Debate in the CNT

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melenas
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Dec 27 2014 13:30

1- There is not public information about beltran roca because is a internal communication, and CNT don't have to provide information to people that is not part of the union. he stoped to be general secretary before he toke part in ganemos.

2- i wasn't clear about ganemos, ganemos started from some local coordinations in some cities as proposal of some people of some social organizations. for example in cordoba CNT made a text against this proposal http://cordoba.cnt.es/node/1200
CNT doesn't take part in ganemos and doesn't provide any thing to any party.

3- about this link: http://puertoreal.cnt.es/es/denuncias-politica/4831-2014-08-12-15-23-07....
Extraído de la publicación mensual Cádiz Libertaria Nº50 Agosto 2014
Next time you put a link see from where it came. did you know that the ones that write this are out of CNT because the act against the organization? they are not any more CNT. they are out of CNT because they were laying about the organization.

4- about gisela i don't know her, and the information you put only prove that in 2011 she was in IU and 3 years later she is in CNT. if she is secretaria de organización, means that she is not any more in IU. militant-proletarian had explained better this.

Nice you ask. but there is a problem, you not only ask, you also say things based in text that don't prove any thing.

be calm the CNT militants care more than you about this kind of staff. there is not join between CNT and political parties.

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AES
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Dec 29 2014 12:49

Beltrán Roca's involvement as a member of the group of promoters for Ganemos has been shared here because it is relevant to the discussion of this thread - about his political views, specifically about anarcho-syndicalism. For the avoidance of doubt - I have actually read where Beltrán Roca admits to initially having an oversimplified view of polarized tendencies in the CNT. I met Beltrán Roca in 2006 briefly.

I broadly accept recent tactical engagement with the non-statist local social movement elements of Ganemos - before it was engulfed in parliamentarianism. I reserve my opinion ongoing, awaiting updates, as these issues proceed. I feel that it is necissary for us observing these events from a distance (but seeing information shared on social media for example) to keep in mind the need for revolutionary working class extra-parliamentary organisations (like CNT-AIT) to not conceed ground to leftist social partnership with apparatus of capitalism and the state.

Ante la integración de Alasbarricadas.org en Podemos [auto-translation]

[edited/removed a brief basic translation of part of the mock statement at Dec 28 2014 20:27]

melenas
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Dec 28 2014 15:24

i told you, be careful with the links you share. speak tomorrow and feliz dia de los inocentes smile

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AES
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Dec 28 2014 16:44

So public statements are not to be discussed?

melenas wrote:
about this link: http://puertoreal.cnt.es/es/denuncias-politica/4831-2014-08-12-15-23-07.... Extraído de la publicación mensual Cádiz Libertaria Nº50 Agosto 2014. Next time you put a link see from where it came. did you know that the ones that write this are out of CNT because the act against the organization? they are not any more CNT. they are out of CNT because they were laying about the organization.

If you have a problem with the Puerto Real CNT website having an article from Cádiz Libertaria, then speak with them about removing it.

akai
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Dec 28 2014 19:42

I wouldn't suggest putting pressure on Puerto Real CNT to censor their site. There is already enough problems with that.

Unfortunately people from outside of Spain do not always know that they have their equivalent of April's fools day today. Like any good April fool's trick, it is best if it is plausible and people believe it, which of course sent dozens of people cursing the damned ALB website.

Of course the fake article still has its political moments worth discussion, but probably not with everybody.

no1
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Dec 28 2014 20:12
melenas wrote:
feliz dia de los inocentes :)

lol

melenas
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Dec 29 2014 09:22

INOCENTEEEEE

[Inocentada] Ante la integración de Alasbarricadas.org en Podemos
http://cnt.es/noticias/ante-la-integraci%C3%B3n-de-alasbarricadasorg-en-...

[Inocentada] Alb.org se convierte en Círculo Podemos Anarquista
http://www.alasbarricadas.org/noticias/node/33424

i couldn't tell you more clear, also you could read the links of the CNT text to older "inocentadas". you fall down in a basic thing of the inocentadas, you wanted to believe it. do you think that a SP can finish a public communication writing this?
"Kisses to those struggling.

"If you can't dance is not my revolution" Emma Goldman"

when i saw the "inocentada" i was waiting you to link it smile

when i told you be carefull with the links you put i mean that you are responsible of what you link and what you say about it, the fact that you link the page of puerto real dont exempt you of responsibility. did i say any thing about puerto real? no, im speaking about your links, not their publications. so dont try to protect your mistakes saying that what other do or don't do, we are not 5 years old any more eh. if i have any problem with puerto real, as you say, i speak with them. in the same way im acting with you, you link something and i tell you what i think.

Also, dont edit your texts, write a correction if you want, but do not change your comments already posted, because you break the conversation.

Caiman del Barrio
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Dec 29 2014 10:20

I read on AES' Facebook page that he's joining the SNP, and the SF branch will soon follow?

grin

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AES
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Dec 29 2014 12:49

I avoid sarcasm, stunts, smugness. I don't find jokes mocking alienation amusing.

melenas, don't speak down to others (especially anyone asking sympathetic questions) as if you have ownership of the truth.

melenas
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Dec 29 2014 12:58

im not owner of the truth, im far from that, but if you do or say something im not agree i tell you. if you read what i wrote, you can see that i dont speak about truths or something similar.

You misunderstand my comment where i say "speak tomorrow" and you send me to speak to puerto real, that have nothing in common with what i was writing.

laugh about the "inocentada", you are not the only one that thought that was true, relax. is only a joke, is not bad. move on and if there is something you dont know or you are not sure ask, but ask like you ask to a comrade, not like you are in a court and you are trying to prove that what you think is true.

salud

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AES
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Dec 29 2014 15:02

I asked this earlier

AES wrote:
I'm also interested about CNT providing venues/resources for Ganemos meetings, which I understand has been an issue with some CNT locals?

As you said Ganemos has developed as a social movement formation making decisions at assemblies on a local level, so I presume that this has to do with the early stages of that developement.

From what I have seen when I have been in Spain, friends have mentioned and I've heard - there is still a strong sympathy towards left populism in Spain (with Ganemos, and even Podemos), so I would not have been too surprised if alasbarricadas (known for leftism, rather than class internationalist) did actually attempt to become an educational apparatus for Ganemos as the stunt suggested, the joke is not too far removed from the reality of leftism there, including a part of the anarchist/syndicalist/socialist/communist milieu.

Podemos

melenas
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Dec 29 2014 17:51

as i told you CNT didnt take part in the development of ganemos or whatever other political platform. the fact that in some towns or cities ganemos started as a proposal of some people that was taking part in local coordination don't mean that CNT take part in this proposals or help to develop them. this kind of proposals sometimes appear, some times not, is not something general. every local coordination is different, very different, in some CNT take part, in others no, in some places there are more than one coordination, depending the local organizations of the place. is not good to try to make a general analysis of them.

what you say about alasbarricadas.org make me see that you don't know what is alasbarricadas.org how works and which people take part in it. the joke is totally in the opposite side of where is the anarchy website. i have the feeling that you want to believe that could be true that alasbarricadas or other anarchy organizations could join podemos or ganemos or what ever, because this goes in the line you see the things, this is a wrong way to analyze situations, in my point of view the way mast be the opposite, see what happen and try to see why happen and then write the conclusions, not lock for proves that join with your way of see the things.

for example, in CNT there are more or less around 700 secretaries (local, regional, confederation) and you speak about 2. 2 out 700 is not even a 1% and in general is less than 1% the anarchist that can take part in any moment in parties or whatever leftist organization.

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AES
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Dec 29 2014 17:56

You are very defensive. I'm asking questions about public articles. I'm not making generalisations about CNT.

akai
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Dec 30 2014 07:39

edited

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militant-proletarian
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Dec 29 2014 19:48
AES wrote:

From what I have seen when I have been in Spain, friends have mentioned and I've heard - there is still a strong sympathy towards left populism in Spain (with Ganemos, and even Podemos), so I would not have been too surprised if alasbarricadas (known for leftism, rather than class internationalist) did actually attempt to become an educational apparatus for Ganemos as the stunt suggested, the joke is not too far removed from the reality of leftism there, including a part of the anarchist/syndicalist/socialist/communist milieu.

Podemos

Wow you're really hilarious. So alasbarricadas is known for leftism? Who are you? Maybe the responsible for giving true anarchist member cards. Please, give me one date to go to your office of purity.

Melenas told you, 2 secretaries out of about 700 is negligible, especially in one of the strongest CNT zone. So who cares if beltran is gonna be part of ganemos or whatever?

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AES
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Dec 29 2014 20:07
MP wrote:
So who cares if beltran is gonna be part of ganemos or whatever?

AES wrote:
Beltrán Roca's involvement as a member of the group of promoters for Ganemos has been shared here because it is relevant to the discussion of this thread - about his political views, specifically about anarcho-syndicalism

melenas
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Dec 29 2014 21:09

you forget this link Akai
Asociación pro derechos humanos de andalucia.

http://www.apdha.org/webanterior/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&...

look like is not only CNT the ones that use that place. that building was in 1936 a property of UGT and CNT. is very big place, and today it is use by PAH, asamblea de parados, asamblea de inmigrantes and a large etc. of associations. some of them now take part directly in Ganemos.

i see that you like a lot to give information, and the transparency, Laure Akai, can you put it in practice and publish the message you send through Facebook to some CNT members inviting them to boycott the XXV congress of Valencia because you didn't like the budget? or maybe is again that you hide your incoherence and public or share only the links that join with your cruzada?

melenas
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Dec 29 2014 21:11
AES wrote:
You are very defensive. I'm asking questions about public articles. I'm not making generalisations about CNT.

ok.

akai
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Dec 30 2014 07:41

The only thing I can say here is that Melanas, like your friend MP, it is too bad the shit you are doing. As for the bullshit you are writing about boycotting congresses etc.,I called a boycott and then went? Doesn't sound serious that boycott. It's true my Section did not like the budget - just as it is true that the organizers of the Congress owe several thousand euros to the IWA still that they never paid back. Thanks for reminding me - I will get the Treasurer on it again,

BTW - why don't you sign your stuff so we all know who you are?

About boycotting, I will just boycott you trolls.

melenas
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Dec 30 2014 08:26

Ann, i can call you Ann, no? stop the literature and the bullshits, i don't speak about your section, don't mention it to try to protect your self, and if you are not going to act with transparency about your self, at least don't publish half information about others.

i have no problem to say who i am, put the message you send and i will make it public, Do ut des.

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militant-proletarian
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Dec 31 2014 16:41
akai wrote:
The only thing I can say here is that Melanas, like your friend MP, it is too bad the shit you are doing. As for the bullshit you are writing about boycotting congresses etc.,I called a boycott and then went? Doesn't sound serious that boycott. It's true my Section did not like the budget - just as it is true that the organizers of the Congress owe several thousand euros to the IWA still that they never paid back. Thanks for reminding me - I will get the Treasurer on it again,

BTW - why don't you sign your stuff so we all know who you are?

About boycotting, I will just boycott you trolls.

Do you realize you're the General Sec. of the IWA? Are you aware of this is a public forum and you gotta be responsible for your comments? So why the hell are you talking about budgets or shit about the organizers, who are members of an IWA section? Why aren't you so determined to get your Treasurer on the money stolen by a Secretariat in the Balkans few years ago?

I ask you too: why don't you sign your stuff so you can be held accountable for your foolish comments?

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AES
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Dec 31 2014 16:56

Stop the mobbing

melenas
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Jan 2 2015 08:56
AES wrote:
Stop the mobbing

mobbing: when some people give answer to the secretary spearing bullshits and internal information about others and hide the bullshits she/he does.

MT
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Jan 2 2015 11:47

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullying
now you can read again what akai wrote here. and then read what MP wrote here. the same goes for the libcom admins who allow such behavior on this forum...

melenas
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Jan 2 2015 12:46
MT wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullying
now you can read again what akai wrote here. and then read what MP wrote here. the same goes for the libcom admins who allow such behavior on this forum...

for example this:

akai wrote:
just as it is true that the organizers of the Congress owe several thousand euros to the IWA still that they never paid back. Thanks for reminding me - I will get the Treasurer on it again,

every time she write a bullshit and someone came to stop Ann, appear some groupies to clam against mobbing and asking to the moderation to cut this situation.

interesting that this happen no when she spear partial information or accusations to sections, no, this happen when the people answer to this attacks.

the best part is that Ann/akai is the secretary of IWA.

Caiman del Barrio
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Jan 2 2015 13:15

I take back what I said earlier. This is fucking ridiculous behaviour from 'Militant Proletarian' (lol, what a name) and Melenas, who I believe broke Libcom rules by (attempting to) expose someone.

Caiman del Barrio
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Jan 2 2015 13:16
melenas wrote:
Ann, i can call you Ann, no? stop the literature and the bullshits, i don't speak about your section, don't mention it to try to protect your self, and if you are not going to act with transparency about your self, at least don't publish half information about others.

i have no problem to say who i am, put the message you send and i will make it public, Do ut des.

Reported you for being a fucking grass cunt.

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