Another thrilling round of "Anarchism and Animal Rights

if it was more profitable to not exploit the workforce, capitalists would cease to be capitalists and then they wouldn't exploit the workforce

Better?

Which is why I said it's a contentless statement: it's true but it's not meaningful.

Fuck you type fast.

Have a wank? Smoke some crack?

I'm used to replying to threads faster than everyone else.

Let's eliminate it then, squire. 8)

I was eating a bacon toastie while poasting this morning.

What a great advert for anarchism you are. 8)

People take one look at a Marxist and will start waving black flags over their head and styling themselves as blackbloc death ninjas...

(oh and if you're not a marxist i give up trying to be witty)

The worst kind of hippy. Good night.

the other problem is that the implementation of new technology requires research and production. Without human labour capital has no surplus value.

When you gonna upgrade to Libcom (Essex branch) from 'Colchester Anarchist Group' btw?

Ooh or even Better, Libcom Essex Group (or Leg for short)

Aw that hasn't got a short snappy acronym .

And how can people bitch about Clsg? Noobs will just think they're being mean to Welsh people...

colchester solidarity group would be a good name 8)

Well the white sugar itself is actually vegan in that it contains no animal products and is strictly a plant food, ie it is just refined glucose. The hardcore vegans you're on about with that "well white sugar has bone char in it's manufacturing process" is veganism 101 for people who are just getting into. After a while most vegans stop giving a fuck about shite like that ie you can't stop car tire manufacturers using gelatine in the rubber so why fuckin martyr yourself avoiding cars. Most people I know employ a bit of practical common sense.

no it doesn't - Peanuts, Palm/Veg Oil, salt/seasalt - most good brands have nowt else in them. Some shitty brans in the states have sugar and other crap but proper peanut butter doesn't.

don't even know why I'm arguing this isn't really important, sorry.

edit for fucked up quotes

You've not answered this yet, just continued going on about my egg analogy.

Why is a ladybird eating an aphid particularly different to me eating a bantam egg, or catching a fish and cooking it (or just gutting, scaling and eating as sashimi with some vinegared rice)? I don't eat reconstituted, processed bovine flesh (and it's not really flesh in those burgers is it, just offal and gristle).

I think the meat industry is shit (as are most industries under capitalism), using the worst examples of the meat industry isn't an argument against meat per se, and that's what animal rights is. Avoiding unnecessary abuse doesn't necessarily mean ascribing rights.

We also punish those same humans with imprisonment, forced medication or death when they cross our societally imposed ethical framework. We don't have a legal system for cats when they kill mice. If you're going to stop humans killing other species, why not stop other species killing other species. Most cats don't have to kill mice to live either, foxes the same - kill 20 chickens, eat one.

animal oppression is no, not an intrinsic part of the capitalist economic system...a capitalist system that happily exploits its workforce but refrains from doing the same to animals is not impossible -within the realms of some wacko's fantasy. Because in reality, I think you'll find the exploitation of animals is tied up with the profiteering of capitalists and a large-scale, exploitative corporate economy. Sure, being a capitalist does not mean abusing animals for your own gain, but it is inevitable result of capitalism. To change that you could try and reform this system (theoretically possible), which is about as likely as the existence of a "green capitalism". Or you could realise the actual appliance of capitalism to the world very often leads to animal oppression but is not the main cause.

Likewise, to say that it could be "easily eliminated" is so far from the truth it pisses me off. It is the view of someone completely ignorant of the extent of using animals for our own gain. You even put oppression and abuse in inverted commas, is it because you dont accept the existence of large-scale animal suffering per se?

Clearly. Most anarchists would realise that "radical societal change" is not synonymous, alone, with the abolishing of capitalism. Society in all its characteristics, and the individual itself must be changed if we want to get anywhere -and indeed if we are to come close to eliminating animal oppression.

Best vegan sandwich: bread, hummous, roasted red peppers, lettuce and sunflower seeds. Mmmmmm.

And whoever said vegan cake is crap clearly never tasted our Baltimore comrade's cherry and chocolate cake, which is still one of the best cakes ever

hey, screw you. let's see you make a better cake, huh pretty boy?

I love you x6party6gurl6x

And I love your cake

Jack can't even make love, let alone cake.

If I can get my girl to take part, you're on.

i'm an anarchist and i believe in total social change - abolishing capitalism is a major part of that (though not all - we need to abolish the mechanisms of state power as well for instance) however i have no problem with the idea of an anarchist (or communist) society where 'oppression' of animals continues - i hope that in any rational society, testing medicines on animals would still occur, as would the production of meat and dairy products

yes jack. yes it is.

i challenge you to a vegan v. non-vegan cake cook off.

but you've gotta cook the cake. no runnin home to mama.

pretty boy.

we have proper chocolate, ice cream, cream and butter cream filling, what do vegans have? ....sultanas? carrot? jesus you lot are hopeless

details, details.

i knew you couldn't stand the heat.

i give mark my blessings.

oh jesus christ, that is so much liberal cack, how does boycotting meat products have anything to do with anarchism?

Look they're animals, i mean hell i'm a very lax vegetarian and i can understand arguements about animal welfare and some of the environmental problems caused by intensive animal farming, but firstly i wouldn't connect those views in any way shape or form to my political views and secondly, animal ''liberation'', what the fuck?! they're just a bunch of animals, they aren't capable of concious thought, if they were ''liberated'' they'd just go off and starve somewhere, i mean take bees, we NEED bees in order to work agriculture, do you actually give a crap that bees are locked up over night and their flight paths are controlled, personally i couldn't give a toss. If you ''liberated'' all the bees, large chunks of the human race would starve.

Its been said before on the thread and it shoudl be said again

Humans > Animals. I mean that is the very basis of any genuine form of socialism; That humans have evolved beyond a natural state and through social evolution have become ''better'' than animals and are therefore able to reach the goal of a co-operative society.

can i recomend that all the AR scum set up a gazelle liberation front to rescue the poor animals from the nasty lions

^with arguments like that, people like me dont really need to bother.

no that's Social Darwinism.

What? You really are a dork aren't you? Social Darwinism means applying theories of natural superiority within the human race, hence Social Darwinism.

um, yes that's the implication.

"We evolved to be where we are, above the everything else and the most important thing in the universe. We can do whatever the hell we like".

Have a closer look Volin:

I said within the human race dipshit, e.g. saying certain human beings are naturally superior to others. It has nothing to do with humanity as a whole being superior, which it is.