Does identity politics take away the importance of class struggle?

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This book "The Black Power Movement Rethinking the Civil Rights-Black Power Era" is reviewed in the latest issue of the NEFAC rag. Perhaps one of them could tell us more about it...or even post the review here, presumbly it is worth comment given that they reviewed it.

Wayne Price has an article on this stuff on Anarkismo right now, and I know there's a lot of hostility to his stuff these days, but I would say this article is actually pretty good.

http://www.anarkismo.net/newswire.php?story_id=6488

For me dealing with racism, sexism, homohpobia is an essential art of the class struggle and can't be separated from it. I think the problem is when people start thinking that call is just another oppression, it works differently, and furthermore being in favour of a working class revolution is what makes us radicals instead of liberals.

Yes.

Devrim

No, I think identity politics do.
Devrim

Identity Politics is the intellectual and academic equivalent of rearranging one's furniture whilst one's house burns down.
That being said, it did offer some insight into the multiplicity of oppression, but fundamentally, not much. Arguing that "all oppressions are equal" is intellectually vapid, and of little real value, and leaves much analytic space unoccupied, and intrinsically fails to address capitalism as a historical entity. Ergo, I'm not a fan.

Oh suck it up revol, if you read the initial post what Grace posits as 'identity politcs' is pretty obviously what I'm talking about:

It's pretty obvious that what she is talking about is dealing with racism within the context of the class struggle, at least in part. My intention was not to muddy the waters by introducing semantic hair splitting, but deal directly with her point using the terms she used herself.

Can you please get over your castration anxiety and deal with the issue? Thanks.

Well I think we are actually on the same page then, of course this could have been done without calling me a fuckwit. I mean honestly I was just asking a question to clear things up when I asked Devrim what I did. Is this some kind of paranoia about North Americans again?

Well I wanted to find out what he thought before I was going to criticise him more if that is what you mean but his second answer was adequate.

I'm still waiting for the apology for calling me a fuckwit by the way. I've given you the benefit of civilised conversation I'm wondering why you think you are so much above me that you can talk to me like that?

Also why does this stuff make you so defensive?

Y'know sometimes asking questions can open up some space for real discussion. You know that thing that doesn't involve ritually deouncing people because of how you perceive the conversation is going to go? I already admitted I may have misunderstood what Grace meant by identity politics but it looked a lot like all she meant was dealing with non class based issues within the working class.

Also revol I really didn't know what Devrim was going to say, that is why I asked. He is still playing coy though. What does EKS or Organise! Ireland do to address sexism in the working class? What is your aproach, do you support access to abortion struggles in Ireland, publish articles on the issue in your journals etc?

Again this isn't a smart assed question I'm asking because I want some practical discussion.

Especially since these resources may be of some use to Grace's partner who is looking for information on this stuff.

yes we support abortion struggles infact we got our photo taken my a photographer for the french Cosmo on the one in Dublin a few years ago , we organise poorly attended womens day events and when we had more women in the preceding organisations we had a womens commission, all this should be taken for granted for anarchists and communists, if it isn't it means you don't have a real class analysis. A class analysis should subsume racism and sexism because those oppressions are articulated in class, afterall class is a social relation of power, oppression and alienation, it isn't a narrow economistic category that starts and ends at the shop floor.

you can play stupid all you want but your question to Devrim was pointed and snidey, or did you really think he thinks racism and sexism aren't relevant to the working class and if you did think that about him i'd be pretty insulting, no?

have you and dev become, er, lovers, or something?

But if he doesn't shut it down, you know what will happen!

Ugh, even the most hardcore identity politics-focused people I know think Hothead Paisan is a bunch of shit.

I am glad this is being discussed.

Personally I have had a very confused time with the issue. I would love to be more involved with the queer movement but have come head to head with a lot of these issues. I agree totally that class is not just another opression, but the overarching opression that all others fall under. But I do believe that it is perfectly legitamate for women or people of color of queer people to organize and advocate for themselves in the present. I guess it is our job as Anarchists to argue class politics within these movements, but it can be quite difficult as there are a great deal of identity politic people involved as well. I just lose patience when we end up marching through upper class gay ghettos wearing pink and declaring it somehow a revolutionary activity. Or appealing to politicians to represent us. I find this sort of thinking permeates even supposedly radical homosexual groups. There is also the question with all of the "opressions" of whether to combat them in general or through a class struggle lense. Should a manager that is assaulted because he is black be defended? Should a cop? It is very easy to say that you can just oppose the act and not support the person, but it still brings up issues of whether your opressed community is in solidarity with the rest of the working class or working for it's identity interests. And then of course class divisions within these movements are so often ingored in general that the issue might now even be considered! It's all a little beyond me right now so I am open to other interpretations.