anarchist fascist website

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Khawaga's picture
Khawaga
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Mar 20 2008 17:16
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What's LESS threatening to the upper class and governments - a self sustained power buying anarchism into reality - or a "working class revolution" on THEIR territory under THEIR law?

If I have to spoon feed you - obviously the island is less threatening. Buying anarchism into reality is really one of the more preposterous strategies I've heard. Still, it partly worked for the Zionist project so maybe you should look into that experience.

And do you seriously believe that an island, wherever it might be, will not be under the territory and law of some state?

Chilli Sauce's picture
Chilli Sauce
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Mar 20 2008 17:20

You're correct about the CNT, as I said, mistakes were made. But in many cases the rank-and-file strongly resisted and had they access to weaponry we might be living in a whole 'nother world

Quote:
What's LESS threatening to the upper class and governments - a self sustained power buying anarchism into reality - or a "working class revolution" on THEIR territory under THEIR law?

Clearly you're right, I'm happy to say. My points still stand, tho. If you're successful, they will still come after your "anarchist" island community. And, at least with a working class revolution (especially one that reaches the ranks of military), workers can use their economic power to resist government efforts to crush them. Do you plan on buying a mercenary army to defend your island?

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Chilli Sauce
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Mar 20 2008 17:21
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Buying anarchism into reality

Hahahahahaha!!!! Irony.

BulimicMind
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Mar 20 2008 17:25

Wow, good thing that JJ suicide socialism thing had nothing to do with anarchism.
I don't know why those body builders need an island, or what they're planning to do with it.
Regardless, that doesn't really address the issue of an anarchist island run by anarchists for anarchists, where all that shit wouldn't have to happen.

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Chilli Sauce
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Mar 20 2008 17:26
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Zionist project so maybe you should look into that experience.

Interesting analogy. But to carry it a bit further, Zionism was in large part a "socialist" project. See how well that turned out. Of course, "Freeman" is a racist, so perhaps the analogy is quite apt.

BulimicMind
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Mar 20 2008 17:33

We wouldn't HAVE to defend our island beyond voluntarily assembled militias! You can say that the State would come after us just for existing, but I don't think they would, period. Especially if we were large enough. This is one of those arguments like every election gets -

I'd never vote for him, he's fringe and unelectable!
But he won't be if we ALL vote for him!

---

I'd never fall for that crazy buying an island thing, we'd all turn into suicidal cannibals!
But not if we ALL participate!

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madashell
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Mar 20 2008 17:33
BulimicMind wrote:
Just a quick question, if you are familiar w/ Marx:
how did he define capital?
Just wondering. Because I think there's a difference between what you own and how you get to owning it, which I haven't really picked up from him (not that I'm a Marx scholar).

And even if freeman (anarchy.net founder) is a semi-racist, that doesn't mean he can't be convinced. There's certainly no reason to say, "well that's just that crazy fascist guy over there, perverting the ideas of anarchism." If that's what you think he's doing, say something about it! Raise the issue THERE, don't tell people to either support or flat-out ignore it.

BulimicMind, take a look at the anarchy.net front page. See that bit where it says:

Quote:
Copyright © 1998-2008 United Anarchists / Corrupt

? Click on the link to Corrupt, read some of the articles.

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Chilli Sauce
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Mar 20 2008 17:36
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We wouldn't HAVE to defend our island beyond voluntarily assembled militias! You can say that the State would come after us just for existing, but I don't think they would, period. Especially if we were large enough.

If you're a threat, esp in terms of social revolution, they're coming after you. Have you studied the history of the US state? We don't allow liberal left governments to exist in South America, you don't think they would come after an anarchist society? Also, You think you can defend yourself against the military might of advanced industrial states? They're called Nukes.

Quote:
This is one of those arguments like every election gets -

I'd never vote for him, he's fringe and unelectable!
But he won't be if we ALL vote for him!

Anarchists using voting analogies, interesting....

BulimicMind
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Mar 20 2008 17:37

I have. The only bad parts are the intellectual snobbery and anti-individualfreedom slants.
But both the fringe left and fringe right have more in common w/ one another than either has with mainstream center.
Oh, and you're right. The soviet union and the US both blew themselves up. The nukes defeat ANY argument.

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Chilli Sauce
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Mar 20 2008 17:39
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fringe left and fringe right have more in common w/ one another than either has with mainstream center.

Jesus fucking Christ. No wonder you like this anarchy dot net...

BulimicMind
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Mar 20 2008 17:41

What's that supposed to imply? (seriously)

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Chilli Sauce
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Mar 20 2008 17:47

The fringe right are fascists, racists, religious fundamentalists, and, ultimately, all authoritarians. The fringe left are anti-capitalists opposed to all those things, and in the case of anarchists, we reject the hierarchy those very ideas are based upon.

What I meant is that Freeman is taking the language of the "fringe left" to recruit for the "fringe right." If you feel the two have goals in common, I can see why you would embrace such contradiction.

I gotta study, you go read some Marx and some Berkman, I'm done with this conversation for the day...

BulimicMind
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Mar 20 2008 17:54

Okay, maybe so. Maybe what I meant was, if we all go over there and talk about it, some sort of compromise could be reached. But I suppose even I can see that's just inexperience talking...
(I still think the island strategy could work, regardless of who's employing it)

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Mar 20 2008 18:06
BulimicMind wrote:
I have. The only bad parts are the intellectual snobbery and anti-individualfreedom slants.
But both the fringe left and fringe right have more in common w/ one another than either has with mainstream center.

Erm...

Corrupt wrote:
On my way from the train station today I spotted a group of upset leftists, standing by the sidewalk, holding up a large flag saying "NO INDIVIDUAL IS ILLEGAL." Even though no people were paying any attention, the proud communists repeatedly screamed out slogans for equality and peace, as if to summon a supernatural god from Soviet past.

This is the religious mantra that our society is brainwashing us with on TV every day. The dogmatic message of world peace achieved through a utopian world government is not unique to leftism; the globalist elite is promising millions of clueless workers the same dream. The idea is that if we remove everything that makes us unique (and thereby unequal), we'll all live happily as industrial clones in a fairy tale society.

You have to be either really stupid or really brainwashed to buy into this idea. Mainstream leftism, although historically responsible for genocide of the aristocracy, mass slave labour that led to mass poverty, and some of the most insane leaders being put to power, is more than willing to join hands with neo-liberalism and other ideologies that claim we're all equal, special, important and legal.

I don't buy this. If you ask me, I'd like to illegalize all of these whining leftists and deport them to Africa, where they'd be forced to aid all third world disaster with their magic hands. I'm sure they'd fancy the militaristic regimes, primitive lifestyles, violent suburbs and cultural confusion. While at it, why not include all drug dealers, criminals, defectives and perverts that right now are populating our communities? We'll let them survive on their own and if they fail, who'll miss them?

Let's end the drama of humanism once and for all. No one believes in this fairy tale society anymore, especially not the middle class people who've observed their neighbourhoods becoming increasingly violent, corrupt and poor. The people who want to keep all defectives should stop bitching on the street and start acting accordingly; move out and establish your own society, regardless of intelligence, culture, social status and race. We're more than happy to see you leave - have a wonderful third world experience!

It's a fascist website, if you can't see why shit like the above makes it a problem for anarchists to cooperate with them, you're a fucking idiot.

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Tacks
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Mar 20 2008 18:17

bulimic - the issue is not about your island. The issue is you have been suckered into a nazi fucking website, not even a particularly grey area one, like national anarchist or some shit, a C18 nazi website.

Deal with that before setting sail for Lost.

Khawaga's picture
Khawaga
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Mar 20 2008 18:23

Tacks is right. Never mind the island project. The fact that these guys running the website are seriously fascist is more disconcerting than anything else. Stick around on this site and read some of the excellent library articles. While I do disagree with you I do believe that you mean well so I sincerely hope you find other compatriots.

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Khawaga
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Mar 20 2008 18:37

This is from the corrupt website, the article Katrina Victims Become Parasitical Predators. Note the language and remember that the far far majority of the victims were African-Americans.

Quote:
The meek and sentimental victims suddenly become vicious predators, effectively demonstrating how passive-aggressive idiots, whose only motivation in life is resentment, are overrunning our society. Resentment against rich people, smart people, educated people, white people, governmental people; anyone that's successful or otherwise healthy. It's a revolution against the system that baby-sits their pathetic lives in the first place.

(......)

It's very simple: a healthy society actively weeds out parasites and onlys offer social safety to healthy people who temporarily need it to move on, not to chronically poor, unemployed, criminal or otherwise dysfunctional individuals/families that don't contribute to society and resent those who can/do. Their nature is to take whatever they can and then run off to the next host. They need to be expelled from society. If they manage to survive on their own, fine. If they don't, who cares? We'll live a happier life without them.

That is as racist as you can get. Advocacy of separation and violent expulsion. Black people are parasites, lazy, violent, criminal and do not contribute to society. A lot of the other articles are just simple rehashing of typical anti-semitic propaganda, illuminati paranoia etc. Bulimic, do you really want to associated with this stuff?

Chilli Sauce's picture
Chilli Sauce
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Mar 20 2008 18:40
Khawaga wrote:
Tacks is right. Never mind the island project. The fact that these guys running the website are seriously fascist is more disconcerting than anything else. Stick around on this site and read some of the excellent library articles. While I do disagree with you I do believe that you mean well so I sincerely hope you find other compatriots.

Fuck, altho I should be studying... Diddo on Khawaga. None of this is meant as an attack on you Bulimic, we'd love to have you as a comrade, but this anarchy dot net is a fascist plot to use the language of anarchism to recruit disenchanted young minds. Warn the other anarchy.netters, bring them over to Libcom, and we'll gladly discuss strategies to bring about the revolution,

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MJ
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Mar 20 2008 18:43

BulimicMind, the fact of the matter is, "anarchy.net" is a front for the same traditionalist, racist, anti-human, pro-eugenics clique that operates "nazi.org" and "pan-nationalism.org". They are not going to come around to anarchist politics because someone they suckered in argued them into their position. Instead they're making up anarchist groups, including a "platformist" one(!), to give the illusion that there is a movement behind the site. Why do you think all those groups are secret and communication between them has to go through the site's "staff"? It's completely laughable. The whole site reads as a double-bluff between people with developing anarchist ideals who are trying to appear experienced and knowledgeable about anarchism, and people with ideals completely antithetical to anarchism who are pretending to be anarchists. Nothing good is going to come out of it. Cut your losses now, spread the word, and get involved in the real world.

Carousel
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Mar 20 2008 18:54
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is a fascist plot to use the language of anarchism to recruit disenchanted young minds.

The disenchanted deserve what they get. It's the only way they'll learn.

Chilli Sauce's picture
Chilli Sauce
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Mar 20 2008 18:56

For the sake of my sanity, can we refrain from responding to Carousel? Please.

Carousel
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Mar 20 2008 19:00

Shut up. That was a serious point. You want to have a discussion about "me"? Do it elsewhere.

Mike Harman
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Mar 20 2008 19:13
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Why do you think all those groups are secret and communication between them has to go through the site's "staff"?

OMFG.

Carousel
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Mar 20 2008 19:17

Like I say ladies and gents, it’s evil and all, but if it isn’t fooling us, it isn’t fooling anybody.

BulimicMind
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Mar 20 2008 19:33

OKAY OKAY OKAY, cut me a break.
I just hold some doubt that corrupt and anarchy.net are exactly in league regardless of the links. Further judgment is still pending.

Carousel
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Mar 20 2008 19:38

Nah. You just haven't the same huge problem with "fascism" as some people. Even the possibility is enough to put people off. Apart from the disenchanted and the weak. To whom they are more than welcome. The opposite cadre to that they intended, but then that’s par for the course for these sorts of ventures.

Mike Harman
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Mar 20 2008 19:44
BulimicMind wrote:
OKAY OKAY OKAY, cut me a break.

OK here's some light reading while you take a break:

http://libcom.org/library/proposed-communist-settlement-peter-kropotkin

BulimicMind
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Mar 20 2008 19:56

Well, the majority of regulars on Anarchy.net aren't fascists, and as long as that's the case, I'll be there doing my damnedest to make sure it stays that way.

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MJ
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Mar 20 2008 21:04

How can there be "regulars"? The new version of it has only really been up for like two months!

Dude. http://www.cor rupt.org/radio/07.10.04 - it's a podcast conversation between "Alex Birch" of corrupt.org and "Gustav Finnborg", "editor" of ana rchy.net.

Fast forward to about 50 minutes for the anarchy.net guy to come in.

http://www.ana rchy.net/anarchy/ - the mission statement of "United Anarchists", who are running the site.

Quote:
Real anarchism is apolitical because it doesn't conform to the dogmas and circle-jerk of the current political circles, mainly the delusional left-right division and the absurd religiously fanatic "humanist anarchism," and it's in the interest of the anarchist to find a better alternative to these tedious readily laid institutions, even if it meant personal sacrifices and tremendous effort.

This whole complaint about the "conformity" of "humanism", coming from where it does, is just a Trojan horse to for the elitist, nationalist, pro-eugenics, segregationalist politics they want to push.

Hey why do you think "Freeman" is urging people to post their email addresses in these threads? If the posters are being distributed from a central point, or if recruitment to this pretend group is wouldn't it make more sense for him to just say "email me at xxx@yyy.zzz for more info" rather than trying to get people to publicly offer their own addresses? Does that set off any red flags for you?
http://bbs.anarchy. net/viewtopic.php?t=21&start=0
http://bbs.anarchy. net/viewtopic.php?t=3&start=0

And then on to the site's "wiki" page, a combination of plagiarisms, inaccuracies, oversimplifications and outright lies.

http://wiki.ana rchy.net/index.php?title=Anarchist_Morality

Quote:
Anarchist communists would argue the source of all so-called moral ideas are primitive superstitions.

http://wiki.ana rchy.net/index.php?title=Free-marketism

Quote:
The term "Anarcho-capitalism" is supposed to distinguish Anarcho-capitalism from proper bullshit anarchism which opposes private property.

http://wiki.ana rchy.net/index.php?title=National_anarchism

Quote:
National-Anarchism is quite controversial within the Anarchist movement, due most anarchists being anti-Nationalist, deeming the Nation as a totalitarian image. However, this falls short of national anarchist's definition of an Nation, which they define as organic.

http://wiki.ana rchy.net/index.php?title=Otto_Strasser%27s_three-point_programme

Quote:
Otto Strasser's three-point programme advocates a Third way, rejecting both Capitalism and Communism. It was written by Otto Strasser, of NSDAP fame.

http://wiki.ana rchy.net/index.php?title=Anarcho-fascism

Quote:
Anarcho-fascism is a flavour of Anarchism, combining the "Unity" ideal of Fascism with the dynamics of Anarchism.

Bear in mind that this Anarcho-fascism entry was:
* Made by the Admin last July before the site was even up.
* The first entry page, created immediately after the wiki was created.

The first five pages the site's administrator created overall were: the Main page, the introductory page, Anarcho-fascism, Antihumanism, and Metapolitics. The sixth was Anarchism. Then they rested for several months. I don't know what simpler proof there is that the site was specifically established to push fascism on people interested in anarchism. You can see this history here:
http://wiki.ana rchy.net/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&limit=500&target=Admin

H
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Mar 20 2008 23:01

So I reposted MJ's warning / write up to the Anarchy dot net Myspace group,

http://groups.myspace dot com/Anarchydotnet
(small group, I was the 6th member)

I went to check it just now. My post is deleted, my profile was deleted from the group.

And this was the post that took my posts place: (Yeah, my post had been the only post in the group)

Quote:
Isnt everybody Tired of the fighting? wrote:
THose buttons have been removed. No we are not a facist site. i for damn sure am not. Neither is Freeman or anyoen else that is staff member on that site. So disregard is post, he is off this site.