortion.

Removing your genitals, for example.

Oh Flint... why do you put me in these dilemmas?

Dundee_United
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Jun 27 2007 16:37
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If you guess right you'll get a vegan choc cake.

First you come out with some of the most right-wing hateful crap I've read in a while then you offer chocolate cake. You really are a callous bastard.

As for Jack and Revol... Yeah not the best to offer abortion till birth, and obviously is going to be psychologically damaging, but the 'right' needs to be there to be used if necessary. Obviously also the power of capitalist social relations cannot be dismissed in this debate. It's shit when people are forced to do things they don't want to that have such far reaching emotional and physical implications, but in the here and now is there anything that can really be done about that?

powertotheimagi...
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Jun 27 2007 16:42
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First you come out with some of the most right-wing hateful crap I've read in a while then you offer chocolate cake. You really are a callous bastard.

It wasen't a sieg hail, it was a new exercise move. And nothing is wrong with my choc cake thank you very much.

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It's shit when people are forced to do things they don't want to that have such far reaching emotional and physical implications,

This is nearly as bad as Jeremy Kyle finishing speech.

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but in the here and now is there anything that can really be done about that?

Some things can be done now, like getting your arse of the couch and walking to your nearest drop in centre/family planning place- you even get the flavoured ones now so there is no reason not to! Chop chop Dundee.

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Steven.
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Jun 27 2007 18:35
powertotheimagination wrote:
It is quite humourous I suppose, but not as good as that one revol had up of you last year.

he's never put a pic of me up has he?

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Well i'm not in the front line, but I possibly know some people who are.

If you guess right you'll get a vegan choc cake.

I bet you're the dark haired girl, second from left near the back. No?

thugarchist wrote:
Oh Flint... why do you put me in these dilemmas?

Is that really Flint?
Ha ha, like my grandad used to tell me - behind every pony tail there's a horse's arse.

Flint
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Jun 27 2007 19:52
John. wrote:
Is that really Flint?
Ha ha, like my grandad used to tell me - behind every pony tail there's a horse's arse.

Years ago.

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thugarchist
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Jun 27 2007 19:55
Flint wrote:
John. wrote:
Is that really Flint?
Ha ha, like my grandad used to tell me - behind every pony tail there's a horse's arse.

Years ago.

No fair posting a pic with pookie in a rubber dress! It makes it harder to mock you.

Flint
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Jun 27 2007 20:02
Lucas wrote:
It seems like for anyone left of the Republican Party, being pro-choice is a knee jerk reaction. I think the left suffers from a pre-made platform with some issues that don't nessarily follow the Left's basis on valueing human life, I think this article by Carl Estabrook sums it quiet nicely http://www.counterpunch.org/estabrook01172003.html

BTW, this wouldn't be Lucas formerly of NAF would it?

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Lazy Riser
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Jun 27 2007 20:21
JK wrote:
which is why we love scabs

So you’re saying that scabs are actually acting in their individual best interests, as opposed to just believing that they are. Your point is duly noted.

LR wrote:
Marx proposed that narrow self interest was the driver of communism.
Revol wrote:
narrow self interest, no

a class interest, yes but a class interest that was the negation of all narrow special interests.

It was mistake for me to even introduce the word “narrow”, as if a narrow one exists versus an enlightened version. Sorry. What’s more, you’re right. Marx didn’t propose what I said at all, in fact he said that narrow self interest was destructive of capitalism (as well as responsible for its functioning). On the other hand, Marxist communism (and I’m not sure I countenance any other kind) asserts that the working class is compelled to develop class consciousness by material conditions. Such compulsion can only operate through individual self interest, so I guess I’m suspicious, but there’s no way I’m going to argue Marx with you. You win.

Revol wrote:
Lazy the proffessional (internet) sociopath

I hit two of the indicators in DSM-IV’s version, and I’m borderline on a third. I need three to be full on robot chubby antisocial personality disorder. Given my lack of MacDonald Triad, I think I’m in the clear. Not far off though.

Lucas
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Jun 27 2007 20:24

Beggars can't be choosers, and I don't think people who are pro-choice are evil, I see the arguement. I just think they are confused, I won't be throwing bombs at abortion clinics or smearing pro-choicers anytime soon, but it would be nice but that's neither here or there.

Flint
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Jun 27 2007 20:33
Lucas wrote:
Beggars can't be choosers, and I don't think people who are pro-choice are evil, I see the arguement. I just think they are confused, I won't be throwing bombs at abortion clinics or smearing pro-choicers anytime soon, but it would be nice but that's neither here or there.

Admins, this fellow just said it would be "nice" to bomb women's health clinics. Delete!

Lucas
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Jun 27 2007 20:39

My mistake, I meant the "it would be nice" to having people who agreed with me, not bombing abortion clinics...That's just dumb, but what I've seen is that no one really cares about whether an unborn baby is human or not, if it is, it has the same rights as a woman, man or child, that is the right to live. I see that being pro-choice, denies the human, inside a person's stomach the right to choose. When is a human a human? For me putting a cut off date resembles too much like eugenics, picking and choosing who has a right to live or not. Saying abortion wil always occur so legalize it, doesen't make sense to me. Murder will always occur, so legalize it?

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thugarchist
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Jun 27 2007 20:41
Lucas wrote:
My mistake, I meant the "it would be nice" to having people who agreed with me, not bombing abortion clinics...That's just dumb, but what I've seen is that no one really cares about whether an unborn baby is human or not, if it is, it has the same rights as a woman, man or child, that is the right to live. I see that being pro-choice, denies the human, inside a person's stomach the right to choose. When is a human a human? For me putting a cut off date resembles too much like eugenics, picking and choosing who has a right to live or not. Saying abortion wil always occur so legalize it, doesen't make sense to me. Murder will always occur, so legalize it?

Are you Lucas from NAF or not?

Lucas
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Jun 27 2007 20:46

No, I don't even know what NAF is.

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thugarchist
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Jun 27 2007 20:49
Lucas wrote:
No, I don't even know what NAF is.

I knew I should've taken Flint's bet.

Well, anyway. You're a fucking cock.

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Lazy Riser
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Jun 27 2007 20:50
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but what I've seen is that no one really cares about whether an unborn baby is human or not

Someone help me out here. Is it the cruelty of abortion that puts you off? I'm really struggling to see what the problem is.

Lucas
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Jun 27 2007 20:59

Well this isn't regard to you but the above post, anywho I just realized forums are for douch bags and people who have no interest in conversation, wow could I find a more heterogenous group of people, with that I leave ye onto your own intelectual masturbations on the world wide web, have fun changing the world one online dissenter at a time peace!

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thugarchist
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Jun 27 2007 21:01
Lucas wrote:
Well this isn't regard to you but the above post, anywho I just realized forums are for douch bags and people who have no interest in conversation, wow could I find a more heterogenous group of people, with that I leave ye onto your own intelectual masturbations on the world wide web, have fun changing the world one online dissenter at a time peace!

Cool. Hope someone beats you to death with a fetus.

Bree-at-Last
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Jun 27 2007 21:13

This line of thinking always sounds ridiculous coming from the mouths of anti-authoritarians. If you want to decrease the abortion rate by campaigning for better/free contraception and health education, that's great. I do that as a reproductive freedom activist and anarchist. Something tells me (maybe it was your implication that abortion should be illegal?) that you're not all that progressive. I would love to hear what methods you'd employ to prevent women for exercising autonomy over their own bodies . . . throw them in jail? Deny them access to healthcare? Or maybe that's too blatantly authoritarian. You can always stigmatize their actions, appeal to their religious convictions, intimidate their allies, or frighten them with misinformation? If the later sounds more your style, I can give you a list of the organizations I've been fighting for the past few years.

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Lazy Riser
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Jun 27 2007 21:36

Jesus. There's something wrong about frightening your enemies with misinformation? Christ, I've really lost the plot now.

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Joseph Kay
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Jun 27 2007 21:46

women are your enemies? duly noted.

Lazy Riser wrote:
So you’re saying that scabs are actually acting in their individual best interests, as opposed to just believing that they are. Your point is duly noted.

in neoclassical terms, yeah. plot it like a prisoners dilemma and while the optimum outcome is everyone strikes, mr. economicus will scab. luckily sociopaths and economists make up a minority of the class, despite the bourgeoisie's best efforts at social engineering (society doesn't exist etc).

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Lazy Riser
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Jun 27 2007 22:04
Joseph K. wrote:
women are your enemies? duly noted.

Not all of them. Just the ugly ones.

Lazy Riser wrote:
So you’re saying that scabs are actually acting in their individual best interests, as opposed to just believing that they are.
Jospeh K. wrote:
in neoclassical terms, yeah. plot it like a prisoners dilemma and while the optimum outcome is everyone strikes, mr. economicus will scab.

I think you’ll find neoclassical terms advises Mr Economicus to strike, take his labour elsewhere or sequester the capital and manage it himself. What do you think they’re going on strike for? The street-cred? Besides if Mr Economicus scabs you should go round his house and “abort” him.

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luckily sociopaths and economists make up a minority of the class, despite the bourgeoisie's best efforts at social engineering (society doesn't exist etc).

Ho ho. Yeah obviously. It's a wonder we haven't had a revolution already.

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Joseph Kay
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Jun 27 2007 22:21
Lazy Riser wrote:
I think you’ll find neoclassical terms advises Mr Economicus to strike, take his labour elsewhere or sequester the capital and manage it himself.

yeah i remember now i was hallucinating what my economics lecturer said. he actually said the optimum strategy was the appropriation of the means of production. no wait, hallucinating again. he was a bourgeois economist and told me exactly what i said the first time, scabbing is the equivalent of blabbing in the prisoners dilemma.