Beyond an Ideal: Anarchism as a Political Movement - a Platf

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afraser
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Jul 16 2005 18:05
Beyond an Ideal: Anarchism as a Political Movement - a Platf

Beyond an Ideal: Anarchism as a Political Movement - a Platform for 21st Century Anarchism

Andrew Fraser (mail@afraser.com), July 2005

"For anarchism, the focus on global capitalism couldn't be more ideal. Yet, when the WTO mobilised tens of thousands of people, anarchism's visible high point was in the form of broken windows. My general excitement about Seattle hasn't dissipated but I am left with the impression of the anarchist activity as either an empty moralism, a practice devoid of theory, and as unwittingly giving energy to reformist politics. Anarchists need to move beyond these traps to formulate a theory of anarchism that will sustain a political movement. Aside from moral outrage, all anarchists have are demonstrations. We protest injustice and move from issue to issue. It is not enough that we do it in a decentralised fashion. We will go from protest to protest until we are tired or other obligations draw us away. We can also fall prey to disappointment over the commonly non-revolutionary outcome of protests. As a result of Seattle, Ralph Nader is running for president, unions are looking to Al Gore to meet their demands, and the hot topic is whether or not China should be a member of the WTO. Furthermore, non-anarchist groups have shaped the anarchist debate. Due to some broken windows, anarchists are forced to debate the role of violence because non-anarchists groups dubbed anarchists as vandals and looters. This is not what we want to put our energy towards. Can we avoid being foot soldiers for more powerful mainstream organisations and shape the anarchist debate ourselves? Anarchists must develop a theory of a free society with the intention of guiding ourselves from the means to the end, otherwise we will not be able to make the necessary step from idea to political movement and will end up fighting for things we do not believe in."

[Rebecca DeWitt, An Anarchist Response to Seattle: What Shall We Do With Anarchism? in Perspectives on Anarchist Theory, Vol. 4 – No. 1, Spring 2000, online at http://perspectives.anarchist-studies.org/7seattle.htm .]

THE OUTLOOK for anarchism as a political movement could not be more ideal. State socialism is dead as a political movement: a death that is both long overdue and highly deserved. Social Democrats also have run out of ideas following the failure of there more radical rival deology. Nevertheless, people are desperate for an alternative to runaway global capitalism. Anti-capitalism has appeared as a rallying cry for movements across the world, from the Seattle demonstrations onwards. Anti capitalist is often understood to mean anarchism in some form. But what do we have left if our only idea is to be anti-capitalists? We all know what we are against: but, much more importantly, what are we actually for? It is all too easy to criticise rampant global capitalism; but, without advocating an alternative, criticism signifies nothing.

Corporate power is overwhelming today. Across the world, corporate executives decide who and what is employed to do what tasks and to whose ultimate benefit. People matter less than the extension of power to corporate executives and than the growth in owners profit. Social decisions are simply not made under the current economic and political system. That is an extraordinary and amazing reality, or would be if we were not so used to thinking that we have no right to decide for ourselves. It leads to AIDS victims dying in vast numbers across Africa, while the drugs that could save them are sold expensively and in tiny numbers because more revenue is generated for pharmaceutical corporations in that way (by patents). It leads even or especially in developed economies, to up to half of those able to work being left unemployed – on starvation level benefits – because wage bills can be kept down when a reserve army of labour is in place. It leads to children working as slaves for foreign firms, who gleefully export away their former, local, employees jobs. It leads to the hungry suffering malnutrition, while mountains of food is pulped to keep the price artificially high, and because the needy lack the money to make the sale worthwhile. You can only imagine the economic system of Dr. Albert Speer, had it continued undefeated, as being equivalent. In the same way as we express astonishment at the Nazis who carried on quite happily because they were just obeying orders, who in the future will be able to believe that such a system as ours was tolerated today?

All this is well known and, unless and until an alternative is offered, continually re-stating is tedious and pointless.

But alternatives are on offer:

1) Democratic State Socialism (strictly is not an anarchist alternative) – is the same system currently prevailing in Cuba and North Korea, formerly in the USSR, Eastern Europe, China, and Viet Nam; except it has the additional improvement of having democratic elections for each government. Like those embarking on a second marriage, followers of this idea have been afflicted by the triumph of hope over experience. The failure of State Socialism was as much economic as political in nature, and state run enterprises in democratic states were and are every bit as inefficient and internally undemocratic as those in the entirely state socialist dictatorships. Democratising a failed system produces a democratic failed system, leading quickly to a vote to move away from the failed system altogether. State Socialism was most successful precisely when it was at its most tyrannical and terrorising, and failed most when its state terror was most relaxed – the terror was required to oil the wheels of an otherwise hopeless system.

2) Primitivism – involves returning to an ancient rural past of tiny primitive communist hamlets harvesting their own food and making their own clothing and manufactures locally. This will, its supporters admit, involve a massive ‘die-off’ of almost all the present population due to the end of modern food production methods and medical practice. On the plus side, the survivors would eat more wild nuts and berries than at present.

If those were all the alternatives on offer, capitalists should sleep easy in their beds. But there is more:

3) Anarcho-Communism (Libertarian Communism/Municipalism, Social Ecology) – is a less severe Primitivism. Society is to be organised into small communist cities, producing most of their own goods locally. Within each small city, incomes are equal, with distribution made on the communist principal according to need, not effort – there would be no money. Decisions on production and consumption would be made by popular assemblies of all citizens. Exchange between cities would also be on the basis of need, organised by confederations of many cities.

This is the modern version of the Anarchist Communism of Malatesta and Kropotkin, first proposed in 1876.

The obvious drawback is that exchange between localities, which allows economies of scale and is essential for production of many high tech goods, must either be controlled by a distant confederal bureaucracy, as in Democratic State Socialism; or happen through inter-community market trading, which would not be communist. For that reason, global production would be discouraged, even at the cost of economic efficiency. The resulting drop in wealth in the form of consumer goods would be severe, and that, while somewhat mitigated by what would be a more pleasant way of life, presents an enormous handicap to acceptance of this alternative.

4) Parecon (Participatory Economics, Anarcho-Syndicalism, Anarchist Collectivism) – is socialist rather than communist in that incomes are not equal, but are based on work and effort. With this it raises economic units from the small cities of Libertarian Communism to become global in scale. That is the only concession Parecon makes away from Libertarian Communism – markets, in particular, are forbidden. Decisions on consumption and production are instead made by assemblies of consumers and workers, guided by plans drawn up by professional Facilitation Boards’.

If that sounds like Democratic State Socialism, it is because it is a lot like Democratic State Socialism. Consumers and workers councils voting directly on different plans would greatly enhance the democratic nature of the planning decisions, but the economic inefficiencies inherent in planning a complex economy would persist. The major new lesson from the decline of the state socialist economies is that in complex economies, planning is inferior to market mechanisms for allocating resources. A further drawback is that preventing market trading by law enforcement agencies requires restrictions on individual liberty.

This is a more detailed version of the Anarchist Collectivism of Bakunin and his followers (although they did envisage a long transitional phase leading eventually to communism), and of the later Anarcho-Syndicalism. Santillan’s 1936 proposals, for example, appear identical – he named his facilitation boards ‘federal economic councils’.

These are more serious alternatives than the first two – but still does anyone believe that in the near future they could be publicly accepted? It is more important to be right than to be popular, of course – but it is better still to be both, and otherwise capitalists will continue to rest easy. However, a final alternative is on offer:

5) Market Socialism (Economic Democracy, Mutualism) – permits market trading and so removes the two drawbacks under Parecon, but at the cost of fairness: incomes are not based on effort in a market system; some become richer than they deserve while others become poorer. That is only a drawback relative to the systems above, not compared to the current capitalist system, which has much greater unfairness than just those resulting from markets – such as that arising from profit, interest, rent, wage labour.

Those five alternatives are not necessarily entirely distinct categories, but tend to blur into one another with people often picking and choosing particular aspects of each – market socialism with some planning, for example, or local anarcho-communism with planning or markets at the global scale. They do, however, cover the entire spectrum of socialist alternatives to capitalism as far as I am aware. If I am right, and the first four alternatives are substantially flawed, we are left with Market Socialism, or something based around it, as the only theory of a free society that could sustain an anarchist political movement now.

What would a market socialist, libertarian market socialist, society look like?

There would be no capitalists, financiers, landlords, or bosses; and no profit, interest, rent, or wage labour. Instead: worker owned businesses, financed by public banks, and with work in such businesses guaranteed as a right. Individual people and individual businesses would be free to buy and sell from each other at whatever prices they determined, in a market setting or by using non-market (or semi-market) alternatives as they saw fit.

Any profit made by a business would be distributed entirely to its worker-owners, who would also wield exclusive control over how their business was structured and what activities it engaged in. They would not, however, have right of alienation over their business, nor would they be able to hire wage-labourers – every worker would have the right to become a full worker-owner.

The public banks would pay no (real) interest on deposits, and would issue loans without requiring collateral – especially when seeking to achieve full employment. They could, and often would, issue loans far greater than the amount of deposits (if any) that they had – simply by creating money.

Land would be ultimately owned by the local community, but possession-ownership rights would be held by the individual (or co-operative business) using that land. Occupation and use would be a condition of such ownership – absentee landlords and letting at rent would be forbidden. Gains in land value would be retained by the community – land rights would not be alienable, just as in Community Land Trusts today.

Political structures would be as in democratic states just now, except that elected ‘representatives’ would be replaced with instantly recallable mandated delegates. Decisions would be made as locally as possible, with all non-administrative decisions requiring direct approval by citizen assemblies or referenda. Courts would be composed of juries selected by lot, with no presiding judges, and with right of appeal to full citizen assemblies. Political functions would be shrunk to the minimum compatible with life and freedom. All this is standard anarchism, and requires only the implementation of a few short reforms (albeit far reaching reforms) to existing political structures in democratic countries.

One political function required for freedom is ensuring that everyone can work in a worker owned business, either entirely for themselves or as part of a collective, and a major function of public banks would be to issue loans to finance new start up businesses. People would have the right to such work, and public banks would have a duty to provide enough easy credit to fulfil that right, if necessary by creating and lending new money.

In a market system, taxation is required, and it would be fair to levy a land value (ground rent) tax on the users of land that was in demand; and a capital assets (interest) tax on the recipients of loans from public banks, also assumed to be in demand; and perhaps other taxes such as a (possibly progressive) income tax on individuals and businesses, all as decided by citizen assemblies or referenda.

Such a system is remarkably like the current set up today, requiring only a few sensible (but far reaching) reforms:

1) Remove the right of shareholders to elect corporate boards of management or receive dividends: instead transfer those rights to the workers in each corporation, one worker, one vote (and one share of profits).

2) Absolve borrowers of any requirement to repay loan principal or interest to private banks or other creditors: that is, write off all debt. Absolve tenants of any requirement to pay rent, and remove the right of landowners to evict.

3) Create public banks (possibly using some of the structure of the old private banks, which will have just been bankrupted by the above reforms) and give them a mandate to issue unsecured loans to worker owned businesses as required to ensure full employment.

4) Implement democratising/‘anarchist’ reforms to political structures: replace elected ‘representatives’ with instantly recallable mandated delegates, have jury run courts, and so on.

And that’s it – those reforms constitute the revolution. Actually, for completeness, a change to property law would also be required – occupier-owners of land would no longer have the right of alienation, and nor would worker-owners of businesses (any capital gains or land value increase would be retained by the community), and anyone hired as a wage-labourer could (and would) ask a court to grant him full worker-owner rights, and similarly anyone taken on as a tenant could demand full occupier-owner rights.

But not, you will notice, an unimaginable set of reforms, not a utopian system. Everything, economically as well as politically, goes on after the revolution much as it did before – the same corporations produce the same goods, market them through the same networks, in the same political jurisdictions – it is just that capitalist tyranny has vanished. There are no capitalists, financiers, landlords, or bosses; and no profit, interest, rent, or wage labour. People go about their daily business as free people, exploited by no one.

Also, notice all these reforms are potentially popular, right now. The wealthiest 1% of the population will be fanatically opposed to any hint of this, but the other 99% will be receptive. Later, if and when we ever see this platform implemented, some may wish to advance further, to experiment with primitivism or communism or non-market systems. I won’t be among them, but I would wish them the best of luck: after all, under the umbrella of the free society described above, there would be plenty of room for every locality to practice it’s own system, and to spread its ideas further if shown to succeed.

In the meantime, the above platform is hopefully something most anarchists could agree to work towards as, at the very least, an immense improvement on our present circumstances.

Andrew Fraser, Glasgow, July 2005.

Lazlo_Woodbine
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Jul 16 2005 18:12
afraser wrote:
3) Anarcho-Communism (Libertarian Communism/Municipalism, Social Ecology) – is a less severe Primitivism.

Something I've been saying for a long time Mr. T

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Lazy Riser
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Jul 17 2005 23:09

Hi

Thanks for that afraser. I like where you’re going with this, although I’m not too sure about the “less severe primitivism” point. Good to see you’ve got the guts to propose a programme. I couldn’t agree more with the idea that setting out a libertarian socialist programme is a priority task for us.

Was Trotsky right with his “programme first!” injunction? I’m afraid he may have been. I visited his house in Mexico City once, it was smashing.

Lots of love

Chris

Mike Harman
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Jul 17 2005 23:26
Quote:
Within each small city, incomes are equal, with distribution made on the communist principal according to need, not effort – there would be no money. Decisions on production and consumption would be made by popular assemblies of all citizens.

Distribution according to need does not mean "all incomes are equal".

I fail to see how the two following statements can be reconciled:

Quote:

Exchange between cities would also be on the basis of need, organised by confederations of many cities.

The obvious drawback is that exchange between localities, which allows economies of scale and is essential for production of many high tech goods, must either be controlled by a distant confederal bureaucracy, as in Democratic State Socialism; or happen through inter-community market trading, which would not be communist.

If confederations of many cities can exist, then they're clearly larger than "localities", and there's no particular reason why they couldn't be global, or at least inter-continental.

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For that reason, global production would be discouraged, even at the cost of economic efficiency.

Economic efficiency at the moment often means the cheapest labour rather that the most efficient production in terms of resource use and mechanisation. Cut salads are transported from Europe to West Africa back to Europe to be hand-cut by workers in Nigerian ports. That's global production but it's neither efficient nor beneficial in any real sense.

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The resulting drop in wealth in the form of consumer goods would be severe, and that, while somewhat mitigated by what would be a more pleasant way of life, presents an enormous handicap to acceptance of this alternative.

A reduction in the number of consumer goods doesn't necessarily correlate to a reduction in their availability for use or their durability. Longer lasting goods, with more "expensive" ones shared communally could allow for the same quality of life with much less resource use and labour.

afraser
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Jul 18 2005 15:59

Thanks for the feedback, glad to see agreement that setting out a libertarian socialist programme is a priority task for us.

I see I may have been too hard on Social Ecology. They don't spell out exact details of how everything would work, I could be wrongly assuming they intend a more local economy than is actually the case, reading too much into their strong emphasis on benefits of local production and small scale technologies.

The debate between Staudenmaier (Social Ecology) and Albert (Parecon) ( http://www.zmag.org/reply2staudal.htm) has a lot on this. Staudenmaier says:

Quote:
One of the least appealing elements of your theory, in my eyes, is its postulation of an integrated economy on the scale of the existing United States. Parecon accepts this aspect of current economic reality, while social ecology would like to alter it in the direction of regional and local economies,...

That would mean Social Ecology is local. But then Staudenmaier immediately qualifies that with:

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...as far as basic production is concerned, without falling into a myopic insistence on reduced scale or self-reliance for its own sake.

Which you could read as meaning the opposite. The devil is in the details and Social Ecology unfortunately is not ready to give us those yet - Staudenmaier again:

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I don't see the need to structure this [long-distance economic cooperation] into a proposed allocation system which is quite a ways from implementation.

Long story short, I'll modify my article be more open on the Social Ecology platform.

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Distribution according to need does not mean "all incomes are equal".

You're right, I'll correct that in my article, originally intended only to highlight difference with unequal Parecon.

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Economic efficiency at the moment often means the cheapest labour...

Sure, preparing salads and plenty of other non local operations grotesque in current system. A lot of those things stem from gigantic wealth/wage differences with 1st and 3rd world, and I was taking it as understood that eliminating those would have to be one of the first steps of whatever new system replaced capitalism.

Quote:
A reduction in the number of consumer goods doesn't necessarily correlate to a reduction in their availability for use or their durability. Longer lasting goods, with more "expensive" ones shared communally could allow for the same quality of life with much less resource use and labour.

There's certainly a lot of throw away consumerism that could be changed to save waste, but often longer lasting goods will take a lot more resources and labour to make, e.g. housing - you can build cheap and fast with cinder blocks and concrete rendering over a soft timber frame, or build expensive with cut stone and brick, but if you do the extra labour and resource required will eat up a lot of the savings from greater durability. And many goods could be shared - cars/transport obviously - but many can't - most clothing, food, housing - so the amount of waste to be saved by these steps, worthwhile though they are, may not be enough to make any massive change in the way new structures would work. Is a notable market failure though, a neutral arbiter is required to grade quality standards otherwise people will tend to pick the cheapest because they can't believe sellers claims on quality, and strong communal structures are required for sharing buildings, libraries, car pools, planning for low transport overheads, and so on.

Andrew.

Mike Harman
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Jul 18 2005 20:43

I'll have a look at the Staudenmeier/Albert debate. My mate Gary Sisco had a similar (I assume) one with Albert a bit longer ago.

Glad to see you modifiying your views towards social ecology. It definitely emphasises local production but IMO in a pragmatic rather than dogmatic way - there's definitely room for international sharing of resources where necessary. I genuinely think the specifics of large-scale economic planning would have to be worked out when it comes to it.

Quote:

you can build cheap and fast with cinder blocks and concrete rendering over a soft timber frame, or build expensive with cut stone and brick

There's also pre-fab, largely wood-based housing, which is supposed to be fairly durable (and very renewable/easy to replace) while cutting down on labour. Current red-brick housing estates/high rise seem like the worst of all possible scenarios to me.

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and strong communal structures are required for sharing buildings, libraries, car pools, planning for low transport overheads, and so on.

100% agree with this. Which is why I think we should be building community support networks regardless of whether they have direct control over resources or not. It's very much a prerequisite to any kind of libertarian socialist society.

afraser
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Jul 19 2005 10:06
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I genuinely think the specifics of large-scale economic planning would have to be worked out when it comes to it.

OK but I think it would be nice to know a little while before then, it involves big choices. For example, Kibbutzim were fully or substantially communist internally, but when they exchange goods with the outside world, including other Kibbutzim, it is on the basis of market exchange. So communist locally, market globally. That would work, it's an option for Social Ecology. Another option is to have big planning structures, like Parecon maybe, to take care of the large-scale economy. A third option - and this is what I had originally assumed Social Ecology really meant - is to cut back on the large scale economy to such an extent that there is very little left of it to worry about, so it doesn't even matter too much how exactly it is organised.

But those three options are quite different from one another, the decision on which one to pick is not I think something you want to leave until the very last moment it comes to it.

Just today saw a new article by Staudenmaier, http://www.social-ecology.org/article.php?story=20031118120303576, in that he seems to be coming out in favour of option (2) above, a semi-Parecon solution.

Andrew.

Mike Harman
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Jul 19 2005 15:28
afraser wrote:
Quote:
I genuinely think the specifics of large-scale economic planning would have to be worked out when it comes to it.

OK but I think it would be nice to know a little while before then, it involves big choices. For example, Kibbutzim were fully or substantially communist internally, but when they exchange goods with the outside world, including other Kibbutzim, it is on the basis of market exchange. So communist locally, market globally. That would work, it's an option for Social Ecology. Another option is to have big planning structures, like Parecon maybe, to take care of the large-scale economy. A third option - and this is what I had originally assumed Social Ecology really meant - is to cut back on the large scale economy to such an extent that there is very little left of it to worry about, so it doesn't even matter too much how exactly it is organised.

But those three options are quite different from one another, the decision on which one to pick is not I think something you want to leave until the very last moment it comes to it.

Just today saw a new article by Staudenmaier, http://www.social-ecology.org/article.php?story=20031118120303576, in that he seems to be coming out in favour of option (2) above, a semi-Parecon solution.

Andrew.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply I think it isn't worth talking about this stuff. It definitely is. But I think the discussion itself is more important than getting people to adopt the same solution ideologically, and trying to get self-organisation in general more widely accepted in practice now outweighs both, enjoyable and interesting though it is. The big choices, in the end, need to be made by the class, not specialists acting on their behalf.

I'd hope that technological development in a communist society would allow for most things to be produced locally/regionally - if only to cut down on the petroleum/labour costs of transportation. It's possible that very rare minerals, or very highly technological items might have to be traded in some sense over distance, but if these were mainly luxury items, and the means of life were guaranteed in all places, I think that could be dealt with over time. It's still more a matter of distribution than exchange though I think.

Mike Harman
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Jul 19 2005 17:11

doppelpost

Mike Harman
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Jul 19 2005 18:19

I've just taken a look at Staudenmeier's article, I pretty much agree with Bookchin's libertarian municipalism/social ecology. This part of Staudenmeier's article, which I'm assuming you refer to in relation to Parecon:

Quote:

While the primary focus of this scenario is on local communities generating economic policies tailored to their own social end ecological circumstances, social ecologists reject the notions of local self-sufficiency and economic autarchy as values in themselves; we consider these things desirable if and when they contribute to social participation and ecologically nuanced democratic decision making. We foresee a confederation of assemblies in consistent dialogue with one another via confederal bodies made up of recallable and mandated delegates from each constituent assembly. These bodies are established as outgrowths of the directly democratic local communities, not as substitutes for them. Since economic relations, in particular, often involve cooperation with distant communities, confederation offers a mutually compatible framework for sharing resources, skills, and knowledge.

Is no different from Bookchin's outline, nor in fact from Kropotkin/Bakunin's commune of communes. Federalism, and mandated delegate democracy is a very old idea. Libertarian Municipalism has never been about local self-sufficiency as an end in itself.

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Lazy Riser
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Jul 20 2005 11:43

Hi

I am loving this thread.

Cheers

Chris

afraser
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Jul 20 2005 15:38

For the local activities organised internal to each commune, everything can work simply with self organisation. But larger scale, including regional activities, something more is needed. And that something is either planning or markets.

Examples of what I think would fall into each category are:

1) Small scale: building work, some food production, component assembly, repairing and recycling, all service industries.

2) Larger scale: manufacture of building materials, some food production, almost all component manufacturing, pharmaceuticals, petrochemicals, plastics, engines, generators, ball bearings, electronics.

Two problems arise with planning for the 'larger scale' goods:

1) Markets will form spontaneously in the absence of invasive police action by federal authorities. Different local communes will arrange to trade, swap, exchange, do each other favours, send gifts - unless actively prevented from doing so by the centre.

2) Planning a major economy (just look at my list of 'larger scale' goods to see the scale of the problem) is no easy task. Expect economic irrationality and misdirection of effort - too much time spent making ball bearings, not enough synthesising textiles.

The more goods that can be produced locally, within a single commune, the more those planning problems disappear. Otherwise you just have to live with them, minimize them with better planning models like Parceon tries to do - or you have to to markets or some combination of planning and markets.

Mike Harman
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Jul 20 2005 15:45
afraser wrote:

Two problems arise with planning for the 'larger scale' goods:

1) Markets will form spontaneously in the absence of invasive police action by federal authorities. Different local communes will arrange to trade, swap, exchange, do each other favours, send gifts - unless actively prevented from doing so by the centre.

I don't see that 1. constitutes a market necessarily. If those decisions are made democratically then fair enough IMO. If it becomes a reciprocal trading agreement then that for me would be a proto-market and could lead to economic inequality over time. Swaps, favours, gifts are exactly the sort of thing needed to ensure production according to need, and it's still self organisation if groups of people negotiate with each other. Where it stops being self-organisation is when intermedaries are introduced - merchants and currency.

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Lazy Riser
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Jul 20 2005 19:51

Hi

I am still loving this thread.

You're both thinking hard, you deserve encouragement.

I agree with you both, but I'm not sure a little economic inequality is too bad.

You are both right, communities should be free to experiment with whatever libertarian socialist economic organisation they can all agree on.

As long as individual citizens receive a secure income, regardless of errors made in anticipating demand for their output, then they can have as much or as little market as they need in order to maintain product quality.

Love

Chris

afraser
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Jul 22 2005 21:12

Yes thanks for the feedback. A safety net would, you're right, be required.

Even if markets were only through barter trading (swaps), economic inequalities would arise from that. Not huge inequalities though, so those like Lazy Riser who are "not sure a little economic inequality is too bad" won't be too worried about that, especially if income equalisation redistribution measures (fair trade, redistributive tax) are used.

I don't have a problem with intermediaries such as merchants and currency per se, but with interest, rent, wage labour because they are exploitative. But they can be prevented without any requirement for invasive enforcement. Loans will simply not be extended. for example, if there is no legal mechanism to enforce repayment. Note that, while maybe more difficult, it is still possible to have those abuses in a barter system - it would be easy to imagine a contract specifying a certain number of labourers be sent to work for another commune in return for some quantity of goods, for example.

And currencies will tend to appear naturally if there is barter trading: Weights of precious metals will do very well, or unofficial local currencies can be accepted. Money has two uses: one legitimate, assisting in exchange of goods; and one illegitimate, when money gathers more money through interest (also rent, profit).

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Lazy Riser
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Jul 22 2005 23:31

Hi

I'm pretty much in tune with you. I’d be looking to use neighbourhood committees to organise reinvestment of horded resources.

One minor point, I don’t really see the citizen’s income as a “safety net”, or a benefit. This is the income you get for being born; anything you make on top of that, inside a libertarian socialist economy, is fair play.

I’d be looking to abolish “tax” altogether, and pay firms directly for the services that tax currently buys off the state.

Love

Chris

Barry Kade
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Jul 23 2005 01:26

Hi,

all very interesting stuff, I'm sure,

but how do we avoid the old utopian idealist trap of writing receipes for the cookshops of the future?

After all, the future society is not to be drawn up as a series of blueprints by intellectuals and dreamers on bulletin boards!

Rather its contours will take shape in active opposition to capital. The alternative society is formed not from pure ideas, but from the actual struggles by working people within/against capital today.

The 19th century debates on mutualism, collectivism and communism were not settled by idealist scholars but in the practical battles of the class. Communism won, (Kropotkin over Proudhon and Bakunin) because this was related to the level of socialisation of the productive forces generated by capital.

Today, in the 21st Century, look to the communism generated by capital, the social, informational and cultural productive forces that capital needs to work. These are the outlines which will form the features of the future socialist society, not your happy and naive 19th century dreams and visions.

Mike Harman
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Jul 23 2005 09:45

That's funny Barry, I think I dealt with that on the first page of the thread, did you not read the whole thing before commenting?:

Quote:

But I think the discussion itself is more important than getting people to adopt the same solution ideologically, and trying to get self-organisation in general more widely accepted in practice now outweighs both, enjoyable and interesting though it is. The big choices, in the end, need to be made by the class, not specialists acting on their behalf.

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Lazy Riser
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Jul 23 2005 10:50

Hi Barry

all very interesting stuff, I'm sure. Thanks for your encouragement.

Quote:
but how do we avoid the old utopian idealist trap of writing receipes for the cookshops of the future?

In what way is it a trap? What are the negative consequences of falling into it?

As an action, writing utopian recipes gets an 8 out of 10 on the Lazy Riser Scale of Universal Goodness. Here’s some we made earlier…

http://www.libcom.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5732&highlight=recipes

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After all, the future society is not to be drawn up as a series of blueprints by intellectuals and dreamers on bulletin boards!

By whose decree? Is it against the teachings of Jesus?

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Rather its contours will take shape in active opposition to capital. The alternative society is formed not from pure ideas, but from the actual struggles by working people within/against capital today

The 19th century debates on mutualism, collectivism and communism were not settled by idealist scholars but in the practical battles of the class. Communism won, (Kropotkin over Proudhon and Bakunin) because this was related to the level of socialisation of the productive forces generated by capital

The first paragraph is true more or less, the second part doesn’t make sense and doesn’t follow. The 19th century debates that you speak off were not settled, nor were they worth settling.

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Today, in the 21st Century, look to the communism generated by capital, the social, informational and cultural productive forces that capital needs to work. These are the outlines which will form the features of the future socialist society, not your happy and naive 19th century dreams and visions

I am highly suspicious of the “communism generated by capital”, the proposals being made here are extremely contemporary, drawing on recent discoveries in evolutionary psychology and game theory.

I’m interested in enjoying myself, what are you into?

Love

Chris

afraser
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Jul 25 2005 16:30
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One minor point, I don’t really see the citizen’s income as a "safety net", or a benefit. This is the income you get for being born; anything you make on top of that, inside a libertarian socialist economy, is fair play.

I can see, while we are in the current economic system, the advantage of replacing means tested benefits with a universal citizen's income. But I'm not sure why you would want this to continue on into an ideal world, one where there was no capitalism, no unemployment, no poverty. People living off a citizen's income (only) would then either be:

(A) living off of others labour, which would seem to be wrong at least for healthy adults - or

(B) they would living off income from land and natural resources, which it is true should be seen as everyone’s birth right. But to support a citizen's income high enough to actually live on, those would have to be set at very high rates - very high land value tax/ground rent, very high oil, gas prices, high food and fuel costs, high raw materials costs. I'm not sure that would be desirable.

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I’d be looking to abolish "tax" altogether, and pay firms directly for the services that tax currently buys off the state.

I think there would have to be social care. In particular, healthcare for the elderly is bound to be expensive and so seems to me to require funding through some form of taxation, although that doesn't have to involve income taxes.

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Lazy Riser
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Jul 25 2005 17:17

Hi

We disagree, excellent.

Ideally, we'll be getting rid of money altogether and people will be using personal cornucopia machines to provide them with whatever they need. However, whilst we're getting there…

I’d imagine if you were a slacker who refused to pull their weight, other individuals in the community would bring a complaint to the neighbourhood committee / people’s court to find a way of helping you into a productive occupation. Nevertheless, it’s better to live off other’s labour than be forced to work for its own sake. An explosion in human creativity, innovation and productivity, I’m sure, would follow as a pay off.

The income I’m envisaging may be quite high, depending on your perspective. I’m thinking it’d be based on a shopping basket of goods and services. I’m open to discussion but something between 18K and 30K per annum, in today’s money, depending on social economic productivity.

Consumers, operating through neighbourhood committees, would be able to regulate the price and quality of things like health care, so that a citizen’s income could be expected to cover the price.

Your suspicions regarding an inflationary effect are fair enough, but if we’re not productive enough to maintain an egalitarian and prosperous society for all then it’s a bit of a back-to-square-one-job for libertarian socialist economic theory, don’t you think?

I’m a particular fan of the notion of killing off income tax and replacing it with 50% VAT, by the way. That doesn’t mean I necessarily advocate it, but I encourage its dissemination as an idea.

Anyway, peace and love

Chris

afraser
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Jul 26 2005 20:17
Quote:
...something between 18K and 30K...

Current British Government spending is £9k per head of population per year - so you're talking about doubling, trebling the total tax take (at least if children also qualify for a citizen's income, as I assume they should). GDP per head is just £20k. So those citizen's income figures seem too high in the near future. Longer term, if people want to work less hours rather than make more (likely and desirable I think), where would that high citizen's income come from then?

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I’d imagine if you were a slacker who refused to pull their weight, other individuals in the community would bring a complaint...

In a simple, local, system, yes neighbours can quickly help slackers become productive. But in a large scale complex economy, either markets or planning officials are required to allow anyone to identify who (individuals or communes) are either slacking or (maybe more likely) working very hard at worthless tasks. High citizen's incomes would seem to rule out markets for that, although not the other option.

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Jul 27 2005 00:28

Hi afraser

You have been sent down from heaven to show the world that I’m a proper communist after all.

We still agree in a way, I am suggesting that we will be so much more productive in a self-managed economy that we will be better off materially to the tune of my aspirations.

Serious automation will cut the time we spend working, whilst producing more.

I don’t see why local pressure on dozy loafers to pull their weight won’t work in a complex economy. Regardless, I envisage markets rather than commissars will decide what gets made to cater for our diverse tastes in lifestyle and occupation.

Your point rings true under the current money supply regime. I’m proposing we democratise the money supply through self-managed investment banks regulated by neighbourhood councils, rather than fiddle with interest rates to control money to keep us poor, dependent and wasting our time perpetuating the capitalist system, working for its own sake.

Love

Chris

afraser
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Jul 27 2005 12:39

Chris,

Yes we agree except I'm not sure productivity gains would be large enough to deliver all your aspirations, certainly not at first, and so I'd like a theory/model that applied generally, that would be attractive even at the extreme pessimistic assumption that productivity would not be any better than under capitalism.

"Self-managed investment banks regulated by neighbourhood councils" is a good description.

Andrew.

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Lazy Riser
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Jul 27 2005 14:57

Hi Andrew

That's superb mate.

Right, lets stop congratulating each other, nice as it is. I wonder if PaulMarsh has an opinion of the programme you proposed earlier?

Quote:

1) Remove the right of shareholders to elect corporate boards of management or receive dividends: instead transfer those rights to the workers in each corporation, one worker, one vote (and one share of profits).

2) Absolve borrowers of any requirement to repay loan principal or interest to private banks or other creditors: that is, write off all debt. Absolve tenants of any requirement to pay rent, and remove the right of landowners to evict.

3) Create public banks (possibly using some of the structure of the old private banks, which will have just been bankrupted by the above reforms) and give them a mandate to issue unsecured loans to worker owned businesses as required to ensure full employment.

4) Implement democratising/‘anarchist’ reforms to political structures: replace elected ‘representatives’ with instantly recallable mandated delegates, have jury run courts, and so on.

Oh, I'm such a stirrer.

Love

Chris

afraser
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Jul 28 2005 21:28

More opinions would certainly be welcome. I have updated original article (http://afraser.com/beyond_an_ideal.htm) due to comments from this forum so far, main rewrite is to Libertarian Municipalism paragraph, wonder if it is seen as fair now?:

"5. Anarcho-Communism (Libertarian Communism/Municipalism, Social Ecology) – is a communist version of Parecon. Society is to be organised into small communist cities, producing many goods locally. Within each small city, incomes distribution is made on the communist principal according to need, not effort – there would be no money. Decisions on production and consumption would be made by popular assemblies of all citizens. Exchange between cities would also be on the basis of need, but would be organised by confederations of many cities - much as in Parecon at this global level, but with less complex planning at the local level. Market trading, in particular, remains forbidden. although perhaps less fervently than in Parecon.

So, the two objections raised towards Parecon above apply also to this."

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Lazy Riser
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Jul 31 2005 19:36

Hi

I’ve been thinking about this, and I’m not too sure if those who identify with this genre necessarily have the clearly defined vision you suggest, nevertheless I accept your definitions as current state of the art. The lack of competition to your position takes nothing away from the hard work you’re doing developing our understanding of the ideological shape of the libertarian left. So thanks very much.

Love

Chris