Bans (Barkanine)

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Devrim's picture
Devrim
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May 9 2007 07:37
Bans (Barkanine)
John. wrote:
The ban was for nationalism, support for Hamas, etc. calling anarchists anti-communists, saying the AF's writings on communists were like Hitler's on the Jews, and various other similar things.

I'd still like to know why this poster, Barkanine, was banned. I don't agree with his politics at all, particularly on the question of Palestine/Israel/Lebanon, but his nationalism on this subject was no worse than that of other posters who continue to post on here. On the point of HAMAS, I am sure that Wayne Price would support them at some level, and he isn't banned (nor do I think he should be). On the points about the AF, he wrote:

[

Barkanine wrote:
you went far to find that link didn't you?

1. Written by the AF.
whys that bad?
It's biased, they're anarchists, notoriously anti-communist... it's like getting Hitler to write soemthing pleasent about the jewish faith.

Ok, so the AF are anarchist communists, but the idea that anarchist are anti-communist is one (mistakenly) held by lots of leftists. I think that the reference to Hitler is just an analogy saying that the AF aren't sympathetic to Guevara, which they aren't (nor am I). He could have equally wrote that it is like getting Arsne Wenger to write about Jose Mourinho. Has he been banned for being a member of the Communist League? Members of other leftist groups (e.g. the SWP, and the AWL) post on here.

In short, I am not clear about thy he has been banned, and it seems to be a very inconsistent policy. Why has he been banned for things that others aren't banned for?

Devrim

knightrose
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May 9 2007 09:01

Why should someone be banned for saying nasty things about the AF? We're big enough to look after ourselves.

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Steven.
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May 9 2007 10:07

Yeah hard as glass and whatnot.

Well the cheerleading of nationalism, and insults of non-nationalists, surpassed anyone else on here, apart from possibly gurrier, but the rate of posts was much higher than gurrier. And gurrier is in a group which some people here have friendly relations with.

People in other trot groups do also post here, but again not to the same extent he began to. We don't have a problem with Leninists posting here, but headbanging ones flooding the site won't be tolerated unless they add something to discussion. Which when combined with other oddities like the constant use of "wetbacks" we didn't think s/he would. That said if people are particularly upset by this we could give him/her a second chance.

Due to various personal issues non of the admins have much time for this shit at the moment.

thugarchist's picture
thugarchist
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May 9 2007 10:32
revol68 wrote:
Jack wrote:
My opinion is that people from Leninist groups are here on a tolerance. Their politics are clearly opposed to the MO of the site, but if they're sound (like say, IrrationallyAngry), then they don't get banned. If they start acting a nob, then they get banned a lot quicker than a libertarian communist would be.

what about that cunt thugarist then?

Yeah. Ban that fucker too!

thugarchist's picture
thugarchist
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May 9 2007 10:44

Did you say best nude poser?

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Lone Wolf
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May 9 2007 18:55
thugarchist wrote:
Did you say best nude poser?

grin

t , you are great!! You and i might not agree on all isues but i am liking your straightforward style...

also i have met gurrier and he seemed pretty damn inoffensive to me..tho we didn't chat about nationalism tbh...

Love

LW X

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georgestapleton
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May 9 2007 19:58

gurrier is amazing but he just trolls on this site.

Although it would be amazing if you banned gurrier.

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OliverTwister
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May 9 2007 20:27

What about Kevin Keating - surely he was way more insulting that Barkanine, and he was spreading specific slander about people while refusing to back it up.

Mike Harman
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May 9 2007 21:44

Kevin Keating was warned, I don't think he offended after that, although tbh I've not had time to follow those threads, so he could have. Links please.

The main reason I personally didn't ban him when those threads started was

1. he's submitted content (and other people have added his stuff) t to the library, which makes me reluctant to ban him. http://libcom.org/tags/kevin-keating

2. because other users registered just to slag him off, and some regular users just insulted and slagged him off as well.

3. It looks like a complex local situation to me between a load of people who know each other in real life, and impossible to moderate effectively, so to be honest I warned then left you all to it rather than handing out at least 2 permanent bans.

4.both KK and at least one other poster arguing with him both posted up a poster's real name without their permission, which meant a fair amount of work to remove it from the database (and the editing of several posts individually as well). Since this was done by both sides, it was warn both or ban both.

5. most of the argument's been confined to two threads afaik, so although we do take slander and stuff seriously (although we don't always have enough time to actually deal with it, only a couple of us have net access at the moment, and I'm one of them worrying about the site staying up, let alone what's on it atm).

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thugarchist
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May 9 2007 21:48

Keating might be an asshole, but why would that call for banning him? I mostly disagree with him politically, but its not like he hasn't added legitimate political content to the world (that I disagree with).

Mike Harman
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May 9 2007 22:08

I think the people asking for him to be banned was because of the fare strike spat. Like I said, I don't understand half of that argument because I'm a few thousand miles away, so are all the other admins. If personal information gets posted, that's bannable if it happens more than a couple of times on purpose, but unless it's trolling (i.e. disrupting multiple threads on the site, and spilling over everywhere, which it isn't in this case), then we wouldn't normally ban just for people slagging each other off. We (libcom admins) have had various ongoing spats with some posters on here for about four years now, none of them have been banned.

And yeah, if people are submitting/arguing stuff that's decent, and being arseholes, they get much more leeway than people who are just arseholes. We don't pretend to be consistent about this stuff because it's impossible to do so, not that we do inconsistency all that well either.

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OliverTwister
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May 10 2007 07:10

I didn't know he was warned, i don't think hes been an ass since then.

Who registered 'just to slag him off'? The only person I think this could mean is 'Comrade Motobu', who did not slag Kevin off at all but defended the fare strike group.

Kevin did accuse a real person of sexually harassing someone, and never provided any evidence. IMO this is much more than 'slagging off', and on the scum-o-meter is not far behind accusing Venezuelan anarchists of working for the CIA (and then leaving out the evidence). As I said, I don't think he's kept it up but it is extremely serious.

As far as posting someone's name up i'm sure both posters didn't think about it while doing it, and Comrade Motobu at least apologized.

Mike Harman
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May 10 2007 08:31
OliverTwister wrote:
I didn't know he was warned, i don't think hes been an ass since then.

OK that's good.

Quote:
Who registered 'just to slag him off'? The only person I think this could mean is 'Comrade Motobu', who did not slag Kevin off at all but defended the fare strike group.

No, I meant Sam Diego.

Quote:
Kevin did accuse a real person of sexually harassing someone, and never provided any evidence. IMO this is much more than 'slagging off', and on the scum-o-meter is not far behind accusing Venezuelan anarchists of working for the CIA (and then leaving out the evidence). As I said, I don't think he's kept it up but it is extremely serious.

Like I said, links please, I don't have enough will to live to read any more of that thread.

Quote:
As far as posting someone's name up i'm sure both posters didn't think about it while doing it, and Comrade Motobu at least apologized.

In the context of any accusations being made I'd say that's as least serious than the accusations themselves. What with google and all.

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OliverTwister
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May 13 2007 01:40
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It's nice to see that olivertwister --or is it oliver north? -- can actually attempt to engage with the substance of an argument, instead of whinning for his mommy to censor others perspectives.

?

Mike Harman
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May 13 2007 06:55

Thanks for the link and the explanation Oliver, that's really helpful.

On the assumption that that's your real name, rather than another pseudonym from elsewhere (which has occasionally come up as an issue), I've given KK a final warning. The fact you've quoted it yourself twice without removing your name from it makes me think you don't really care though to be honest. But some kind of explanatory note would help.

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madashell
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May 13 2007 11:56

Oliver North? confused

Mike Harman
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May 13 2007 12:17

ah I thought I recognised the name.

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OliverTwister
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May 13 2007 16:06

Sorry catch i just assumed you knew who Oliver North was.

And sorry for not posting the link.

Mike Harman
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May 13 2007 16:09

No I did know who he was, but not for the 20 minutes I was trying to work out your post. embarrassed I was rudely awoken this morning and that was the first thing I looked at on the internet.

And no I don't think we can ban him for that, horrible comparison though it is.

IDP
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May 15 2007 00:17

The following posts reveal people's real names and the completely unsubstantiated accusation amounts to "snitchjacketing." This involves a woman who felt threatened by Kevin Keating and went to the court system to take out a legal restraining order to prevent him from having contact with her. It's fucking pathetic that Kevin treats it like a joke and tries to cast blame elsewhere.

Here are the posts:

Kevin Keating wrote:
Comrade Mobuto:

Tell the readers of this thread about how name removed the author of "Fare Strike! 2005, First-Hand Accounts...", and a habitual internet stalker -- used the e-mail address on the leaflets that we gave out to Muni operators, angryworkers@yahoo.com, to stalk and harass a woman from France named G********.

Kevin Keating

admin - posting up people's real names without their permission will get you banned, last warning

And note that his handle is "Comrade Motopu," not "Mobuto." None of us are in grade school anymore, so why not put an end to the immature namecalling and intentional misspelling of people's names.

Here's another posting, treating this serious situation like it's some kind of child's play:

Kevin Keating wrote:
Comrade Mobuto:

One of the anarchists involved in the Muni fare strike effort of 2005 gave GH, the author of the prolix and dishonest "FARE STRIKE! 2005..." the password to the leaflets we were giving out to Muni transit system employees.

This e-mail address was angryworkers@yahoo.com

G.H. then changed the password to this e-mail account.

G.H. then used this address to spam the internal discussion list -- and, more importantly, he harassed a woman using this e-mail account as well.

Having spread lies about me in this, blaiming me for the typically unbalanced and creepy antics of the guy who pulls your strings, you must now post copies of the harassing e-mails -- not including the e-mail address of the woman victimized by GH in this, but definitely including the e-mail address that the harassing e-mails came from.

No more typing practice from you, Mobuto; post the harassing e-mails now.

And if you weasel out of this, it is a public acknowledgedment by you that you are a liar, and that you have no integrity or credibility.

Post the harassing e-mails now, immediately -- right now.

Oh yes, your "source" in this is an academic Marxist named J***. I went out drinking with him a few times in San Francisco at the end of 2004, before he moved to NYC.

All the people mentioned above confirm that it is Kevin Keating, not anyone else, who is the perpetrator of this harassment. This kind of unprincipled snitchjacketing and unsubstantiated defamation is not appropriate on the internet -- or anywhere!

Moderators, please prevent these types of flame attacks on this forum.

Thanks,

IDP

Mike Harman
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May 15 2007 07:41

Hi,

I've removed GH's name from a number of posts now, not just Kevin Keating's, KK's also been warned about this. This was sufficient for the poster named as far as I know.

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MJ
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May 15 2007 12:24

Not calling for him to be banned, but since we're compiling general evidence of him being a loser, it looks like KK set up a second account ("jack straw") to act as a sock-puppet and agree with himself.

Mike Harman
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May 15 2007 13:56

links please.

sock puppet accounts get banned.

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OliverTwister
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May 15 2007 16:14

http://libcom.org/forums/history/three-stooges-account-failed-effort-foment-transit-system-fare-strike-san-francisco-2005?page=3

just search for jack straw.

Mike Harman
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May 15 2007 17:06

OK I pmed jack straw, if no satisfactory answer that account will be blocked.

A similar accusation was made against Alf (that "jaycee" was a second account when alf posted from it by mistake), jaycee is his son who we've actually met in real life. I don't think that's the case here though somehow.