Hakim Bey, world-reknown author and political organizer of pedophiles. - got dirt?

"Why I wrote a fake Hakim Bey book and how I cheated the conformists of Italian Counterculture"

No, Rise gets repeatedly banned from the Infoshop News forum for being a one dimensional sectarian idiot. A couple of years ago he was coming onto that forum and making dogmatic statements about what the true form of anarchism is. You really can't have any discussions with people who troll with their dogmatic take on things.

At the time, my impression was that Rise was a teenager who was a bit rigid about his political ideas. I hope he's become a bit more open-minded as he's gotten older.

Chuck
Infoshop

I'm a post-leftist and a class struggle anarchist.

That should give a few sectarians indigestion.

Chuck

I see that you haven't changed a bit. Still pissy about North American anarchists existing that don't toe your party line? Tough.

There is alot of interesting new theory happening in English language anarchist circles. Just look around and start reading.

Anarchy: AJODA is a magazine, not a religion. If you have something intelligent to criticize about something in the magazine, you might want to be more specific. Anarchy is a general interest anarchist magazine which has published a wide range of material over the years. Just because the magazine publishes something, doesn't mean that it reflects the opinions of the current editors. This is how general interest magazines work.

Chuck
Infoshop.org

I'm sorry if I've pissed you off. I've felt very bad about pissing you and your circle off.

That period several years ago when I pissed you off was not a good one for me. I was unemployed, almost homeless and incredibly stressed out at the time. I had lots of time on my hands and I got into quite a few pointless flame wars. I wasn't able to step back and I didn't have many close friends who were good about getting me to loosen up about debates.

Chuck0
Infoshop.org

no indigestion and i'm not being 'sectarian', but as i understand it (from bob black, crimethinc and saul newman), post-left anarchism is about rejecting class struggle as an antiquated 'leftist' narrative that relies on an impossible millennial revolution, and instead tends to focus on individual resistance and rebellion. maybe i'm wrong, how do you dovetail the two?

Sectarian: One who puts the interests of their group above the interests of the working class.

Not to be confused with

Sectarian: One who disagrees with me, or is a member of a group other than mine.

A common mistake, but easily rectified.

no indigestion and i'm not being 'sectarian', but as i understand it (from bob black, crimethinc and saul newman), post-left anarchism is about rejecting class struggle as an antiquated 'leftist' narrative that relies on an impossible millennial revolution, and instead tends to focus on individual resistance and rebellion. maybe i'm wrong, how do you dovetail the two?

There are post-leftists like Bob Black who probably would never be involved in organizing a federation, but Black is more of a writer and critic than an organizer.

I've talked with Jason McQuinn about the subject of anarchist federations and he has said that he is in favor of them. He told me that he was happy when NEFAC was founded, because the U.S. needed a foundation or two.

I may be wrong, but I've never gotten the idea that post-leftism is about rejecting class war anarchism in total. Post-leftism does criticize many elements within class war anrchism and similar tendencies, because those people are more interested in bending their "anarchism" towards authoritarian leftism than they are in being true to the basic ideas of anarchism. You can see evidence of this false anarchist consciousness in the anarchists who drop the anarchist label and easily become leftists.

Post-leftism is a critique of the left and its dysfunctional influence on *contemporary* anarchism.The post-leftist position is that anarchism is a very solid body of ideas and that anarchists would be better off following those ideas instead of following the left sectarians around because they are "better organized" or "have their shit together."

I think that class struggle anarchists should focus on organizing and agitating the working class, instead of soending so much time promoting their label as the "correct" form of anarchism. If the ideas of class struggle anarchism are valid, and I think they mostly are, then people will gravitate towards class war anarchism when they see your projects and practical activity. People will join up when they see what you can do, not because you have the correct line.

Chuck

Ah right so you've had problems with him too? He's not dogmatic though, he's just a fucking trot.

Maybe he just doesn't see that yet.

Chuck

Personally I don't believe a mans work, fiction or non, should be judged on the personal life of the artist or thinker, even if the personal history obviously colors the ideas, the work will or should, stand alone.

Wilson several times critiques the leftist way of thinking (in similar vein as Kaczynski) that one must have a //rational// reasoning behind a suggestion, where all that matters is the suggestion itself (This comes to light in his criticism of marijuana legalizations movements that presents their desire to smoke cannabis freely as medicinal or religious, not wanting to admit the real reason being that the effect of the drug are simply pleasureable)

It is not difficult to understand the underlying reason for Wilsons desire for such a society, however, he is not proposing a pedophile or pederast society. It is simply a free society, not a society which forces pederasty on anyone.
If someone, let says, asks you to join them for a walk in the forrest, they may want to go to simply admire the nature, where as you may want to gather mushrooms. The idea that is proposed is the point, and it benefits boths of you, even if you have different ideas of what is done during the execution....

Kaczynski is in federal butt-rape prison for sticking it to the Man, all Hakim Bey ever did was smoke hash and rape little boys

Chuck0 also bans people from Infoshop for politely disagreeing with Chuck0, not being an anarchist, politely disagreeing with Chuck0, posting on Tuesday or Friday, questioning Chuck0's draconian banning policies, using certain letters of the alphabet, or pointing out Chuck0's porn addiction.

This is why Infoshop is now losing its readership to an assortment of casually updated insurrectionist WordPage blogs and the Chantard cesspoll known as AnarchistNews.org

Fixed.

Such as yourself

I think you should spend more time making Infoshop.org look less web 2.0 and less time censoring the comments section with the zeal of an AM radio call-in show.

Except on the comments section of Infoshop.org, where they will be deleted, along with anyone who criticizes Chuck0 for promoting the porn industry, suppresing feminist critics of porn, embezzling thousands of dollars via unnecessary fundraisers, and calling for the US Midwest to be turned into a wasteland of wind turbines... when they see your projects and practical activity.

Tor SR Thidesen:

This is an expression of and support for alienation in Marx's sense: the product is separate from the producer and comes to dominate him (or her); in Tor SR Thidesen's ideological vision, this is seen as a good thing. So - never mind if the creator of something is a paedophile - see the creation as something separate.Never mind that James Brown was an authoritarian piece of shit who was used by the US president to pacify the blacks after Luther King's assassination - his music stand alone. Never mind that Dali was a pro-Franco piece of shit, his work stands alone. Never mind that Eisenstein was a pro-Bolshevik propagandist, his films stand alone. Never mind that Albert Speer was a nazi, his Nuremburg rally spectacles (fascinating innovative stuff for its time) stand alone.

It is not necessarily his life that is the problem.
Paedophilia is based upon a deeply and to my mind fundamentallly unequal power relation and as such it cannot be permitted in an anarchist society any more than people being forced to do anything against their will.

His work is judged on this context as much as it is on his private life.

Yes everything must become one undifferentiated mass - finally we are free from alienation!

Also, lest we forget, his work is shit. As I wrote on another thread:

Can we make a distinction between his work and his personal life?

That distinction has been made. See post above for an example.

One, I don't think we should or that we even can. Paedophiles abuse the authority they hold as adults and force their will on vulnerable children, thus we can argue that Bey's support for "pederasty" compromises his credibility as an "anarchist" in the first place.

Two, yeah, take a look post 140 again. Myself and others have made criticisms of politics and personal life distinctly and you haven't been able to defend either of them.

Bey: glorifying weakness (TAZs), glorifying fascist adventurism (Fiume), glorifying mystifcation (Sufism), glorifying fucking children (paedo poems)

How is the drivel at post 140 a criticisms of politics and personal life?

Yep, and lets face it, his paedo-sympathy is completely tied into his individualist conception of what anarchism is and thus it cannot be separated from his politics; it's part and parcel of it.

So Choccy by that logic if someone agrees with Bey's "individualist conception of what anarchism is" (which is "part and parcel" and "completely tied" to paedo-sympathy) it automatically makes them agree with Bey's paedo-sympathy? That doesn't make any sense to me at all. It's like saying Bakunin's anarchism is intrinsically linked to his anti-semitism.

I agree that support for pederasty compromises his credibility as an anarchist but that doesn't mean everything he ever wrote can be brushed away by this single argument, especially if the argument devolves into a hysterical chant of "burn the witch".

I think he's often perceptive and intelligent in his thinking. I disagree with him a lot but I like reading writers that I disagree with. I would say some of his texts are worth reading. For example the text "Radio Sermonettes" about art, mediation and imagination. I can't think of many other writers who understood the situationist critique of art and wrote about it intelligently so recently, compared to the crap you usually find on the subject.

Also I will add that if he really has put his dick inside a prepubescent child then ethically I would have no objection at all if he was tortured to death, there is no excuse for that at all. That doesn't change what I have written above though.

No it's not, because when it came down to it, Bakunin didn't advocate attacks on Jews as intrinsically revolutionary, whereas Bey sees "sufi" mysticism, which includes pedophilia (at least according to him), as intrinsic to his "anarchism."

Exactly, antisemitism wasn't part and parcel of Bakunin's political philosophy, whereas Bey's openness to child-adult sexual relations is apparently part of his conception of anarchism.

I haven't read most of his corpus but judging from the ones I have read that seems unlikely. Do you have a quote to back that up?

I don't remember Bey offering a specific program for "his anarchism". More like a series of reflections and criticisms where neither sufi mysticism or pedophilia are "intrinsic".

He did say this: "Therefore in all countries the people detest the Jews. They detest them so much that every popular revolution is accompanied by a massacre of Jews: a natural consequence, but one which is not such as to make the Jews partisans of popular social revolution."

Exactly, Bey never(!) says that his vision MUST include child rape. He simply believes in looking into yourself and seeing what lies there, is it pedophilia, so be it.
Once again, please listen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsrpcp-6YRw