Anti Racist Action/Anti Fascist Action
Apr 5 2006 23:56
What do you think of these types of methods? Personally, I'm not sure that fighting with nazis, however fun it might be, will accomplish anything. I think their efforts would be better spent fighting the government.
Apr 6 2006 00:03
#2
It's more than fun, it can be seen as an exercise in tactics....not that nazis offer much of a challenge. Most importantly, It's the right thing to do. It creates opportunities for like minded people of all ethnicities to demonstrate and feel the poweer of solidarity in struggle.
Apr 6 2006 00:04
#3
Lab Rat wrote:
nazis/racists need to get battered. period
I agree, but do you think it actually helps? That was my question.
Apr 6 2006 00:11
#4
It has helped in this country. The NF are nothing near the force they were and the BNP are unable to organise openly throughout much of the country. Read this:
Apr 6 2006 00:23
#5
Our everyday manifesto entry on fascism here:
http://libcom.org/thought/manifesto/fascism/index.php
...gives libcom's views on the matter.
Basically in the summary it says (in this order of importance):
Quote:
5. To stop the growth of fascism we need toa. Fill the vacuum left by the destruction of the unions, and organise to begin to solve our problems collectively as a class, sticking together regardless of race or nationality.
b. Combat the BNP’s lies that they have anything to offer British working people, and expose their fascist core
c. Physically confront them and prevent them organising on the ground or spreading their message.
Apr 6 2006 00:24
#6
I'd class it as working class self-defence and would therefore support it.
As Alan said, a lot of the hard work has been done in this country.
Apr 6 2006 00:26
#7
I think it's also important that people don't view AntiFA as solely a bunch of streetfightin' men (heh). That's only one tactic of militant anti-fascism.
Apr 6 2006 08:26
#8
the main goal of militant antifa tactics is to create the space for other (agreed more important) battles to be fought.
Apr 6 2006 08:45
#9
Quote:
nazis/racists need to get battered. period
i don't think mensturation has anything to do with this discussion 
seriously, it has its place. but now a lot of nazis are getting all suited up and pretending to be respectable, it is generally tactically a bad move that can potentially play into their hands.
in the 80s when it was all about who has a bigger presence on the streets it was probably more important and effective. that said, it is important to be open to all tactics, and look at them according to each new situation as it arises.
i don't think that militant antifascism is/should be dead, but the playing field has changed recently and people should adjust to it. afa was so effective in its heyday because of the context it was in at the time. i'm sure sometime in the next decade or so a lot of fascists will actually give up on parliamentary politics and there will be another rise in NF types. the british electoral system discriminates against small parties.
still, i'd love to give a fash a good kicking. certainly beats sitting in the library!
Apr 6 2006 10:24
#10
just wait for st.georges day to roll around. the meatheads will take to the street, and there will be more than one nazi among them...
Apr 6 2006 10:27
#11
true
i'm stwearding at the london marathon on st georges day so i'll keep my eyes peeled for nazi marathon runners 
Apr 6 2006 12:27
#12
ftony wrote:
seriously, it has its place. but now a lot of nazis are getting all suited up and pretending to be respectable, it is generally tactically a bad move that can potentially play into their hands.
How so?? Surely if they get embroiled in street violence it does them more damage than us?? After all, they're the ones attempting to forge careers as "respectable" politicians. Either they don't fight back and get the shit kicked out of them (and receive minimal sympathy from the public) or they fight back and are exposed as street thugs.
Apr 6 2006 12:33
#13
no cos 'they were just defending themselves from lefty thugs'
Apr 6 2006 12:46
#14
ftony wrote:
no cos 'they were just defending themselves from lefty thugs'
That's not how it works. If they're involved with any violence it tars their respectable image. That's why they've kept very quiet about all the attacks on them...
K-TownBootboy:
Quote:
the main goal of militant antifa tactics is to create the space for other (agreed more important) battles to be fought.
This is what UK AFA used to say, but now it's a completely false point. Fascists do not prevent any kind of w/c self-activity in this country now - and AFAIK AFA people at the time eventually changed their minds on this point and dropped that idea...
Apr 7 2006 15:21
#15
But unfortunately, the fascists have got seats on councils in various parts of the country, and it is our responilbility as Anti-Fascist activists to take the meatheads on, whether that is at the ballot box, or on the streets. I'm not really bothered, as I'd rather round them all up, and their cheerleaders and shoot the fuckers, personally. They have no argument, everything, fucking everything that those goose-steeping, SS supporting retards say is just fucking wrong, and if the media don't like the tactics that AFA dish out to the bastards, then tough shit.
Apr 7 2006 15:32
#16
Commie Bobbie wrote:
it is our responilbility as Anti-Fascist activists to take the meatheads on
hey, don't paint all meatheads with same colour 
JDMF - meat free meathead
Apr 7 2006 15:40
#17
AFA
has a place in that there are more lements than just the government that need to be combated, AFA also does community work, it could do more for sure, but the principle of making safe space is important. When the government lets right wing groups exist you need to defedn your communities and allies, even if fighting sucks and hurts us it is ncessary. A broken community will never change.
Apr 7 2006 16:20
#18
"the only way the rise of national socialism could have been stopped is if we had been met with the most violent of force from the very begining" -Adolf Hilter.
Apr 7 2006 16:23
#19
revolutionrugger wrote:
"the only way the rise of national socialism could have been stopped is if we had been met with the most violent of force from the very begining" -Adolf Hilter.
the communist aligned with the nazis to fight the social democrats, blame it on those fucking idiots.
Apr 7 2006 19:09
#20
RevolutionReversal wrote:
revolutionrugger wrote:
"the only way the rise of national socialism could have been stopped is if we had been met with the most violent of force from the very begining" -Adolf Hilter.the communist aligned with the nazis to fight the social democrats, blame it on those fucking idiots.
come again??
Apr 8 2006 11:24
#21
K-TownBootboy wrote:
RevolutionReversal wrote:
revolutionrugger wrote:
"the only way the rise of national socialism could have been stopped is if we had been met with the most violent of force from the very begining" -Adolf Hilter.the communist aligned with the nazis to fight the social democrats, blame it on those fucking idiots.
come again??
Er, yeah or he could blame it on something that *actually* happened 
Apr 8 2006 15:18
#22
I'm absolutely serious, both sides thought it was better to eliminate the social democrats first and did so, then they fought eachother, for a few months commies and nazis weren't attacking eachother.
It was aprt of this book:
Apr 8 2006 15:40
#23
RevolutionReversal wrote:
I'm absolutely serious, both sides thought it was better to eliminate the social democrats first and did so, then they fought eachother, for a few months commies and nazis weren't attacking eachother.
Did the communists "align with the nazis"?
No.
Apr 8 2006 23:05
#24
John. wrote:
ftony wrote:
no cos 'they were just defending themselves from lefty thugs'That's not how it works. If they're involved with any violence it tars their respectable image. That's why they've kept very quiet about all the attacks on them...
Exactly. It does them more damage than us.
Quote:
K-TownBootboy:Quote:
the main goal of militant antifa tactics is to create the space for other (agreed more important) battles to be fought.This is what UK AFA used to say, but now it's a completely false point. Fascists do not prevent any kind of w/c self-activity in this country now - and AFAIK AFA people at the time eventually changed their minds on this point and dropped that idea...
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Some might think you're suggesting that AFA and its successor(s) should only exist in order to offer physical resistance to fascism?? Cos I think it's crucial that any anti-fascist group understands that that is only a short-term solution, and participates in organising to remove the social problems that induced people towards fascism in the first place.
Apr 13 2006 18:18
#25
Alan-thats why the idea of an anarchist anti-fascist group is so important, if fascism, as opposed to just fascist groups, are to be confronted then a decent knowledge of the origins of fascism as an ideology that is inherently against the wokring classes and their organisation for autonomy is essential. We arent fighting fascists solely because of their racist politics and not because of their contempt for republican politics or this or that left wing grouping but primarily, because fascism as an ideology and practice is inherently opposed to the aim of an international workers direct democracy.
Apr 13 2006 18:24
#26
blah. Dude. Neo-nazis come into neighborhoods and beat up gays, blacks, and harass and rape women, and have been known to kill the homeless. THATS WHY WE BEAT THEM UP.
Apr 13 2006 19:30
#27
Quote:
Dude. Neo-nazis come into neighborhoods and beat up gays, blacks, and harass and rape women, and have been known to kill the homeless. THATS WHY WE BEAT THEM UP.
but if they were to dress up in suits, stand for election and propose policies that discriminate against ethnic minorities, homosexuals and divide and weaken the working class as a whole, then everything would be hunky, right?
Apr 13 2006 20:42
#28
Let me clarify
When I write that the main goal of militant antifa tactics is to create the space for other (agreed more important) battles to be fought. I'm not suggesting that, that is all that militant antifa tactics is about. I mean that this is the first objective of any AFA/ARA/Etc. group (or it should be in my optics).
If as you say John they no longer pose a threath then, the group can move on to other ways of fighting racism and facism i.e. refugee solidarity, community work or what ever there is to be done in the area where said AFA/ARA/Etc. group/movement is located.
It is ofcourse also possible that the antifa in an area can combine different ways of working i.e. fighting the nazis in the street and running a No Border/No Nation campaing.
Quote:
I think it's crucial that any anti-fascist group understands that that is only a short-term solution, and participates in organising to remove the social problems that induced people towards fascism in the first place.
no argument there.
Apr 13 2006 20:48
#29
Vaneigemappreciationclub wrote:
Quote:
Dude. Neo-nazis come into neighborhoods and beat up gays, blacks, and harass and rape women, and have been known to kill the homeless. THATS WHY WE BEAT THEM UP.but if they were to dress up in suits, stand for election and propose policies that discriminate against ethnic minorities, homosexuals and divide and weaken the working class as a whole, then everything would be hunky, right?
You forgot the part about the armed might of the state, which neccesitates a more mediated struggle, pending us having more fire power.
Apr 13 2006 21:44
#30
John. wrote:
RevolutionReversal wrote:
I'm absolutely serious, both sides thought it was better to eliminate the social democrats first and did so, then they fought eachother, for a few months commies and nazis weren't attacking eachother.Did the communists "align with the nazis"?
No.
yes they made a truce and stopped fighting battles with eachother on the stree to defeat the socialists and the social democrats, hitlers rise to power happended because the communist helpped defeat the social democrats in power.
nazis/racists need to get battered. period