Anarchiam, Copyrights and Counterfeit Goods

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LeighGionaire
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Joined: 28-02-04
Jul 22 2004 00:34
Anarchiam, Copyrights and Counterfeit Goods

Opinions needed please.

What is the anarchist viewpoint on the trade in counterfeit/fake goods?

Selling fake clothes, make up, jewelry, c.d's, video's etc. Would you regard it as small time capitalism or anarchism in a primative form?

Thanks in advance.

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PaulMarsh
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Jul 22 2004 06:34

Depends on the quality!

I have no problem with the big film corporations (for example) being ripped off by pirate DVDs. Anyone who is aware of the criticisms of capitalist production can apply those some critiques, with bells on, to the trade in jewellry, CDs, make up etc

I do have a problem however with the quality of the DVDs currently being sold from pub to pub by Chinese hawkers in Hackney - its a fiver down the drain! Clearly counterfeitting is just another part of capitalism, albeit a junior one!

Politically there are a lot of historical issues surrounding counterfeiting of goods. Governments do it as well. Big business does it all the time. The post war Japanese economic explosion certainly involved the direct copying of many Western goods, in breach of copyright and patent. There is a famous black and white interview of Robin Day interviewing a Japanese industrialist who persistently denies this, only for Day to produce two virtually identical items from his pocket, one made in the UK and one in Japan. Needless to say the Japanese "copy" was significantly cheaper.

During the Cold War, both powers would be obsessed with stealing technology off one another, then copying whatever they were able to steal. The Soviets, arguably behind the Americans in the technology stakes, allegedly stole much of their nuclear technology from the Yanks. Sounds like counterfeiting to me!

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cantdocartwheels
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Jul 22 2004 09:51

Looking past bourgeois legal codes, its airly obvious that someone selling things ''illegally'' is no different to someone selling things legally.

Certainly the really big counterfeiting rings are no different, its just they operate capitalist means of production supposedly outside the state structure to some degree. But just because theres limited state involvement doesn't stop it being capitalism, there are still those who profit and those who are exploited.

If anything pure capitalism is more brutal, but its existence serves to legitmise the existence of nation states anyway.

I don't see any difference personally.

john

Wayne
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Joined: 28-12-03
Jul 22 2004 13:58

When I was wee I used to flog fake/ stolen designer clothes. I didn't actually make much cash out of it because I couldn't sell them for much more than what I bought them for. The guy I bought them off on the other hand had a car and a (fake) rolex. I didn't get rich but I got a bit of prestige and was able to help my mates. I think the same goes for some drug dealing, at low levels a lot of people end up selling things for more or less what they got them for, at higher levels it's a racket like any other. Anyway my Del Boy days came to an end not through political enlightenment but 'cos one especially dodgy batch of fake Lacoste polo-shirts ran in the wash and fucked everyone's real clothes. After that my position was untenable.

coyote
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Jul 23 2004 03:33
cantdocartwheels wrote:
Looking past bourgeois legal codes, its airly obvious that someone selling things ''illegally'' is no different to someone selling things legally.

Certainly the really big counterfeiting rings are no different, its just they operate capitalist means of production supposedly outside the state structure to some degree. But just because theres limited state involvement doesn't stop it being capitalism, there are still those who profit and those who are exploited.

If anything pure capitalism is more brutal, but its existence serves to legitmise the existence of nation states anyway.

I don't see any difference personally.

john

For possibly the first time I agree with you! smile

This is maybe a good example of a "free market" so do you think the so-called Libertarian Capitalists (sic) support bootlegging? grin

Wayne
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Joined: 28-12-03
Jul 26 2004 12:55

Okay, so I am from a wealthy background. Why do you have so much hatred Revol68? WHy are you so bitter and determined to spread conflict? Anarchism should be about making links and spreading friendship across boundaries like race, gender and class. Whether you are born rich or poor, I'm not saying it doesn't make a difference but we are all in the same boat, right?

I think all your anger stems from not getting cuddled as a child. It wasn't your mum's fault (you will always find a way to blame the rich), I know she needed a double amputation becuase Daddy was skiing in Switzerland when he should have been updating the health and safety rules at his mine. I know you hate my family because they also paid the British mercenaries who shot your father in cold blood. I know how much you suffered during the rizzla famine of 94 when half the newsagents in Belfast ran out of cigarette papers.

But can't we just all get along?

Mike Harman
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Joined: 7-02-06
Aug 15 2004 11:02

Someone brought these two gems about The Lion King to my attention:

http://www.spoor.co.za/article.php?no=491

http://www.kimbawlion.com/

Cases like this are interesting (to me at least). Disney wouldn't be able to make vast profits off it's stuff if there was no copyright law. But since there is, I generally support cases like this, since there's massive financial benefit to Disney in ripping off other people's ideas, and if they relied on original thought, most of their product would never get made.

The fact that all Disney Trademarks have been impounded in South Africa makes me laugh.