I haven't had a chance to read Zizek's stuff yet but i've had my eye on it. Could be good.
Books on a Historical Materialist analysis of Christianity
http://libcom.org/forums/thought/new-icc-book-comments
^ An interesting thread on this very topic. (Don't be put off by the title. 
)
Quote:
I can't find any translations of Baur in English
His name is actually spelt "Bauer". So, try googling "Bruno Bauer", even if there are no translations there must be summaries. And although he was one of a Young Hegelian group with Marx I don't think he or his writings can be called Marxist. In fact, he was one of those Marx mocked in his work "The Holy Family". Having said that, he was one of those who started a trend amongst Protestant theologians, later taken up by atheists and secularists, towards seeing "Jesus" not as a historical person who had really existed but merely as a "good idea" that came into circulation about 2000 years ago. Actually, this is a very plausible analysis, though whether this imaginary personage was good or bad is another matter.
And if you are into Bauer and that lot you must read Feuerbach's "The Essence of Christianity" (translated into English by George Eliot) which does a brilliant job in analysing and debunking christianty but from a philosophical rather than a historical materialist point of view.
Here is the Kautsky link: http://www.marxists.org/archive/kautsky/1908/christ/
I read it about twenty years ago.
Devrim
Actually, Rosa Luxemburg's Socialism and the Churches is not all that good. It's more an anti-clerical pamphlet, such as any Social Democrat could have written at the time (and as many did), than a materialist analysis of religion. Much better are two articles by Anton Pannekoek, one written at about the same time:
http://www.marxists.org/archive/pannekoe/1907/socialism-religion.htm and
http://www.marxists.org/archive/pannekoe/1947/religion.htm
A lot of "anti-religious" writing is in fact anti-clerical when you look at it.
But of course that's a materialist approach in a sense -- look at what religion does (and who does it) rather than the beliefs themselves. This said, I do find materialist approaches to religion fascinating -- but to be worthwhile they do have to face up to the content of religious belief rather than say "LOL, stupid religious bastards." As I may have written on the other thread (can't be arsed to check) I had a materialist reading of the conditions which led to development of the doctrine of the trinity going a few years back. Can't quite remember the details though. 
It's more an anti-clerical pamphlet, such as any Social Democrat could have written at the time (and as many did), than a materialist analysis of religion
I don't agree with Capricorn about Luxemburg's pamphlet - Luxemburg's polemic begins by explaining why socialists are opposed to the churches and the clergy but it is far from the 'stupid religious bastards' approach of bourgeois anti-clericalism (typified by the Class War bonfire...) and does seek to give a materialist account of the communism of the early Christians. It doesn't dismiss the aspirations of the first Christians but shows their limitations by putting them in a historical framework.
I remember reading 'God and the State' and knowing that eventually I would become an atheist...
That was many years ago so I can't recall whether the book is actually good or not - though I do like the quote "If God existed, it would be necessary to destroy him" in relation to things like Transhumanism or Liberation Theology.
McLellan on Bauer's influence on Marx;
http://libcom.org/library/bauer-marx-religion-david-mclellan
It comes to something when one of the beat writers on Marx and his ideas is a practising Roman Catholic. In fact, I think I've heard it said that David McLellan is actually a priest. Does anyone know if this is true? If so, his comments on Marx and religion would still be interesting but this would be something to take into account.
I did hear from someone who had known him that he was a Catholic, and during the time he was writing the Marx stuff he did write about the relationship between Christianity and Marxism - inc. an article on 'Christian-Marxist Dialogue' - never heard he was a priest. But haven't noticed any particular/strong Catholic influence in his writings. But he's more a historian than a theorist.
Bless me father, it has been 3 months since my last confession, these are my sins
Then you make up some bullshit sins about:
not being nice to your brothers
taking the lord's name in vein
swearing
not working hard in school
To disguise the fact that your real sins as a teenage boy are wanking it down to a stub and watching german satellite channels
revol68 wrote:
Demogorgon303 wrote:
Terry Eagleton has a catholic background as well. Maybe it's a requirement to be a Marxist academic.No it's just further proof that protestants are inherently thick as shit, catholics and jews on the otherhand...
Revol speaks the truth.
Certainly not "Historical Materialist" but:
"On the Christian Faith" by Marxistische Gruppe (Marxist Group)
you may find some of the works of Joseph Mccabe to be of interest
loads of refs here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_McCabe
I expect you also find interesting material at the infidels library such as some texts by GA Wells:
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/g_a_wells/
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/theism/christianity/historicity.html
(not historical materialist, more just historical.)
Is it true that a prominent member of the ICC in England is a lecturer in theology?
Oh those rumours....but it could be a reference to the 70s when I had a one-year job in 'higher education', as a part time tutorial assistant in the department of the history of religions at Leicester Uni. I was invited back a few years later to give a few lectures in the same area. It was history of religions, not theology. The department no longer exists and neither did my 'academic career' get any further. Does that answer your question?
Thank you guys so much for your input. I am trying to read up on this subject, already having a degree in Bible and Theology from a Christian school, I was wondering more about what research was done outside of the box of Christianity.
Though I'm more interested in a Marxist/Historical Materialist work, I also did ask for secular works as well. So, once again, thanks all.
Some things of interest:
The Meek and The Militant, Paul Siegel
Maxime Rodinson has an excellent collection of works on Islam and Judaism, but for your purposes, he co-authored a book I have never read that might be of interest: Marxist-Leninist Scientific Atheism and the Study of Religion and Atheism in the USSR (Religion and Reason).
Cyril Smith's essay Karl Marx and Religion http://marxmyths.org/cyril-smith/article2.htm
The Frankfurt School on Religion edited by Eduar Mednieta looks interesting.
Cheers,
Chris
.jpg "Up Against The Wall Motherfucker! - graphic, 1960s")
I've been wondering if anybody knew of any secular, historical materialist workst that discuss the origins and delopment of Christianity. I've read Engels' discussion on The book of Revelations. I can't find any translations of Baur in English, but I'm sure that there's been some great secular and Marxist scholarship done on Christianity in the over a century and a half since Bruno Baur wrote his analysis.
So, does anybody know any good works that discuss the social, geopolitical, and historical developments of Christianity, without the pre-conception that there really is some YHWH looking down benevolently with an infallable infinite plan?