A critical interview with one of the libcom group

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Steven.'s picture
Steven.
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Jul 20 2007 15:53
A critical interview with one of the libcom group

Between Wayne Foster and me, with additions by other libcom people. Saying a few things about what we want from the site, and stuff like that. If anyone has any comments/questions/thoughts/funny insults I'd appreciate it.

http://libcom.org/library/interview-member-libcom-org-2007

Cheers!

yoshomon
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Jul 20 2007 17:55

Why is everyone on this site obsessed with pedophiles?

MJ's picture
MJ
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Jul 20 2007 18:01

Because pedophiles are obsessed with anarchism...

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thugarchist
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Jul 20 2007 18:02

To make excuses for Jack.

Devrim's picture
Devrim
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Jul 20 2007 18:06
yoshomon wrote:
Why is everyone on this site obsessed with pedophiles?

I often wonder that.
Devrim

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Steven.
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Jul 20 2007 18:06
yoshomon wrote:
Why is everyone on this site obsessed with pedophiles?

Paedophiles!? Where? Burn them!!

yab
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Jul 20 2007 18:09
MJ wrote:
Because pedophiles are obsessed with anarchism...

because some anarchists defend pedophilia

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Devrim
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Jul 20 2007 18:14
yab wrote:
MJ wrote:
Because pedophiles are obsessed with anarchism...

because some anarchists defend pedophilia

I don't think that that really explains it. There are some anarchists who defend all sorts of nonsense.

Why pedophilia particulary.

Devrim

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madashell
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Jul 20 2007 18:17
Devrim wrote:
I don't think that that really explains it. There are some anarchists who defend all sorts of nonsense.

Why pedophilia particulary.

Because it's fucking horrific and the idea of anarchism being publically associated with paedophillia fills most sensible anarchists with dread, hence the need to publically repudiate it and distance ourselves from those "anarchists" who do defend paedophillia.

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Steven.
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Jul 20 2007 18:21

Because it's the worst thing in the world. Apart from trade unionism.

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Devrim
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Jul 20 2007 18:23
madashell wrote:
Because it's fucking horrific and the idea of anarchism being publically associated with paedophillia fills most sensible anarchists with dread, hence the need to publically repudiate it and distance ourselves from those "anarchists" who do defend paedophillia.

I don't think that that explains the obbsession of certain posters on these boards. A public repudition-yes, but harping on about it all the time like the gutter press-I am not so sure.

Devrim

yoshomon
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Jul 20 2007 18:24

So going on about pedophilia is a PR move? Honestly, I don't think that's sound PR strategy. If a group is constantly repudiating something, it makes me nervous. And since when is anarchism publicly associated with pedophilia?

The constant moral outrage about pedophilia here is almost religious.

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Jul 20 2007 18:26
yoshomon wrote:
And since when is anarchism publicly associated with pedophilia?

Well for starters one of the best selling "anarchist" writers in the US is a NAMBLA activist. I'd say that's a PR problem right there.

yoshomon
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Jul 20 2007 18:35

Other well-known anarchists are nationalist sympathizers, there are rapists in the anarchist scene, and so on and so on.

Devrim, I'm glad I'm not alone in finding the constant pedophile references strange.

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We are not proponents of "big tent" anarchism, especially when we would have to share a tent with misanthropic anti-socials, paedophiles, end-of-the-world primitivist cultists, etc.

This 'critique' of "big tent anarchism" is completely moral. I guess "misanthropic anti-socials" and "end-of-the-world primitivist cultists" are political labels of sorts, but why not attack it politically? Why not say "we don't want to share a tent with third worldists, left liberals, and nationalists" or something? It seems like y'all often jump over each other to register your moral indignation about things.

I think it's part of a wider attempt to "appeal to the masses" and evangelize.

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Jul 20 2007 18:37

There is something a bit strange about how, until a few months ago when someone pointed it out, any reference to children within any context would almost guarantee a reference by someone to paedophilia within a few minutes. It happens less now , thankfully. Only blokes seem to feel it necessary to do this - true, most posters are male, though.

Maybe it's that rare something everyone can unite around and make themselves feel morally pure about. It's almost like letting a moral panic define your behaviour for you - as if everyone's competing to be the first to prove they're not a nonce.

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Jacques Roux
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Jul 20 2007 18:40
yoshomon wrote:
If a group is constantly repudiating something, it makes me nervous.

Which group are you referring too?

I think its pretty weird as well but I haven't noticed it recently, but then I havent looked at the forums much.

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MJ
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Jul 20 2007 18:42
yoshomon wrote:
I think it's part of a wider attempt to "appeal to the masses"

OH MY GOD HOW DARE THEY!!! THANKS FOR CATCHING THIS.

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Jul 20 2007 18:46
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Why pedophilia particulary.

The abuse of an innocent is particularly moving for anarchists and also, interestingly, Popular-Nationalist types. It demonstrates how ideological configuration is in part psychological predilection.

Mike Harman
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Jul 20 2007 18:47

It's a very old board culture thing that's completely lost all context.

I think it's stuck around and re-appeared so much because it kinda epitomises the stupidity which infests so much anarchism - lots of people support

Quote:
third worldists, left liberals, and nationalists

, much less people support paedophilia - hence as an example of stupidity it's the easiest to wheel out. Also, we used to have a regular stream of posters who liked Hakim Bey and Temporary Autonomous Zones, and his NAMBLA connections were getting documented more about the same time.

It's a shame that all 16 responses to the interview were about it sad

Smash Rich Bastards
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Jul 20 2007 18:48
MJ wrote:
yoshomon wrote:
And since when is anarchism publicly associated with pedophilia?

Well for starters one of the best selling "anarchist" writers in the US is a NAMBLA activist. I'd say that's a PR problem right there.

Two if you count Allen Ginsberg as an anarchist.

Still, I'm not sure that two fringe loonies is enough to prompt the kind of National Enquirer exposure pedophiles seem to get here.

Then again, usually when someone has an especially pronounced negative reaction to something like rape, pedophilia, child abuse, etc. I do the polite thing and don't pry into their personal reasoning too deeply.

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madashell
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Jul 20 2007 18:50
Devrim wrote:
I don't think that that explains the obbsession of certain posters on these boards. A public repudition-yes, but harping on about it all the time like the gutter press-I am not so sure.

I do think that going on about it in a "SHOCK! MORAL OUTRAGE!" kind of way all the time is a bit of a problem, and it does get referred to entirely to much, I'm just saying that it is fairly understandable. Communists are not immune to personal outrage and moral indignation, what with being human beings and all, and paedophillia is a subject that tends to provoke fairly strong emotional responses.

I do sympathise with what you're saying here, though Yoshomon, being a bit of a penis, does just seem to be looking for an excuse to have a pop.

yoshomon
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Jul 20 2007 18:57
Mike Harman wrote:
I think it's stuck around and re-appeared so much because it kinda epitomises the stupidity which infests so much anarchism - lots of people support
Quote:
third worldists, left liberals, and nationalists

, much less people support paedophilia - hence as an example of stupidity it's the easiest to wheel out. (

This seems to into "big tent" ideas. You're saying that pedophilia is an easier target because almost everyone is against it, whereas "lots of people support third worldists, left liberals, and nationalists" so you don't denounce them?

I'm sorry to distract from the rest of the interview, but I think this speaks to deeper issues of morality and populism.

arf
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Jul 20 2007 19:04

i dont think that most people who work or speak against paedophilia are necessarily doing it out of 'moral indignation'.

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Jul 20 2007 21:04
Quote:
Communists are not immune to personal outrage and moral indignation…

Something of understatement.

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…what with being human beings and all, and paedophillia is a subject that tends to provoke fairly strong emotional responses.

Sex sells.

Quote:
i dont think that most people who work or speak against paedophilia are necessarily doing it out of 'moral indignation'.

Some speak against it to mask the fact they fancy a bit.

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Jul 20 2007 22:39

Well, just to take away from all the nonce-sense in this thread, I'D just like to say that I thought this interview was really good. I'm very interested in where libcom'll be in a few years, especially on the top of that interview.

basically, well done ladzz.

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Jul 20 2007 22:49

and ladette. Don't forget zobag!

Cheers Bob!

Mike Harman
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Jul 21 2007 00:06
yoshomon wrote:
Mike Harman wrote:
I think it's stuck around and re-appeared so much because it kinda epitomises the stupidity which infests so much anarchism - lots of people support
Quote:
third worldists, left liberals, and nationalists

, much less people support paedophilia - hence as an example of stupidity it's the easiest to wheel out. (

This seems to into "big tent" ideas. You're saying that pedophilia is an easier target because almost everyone is against it, whereas "lots of people support third worldists, left liberals, and nationalists" so you don't denounce them?

I'm sorry to distract from the rest of the interview, but I think this speaks to deeper issues of morality and populism.

No, no. There's plenty on here against third worldism, left liberalism and nationalism - and I personally hardly ever talk about paedophilia (except, ironically, on threads like this where it gets brought up). However, when it became a regularly talked about subject on the forum, the main recurring arguments were class vs. lifestylism (which sometimes involved people who thought Bey was great). I don't think there's a good reason at all for it being brought up (short of a bit of debunking of Hakim Bey's crap in general - his support for Italian fascism is pretty bad as well), just trying to give a bit of the history as to why it has been.

Mike Harman
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Jul 21 2007 00:29

There was the Chris Morris stuff as well.

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jef costello
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Jul 21 2007 01:13

Interesting read, a couple of mistakes I'll correct when I'm not tired.
The main problem is that I'm not sure who the interview is suposed to reach. Because some of the more jokey questions and answers are probably not the best way to represent the site to newcomers.

I'm not sure that the boards just use paedphilia excessively, I think national liberation comes up frequently, although to be fair there are some posters who will defend it so it isn't quite the same.

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Ed
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Jul 21 2007 02:35
Mike Harman wrote:
There was the Chris Morris stuff as well.

This is paedogeddon!

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MJ
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Jul 21 2007 03:13
revol68 wrote:
meme

hahahahaha "meme" if i ever come across you i will do everything in my power to steal your personal possessions