Hi
Ho ho. Easy tiger. Having said that, a propensity to irrationally take remarks personally is something animalists and anarchists seem to share. I wonder if there is a genetic marker for it. I expect all vegans, train-spotters and “communists concerned about social problems” have a bloodline traceable to John the Baptist or something.
Love
LR
HiHo ho. Easy tiger. Having said that, a propensity to irrationally take remarks personally is something animalists and anarchists seem to share. I wonder if there is a genetic marker for it. I expect all vegans, train-spotters and “communists concerned about social problems” have a bloodline traceable to John the Baptist or something.
Love
LR
He lazy riser,
didn't mean for it to look like i took your comment personally, i'm not all heart sore or anything from it. I just wanted to let you know I never said I was "against suffering". Thats all. Although I think the best way to raise livestock is in a way that doesn't cause the animal discomfort (until slaughter of course, but even that can be minimalized).
Hi
We should grow 'em on sticks without brains at all. I suggest we introduce discomfort quotas that could be traded between firms like carbon emissions. The earned credits could be used to help ramp up blood sports. Very tasty notion given moves to make gambling easier in pubs and the like.
I wonder if it’s a myth that frightened animals taste more gamey.
Love
LR
I wonder if it’s a myth that frightened animals taste more gamey.
Hi,
i don't think its a myth. If they are scared before they die I imagine they fill up with some sort of fear juice. Whether this "fear juice" effects the taste in a positive or negative way depends on how you like your meat. I personally prefer wild game (elk, deer, antelope) over ranch animals, partly because of the "gamey taste".
I personally prefer wild game (elk, deer, antelope) over ranch animals, partly because of the "gamey taste".
Same here. Man nothin' better than moose burritos!
I like wild, eh...vegetables, herbs and flowers. And seeing and being with animals in their own habitat but not eating them if I don't have to. :naive hippy smile:
I like wild, eh...vegetables, herbs and flowers.
Do they taste better after you threaten them a bit?
Hi
fear juice
I boshed some back in ’86 as it happens. Ho ho. Adrenachol. Very Hunter S. I'm sure.
We had all the momentum; we were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave. You can go up a steep hill in Hackney and almost see Class War’s high water mark – that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
Love
LR
Volin wrote:
I like wild, eh...vegetables, herbs and flowers.Do they taste better after you threaten them a bit?
its true, plants fear juice certainly makes them taste better. An idle threat from a human usually wont do the trick though. The plants really respond to shortening days, and early morning frosts of an approaching winter season. Catch when the litte buggers are thinking about winter, and your golden.
Volin wrote:
I like wild, eh...vegetables, herbs and flowers.Do they taste better after you threaten them a bit?
its true, plants fear juice certainly makes them taste better. An idle threat from a human usually wont do the trick though. The plants really respond to shortening days, and early morning frosts of an approaching winter season. Catch them when the litte buggers are thinking about winter, and your golden.
Refused wrote:
Volin wrote:
I like wild, eh...vegetables, herbs and flowers.Do they taste better after you threaten them a bit?
its true, plants fear juice certainly makes them taste better. An idle threat from a human usually wont do the trick though. The plants really respond to shortening days, and early morning frosts of an approaching winter season. Catch them when the litte buggers are thinking about winter, and your golden.
Well, I think it's obvious that this thread has been derailed to obscurity. Then again, most of what was going on when it was on topic had to do with non-sequitors, as opposed to the meaningful discussion I was hoping for. I apologize to jason and probably some others, who didn't get the serious response they probably deserve, since by the time they came up I've lost the strength to make sense of it all. Still, I think I've got some food for thought, and I'll try to formulate an improved OP for the next time around. Thanks for playing.
One important point that I think all you anti-AR types need to consider is the fact that a lot of AR/AL people are open to the idea that capitalism is the driving force behind most of the wrongs that they detect, and that once you convince them that there is a class analysis that can give them a real way towards overthrowing that, they'll be all for it.
Yes, AR/AL activists are more in tune with bourgeois tactics, either reformism or insurrectionism, which make more practical sense when you're trying to help creatures that cannot emancipate themselves, but that doesn't mean that they cannot be made to appreciate the merits of class struggle; moreover, I do think that there is a potential of using such struggle for AR/AL purposes, with the added benifit from your point of view of recruiting more people into working class politics.
Hi
Well, I think it's obvious that this thread has been derailed to obscurity.
In the same way as it’s “obvious” that the mass production of cow’s milk is wrong.
Then again, most of what was going on when it was on topic had to do with non-sequitors, as opposed to the meaningful discussion I was hoping for.
One can only wonder at the content of the meaningful discussion you had in mind. Perhaps, you could outline what you’d like us all to post. If you cited some of these non-sequitors it would give us the opportunity to demonstrate how they do, indeed, follow.
I've lost the strength to make sense of it all.
Bless.
One important point that I think all you anti-AR types need to consider is the fact that a lot of AR/AL people are open to the idea that capitalism is the driving force behind most of the wrongs that they detect
No doubt using the same magical sense that detects the general meaning of suffering. I don’t trust their judgement frankly.
and that once you convince them that there is a class analysis that can give them a real way towards overthrowing that, they'll be all for it.
Grim. The milieu already has more that its fair share of animalists, encouraging them will only make it worse.
Yes, AR/AL activists are more in tune with bourgeois tactics, either reformism or insurrectionism, which make more practical sense when you're trying to help creatures that cannot emancipate themselves, but that doesn't mean that they cannot be made to appreciate the merits of class struggle
Comrade, did you pick up on the Larry Law thing? The ALF emerged from the anarchist ghetto to begin with. Last time I looked, they don’t want them back.
Love
LR
I apologize to jason and probably some others, who didn't get the serious response they probably deserve
You don't have to apologise to me dude, I'm pretty casual.
if i send you some links to Chinese folks blogs, to chinese love poems, music, theatre, film, memorial pages to dead friends and family, to chinese politics and history,Wonder why you seem to have so much interest in Chinese culture, hmm, boy??
will you send me some by Oxen?
Just for you, if I had the skills, I would devise and put up a whole "Oxen Struggle" website with pics, news, chat, forums etc...I would call it something like "Breaking the Yoke..
The fact that I have to even begin to list only a miniscule of things that making it perfectly clear I have more in common with chinese people than ox is beyond the surreal.
Yeah but you did it anyway.. 
I have to say tho that I DO feel i have more in common with "beasts of burden" than i do with wealthy, healthy peeps with easy lives...as i toil away in my day-to-day life..so i am gonna change my tagline..
Love
LW X
TOJ
Your OP was just fine IMHO, boy. You did well. AR is easiest the hardest issue to argue for on this site so yeah - one step at a time, Rome wasn't built in a day etc etc.
Love
LW X
AR he tried to argue thatwe have more in common with fucking oxen than with chinese people, how exactly is that doing well?
Are they enriching tofu with lead lately or what?
Yeah but you know what they say, once you go yak you never go back.
TOJYour OP was just fine IMHO, boy. You did well. AR is easiest the hardest issue to argue for on this site so yeah - one step at a time, Rome wasn't built in a day etc etc.
Love
LW X
Oh, I guess it was okay, but the point was to start a discussion, participate, reasses my views as a result, then start all over again. I think I do have a better understanding now of what it is exactly about AR/AL that bothers people here, and there has been food for thought. Considering the fact that the milieu I'm usually around in Israel is almost entirely made up of people with AR/AL leanings, this experience was refreshing, like a cold shower.
AR he tried to argue thatwe have more in common with fucking oxen than with chinese people, how exactly is that doing well?Are they enriching tofu with lead lately or what?
That's a blatant misrepresenation of my statement (or, rather, question), which went like:
You have a different skin-color and probably physiognomy than working-class Chinese. They probably express their suffering in a different way than you. Why are they closer in experience to you than oxen pulling a plow?
which, in turn, came as a response to:
With animals its different. I pity them when they're being hurt - they're passive. I think it's too bad, all that unnecessary suffering. But I share no experiences, no interests, no nothing with them - we're different species, right?
Oh, and I love you, too. Woops, must be the lead talking.
Its blantantly obvious that all animal suffering and exploitation is linked to the ruling class. Medical experimentation for huge drug companies, meat processing plants, the hunting activities of the landed class etc. All deny animal rights because it is convenient to their profits. To stop animal exploitation requires the overthrow of capitalism. I am a vegan which minimises animal suffering for my part but I reject the ridiculous notion that humans need to consume animal flesh in order to recieve the right amount of protein etc...this is just another myth projected by the meat companies who stand to gain from the slaughter of innocents. If you truly rejected capitalism you wouldnt eat meat or dairy or eggs as it reinforces their hold over us!
If you truly rejected capitalism you wouldnt eat meat or dairy or eggs as it reinforces their hold over us!
how, exactly?
(i used to live near whitecross, btw 
)
Edit: this is becoming a catchphrase of mine, but i am vegan too btw
AR he tried to argue thatwe have more in common with fucking oxen than with chinese people, how exactly is that doing well?
I was referring in the main to his specific point about the construction of his OP which did not mention Chinese peeps or oxen....and if you are gonna mention this again you could at least acknowledge my post to you in which i was willing to construct you your very own oxen site.. And we are not all as Orientalist as you, y'know..
Love
LW X
the more i read from animals rights folks the tastier my burgers are.
Revol
That is only cos Conor has secretly been swopping them all for veggie-burgers...
Now, you see, you've all been responding to me as if I'd said what 2existis2resist has said.
Compare his post to the OP, and we'll move on from that on the next thread.
No, we haven't all been responding to you as if you'd written what 2existis2resist wrote. You have spent your last few posts playing the victim of misunderstanding. You have come in for some unfortunate flak but you are at least as guilty as others of avoiding or summarily dismissing opposing arguments.
I have given this topic a great deal of thought, as much I venture to say as you have, and I have come to different conclusions, conclusions not based on industrial farming or ignorance of animals and ecology.
As to the rant of 2existis2resist: look mate do you wear cotton? Do you drive? Do you use high technology that necessitates poor fuckers going down copper mines? As the man said in the song, every little thing contains a hidden tragedy. Your post is incredibly arrogant and disrespectful; it is completely ignorant of the extent to which we are all tied up in systems of exploitation, social and ecological destruction.
Here's the thing: with the end of capitalism and the state I would be content to leave you to your veganic lifestyle, you would not be content to leave me to pursue my chosen lifestyle. I tell you, the night you come to "liberate" my (or my commune's) chickens you will be making a very grave mistake!
... you are at least as guilty as others of avoiding or summarily dismissing opposing arguments.
Fine. Ou' wi' i'. Which opposing arguments have I avoided or summarily dismissed?
You're having a laugh. I am not going to rehearse this whole thread again. And here's why: because whilst people who do not accept the philosophical foundations of veganism or ar are often willing to give ground and at least look to improve the standards of animal husbandry and reduce use of animal products, I sense no movement in the position of ar/vegan diehards. Your response is "leave those chickens alone", or in other words "live like me, I am right you are wrong! Anathema!"
Hi
Compare his post to the OP
It follows. What he is saying is that animal libbers are self defeating, because they make animal "abuse" more enjoyable due to the pleasure to be taken in bucking their indignation.
This has dire consequences for the viability of “animal liberation as a tool against capitalism”. In the league table of political relevance the animal libbers are pretty close to the anarchists though, you can see why certain sections might favour closer integration.
Having said that, anarchism has been crying out for the death-blow for a while now. Perhaps an renewed influx of animal libbers is just what it needs to finally put it out of its misery.
Love
LR
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never said i was of the position "against suffering". I only offered a suggestion to revol on how to get "safer" food, by means of healthier animals.