iyeah I can sympathise, it's a fucker when biatches are moving in on your market.
"Anarcho"-fascism
zarathustra wrote:
Having some views on patriotism, etc. that are rather unique for an anarchist (thought not for most people), I'm particularly bothered by these so-called "anarcho"-nationalists that are trying to take advantage of the increase in interest in anarchism.
I'm a bit worried to ask, but what are your views on patriotism?
As for the rest, just goes to show you can slap the 'anarcho' prefix on the front of any old unrelated shite to make it seem edgy. Why is this any different from all the other shit 'anarcho-whatever' politics around that people have to disassociate themselves from?
Indeed.
I read stormfront every once in a while to see what the local fascists are up to. Last time I checked, there was a guy who had a picture of Bakunin in his profile pic, and used a Bakunin quote to back up his rather strange views. He seemed to have some sort of degenerated Proudhonian separatist/racist federalist politics.
Very fuckered in my casual opinion.
People need to tread carefully here since both Proudhon and Bakunin were known anti-semites. In addition, Proudhon was a French patriot (who wanted, for instance, the Channel Islands "returned" to France) while Bakunin flirted with panslavism. So, it can't be denied that fascists and patriots can find stuff from them to back up their approach.
In a postcript to his pamphlet Marx théoricien de l'anarchisme Maximilien Rubel wrote of Bakunin:
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What to think of an "anarchist" or a "revolutionary communist" who believes and affirms that the Jew Marx is surrounded by a "crowd of little Jews", that "all this Jewish world", "a blood-sucking people" is "intimately organised [...] across all differences of political opinion", that it is "in large part at the disposition of Marx on the one hand and the Rothschilds on the other".
To back this up Rubel quotes a passage from the Bakunin Archives edited by Arthur Lehning about the link-up between Marx and the Rothschilds:
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That can seem strange [...] Ah, it's that Marx's communism wants the strong centralization of the State, and where there is State centralization, there must necessarily be a State central Bank, and where such a bank exists, the parasitic nature of the Jews, speculating on the labour of the people will always find a means of existing . . .
I suppose this is the sort of material the "anarcho"-fascists are able to rely on.
PS I though Richard Hunt died a couple of years ago.
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I know that Bakunin denounced his nationalist tendencies once he suscribed to anarchism, so was he actually an anti-semite throughout all of his anarchist thought?
When did he become an anarchist? Probably towards the end of the 1860s. I imagine that did involve him abandoning his earlier flirting with panslavism (but I'm not sure, perhaps somebody else can throw some light on this). But his anti-semitism continued after he became an anarchist and was (still being)expressed at the time his dispute with Marx in the International Working Men's Association in the early 1870s. As he died in 1876 (aged 62) this was not a youthful position he later abandoned.
Anyway, here's what wikipedia says about his anti-semitism:
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Bakunin is often seen as a notable anti-semite by critics since his death. However, during his lifetime anti-semitism was a commonplace attitude in Europe and among literati or intellectuals.
Bakunin used Anti-Semitic arguments during a period of his life; e.g. in his argument with Karl Marx. He claimed that Marxist communism and finance capital worked together to promote the interests of Jews, a claim common among anti-Semites. Mikhail Bakunin repeated typical anti-semitic positions of the time, imagining, for instance, the Jews as
“ …one exploiting sect, one people of leeches, one single devouring parasite closely and intimately bound together not only across national boundaries, but also across all divergences of political opinion…[Jews have] that mercantile passion which constitutes one of the principle traits of their national character ”
Bakunin's bigotry was shared by some other radical socialists of the time. Proudhon's notebooks, for example, contain a passage in which he calls for the expulsion or extermination of the Jews from Europe. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Bakunin#Anti-semitism)
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Yes, I was quoting and translating from a 1983 reprint, to which Rubel added a postcript, of his original 1973 article. I don't think the 12-page postcript has been translated into English. But the wikipedia contributor is quoting from the same work by Bakunin about the Jews as a group being leeches and parasites.
Before you folks dismiss national-anarchism as a crypto-fascist conspiracy, you might want to at least give some of its ideas a fair hearing.
http://www.attackthesystem/com/nationalanarchism.html
Fascism is a specific type of system where state and capital are welded together in a corporatist economy, with the subordination of labor, and militaristic belligerence. That has nothing to do with national-anarchism, the idea of decentralized communities oriented towards the particular.
admin: link broken
Hello gents,
As a National Anarchists I should warn you that everything you know about anarchism is wrong. I am, as an anarchist, allowed the dignity as a human being to right to self-determination of who I am and what my identity is while I am on this planet. As such I have found a political tendency that specifies that I am allowed to define my tribal or national identity however I see fit. This outlook is commonly referred to as National Anarchy. I think that term is not always accurate and I tend to call it Tribal Anarchy. The tribe I am interested in looks like me, natively speaks my language, and shares my religious values. Thats not to say that other tribes are less valuable, just not my primary interest in life. I seek to create autonomous communities of my tribe to resist statist oppression and live in the world according to the values of organic life. Economically I am a syndicalist and advocate non-globalist forms of self-managed worker collectives. I'm not interested in persecuting other tribes but I am more than willing to defend my own from outsiders aggression. You can find out more about the network of National Anarchists I am involved in at www.bayareana/tionalanarchists.com As I expect to be banned by your moderators, there is a forum that you can choose to discuss these ideas further in that website.
For revolution,
RexRegex
admin: link broken
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The tribe I am interested in looks like me, natively speaks my language, and shares my religious values.
Which tribe would that be? What colour does your hair have to be to join? What do you think of the influx of people from Europe and Asia into the Bay Area? Do you think they should be sent home to their tribal homelands?
And what are your religious values?
capricorn wrote:
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The tribe I am interested in looks like me, natively speaks my language, and shares my religious values.Which tribe would that be?
The one that I claim to be my own.
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What colour does your hair have to be to join?
Any.
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What do you think of the influx of people from Europe and Asia into the Bay Area?
Marvelous.
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Do you think they should be sent home to their tribal homelands?
Perhaps, if only for short term educational value.
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And what are your religious values?
I do not discuss my religion on political forums.
I agree there is stuff written by Proudhon and Bakunin that would back up these guys' world view, I'd also say that some 'anarcho-primitivists' who are probably considered comrades by people like Chuck0 and raw come pretty close to this. Imo it highlights the potential for reaction in any form of anarchism which isn't specifically communist.
Oh and Nat Anarchists we are libertarian communists on here - you won't have much joy with us. We see class as the basis of liberation and any form of national, racial or 'tribal' identity simply as a means of dividing us from other workers and making us feel a common cause with our own oppressors.
Having some views on patriotism, etc. that are rather unique for an anarchist (thought not for most people), I'm particularly bothered by these so-called "anarcho"-nationalists that are trying to take advantage of the increase in interest in anarchism. The leaders of this fake "anarchism" are Keith Preston (USA), Troy Southgate (UK), Richard Hunt (UK), Peter Topfer (Germany), Hans Cany (France), and Flavio Goncalves (Portugal). What is worrying is that Keith Preston at least is trying to give his ideas legitimacy by hooking up to the tendency to bridge the gap between the libertarian "right" and "left" (as Kevin Carson is trying to do). It's all very fishy. Websites trying to link Bakunin and Julius Evola, Proudhon and Alain de Benoist, Kropotkin and Otto Strasser. Strange shit.
Any thoughts? It seems to have grown out of hippy-dippy "anarchism", at least in the UK - Richard Hunt, Southgate's comrade-in-arms, was part of that "Green Anarchist" scene. But elsewhere...? Where the hell does this crap come from?