Hakim Bey, world-reknown author and political organizer of pedophiles. - got dirt?

Strawman, no one said anything about his conception necessiating child rape, simply that his conception of anarchism allows for it, and thus has nothing to do with the anarchism that most users of this board situate themselves in.

Choccy wrote:

Strawman, no one said anything about his conception necessiating child rape, simply that his conception of anarchism allows for it, and thus has nothing to do with the anarchism that most users of this board situate themselves in.

So your view of ontological anarchism requires the oppression of certain sexual desires?

what the fuck is ontological anarchism, is it not simply existentialism restated by Bey and co?

revol68 wrote:

what the fuck is ontological anarchism, is it not simply existentialism restated by Bey and co?

it's like, chaos, man. emergent order. complexity, like, on the ontological plane, yeah? like, no rulers. existence is a liberated space without law and order. bullshit mystification 'philosophy' about as deep and radical as Deepak Chopra.

The TAZ is like an uprising which does not engage directly with the State, a guerilla operation which liberates an area (of land, of time, of imagination) and then dissolves itself to re-form elsewhere/elsewhen, before the State can crush it. Because the State is concerned primarily with Simulation rather than substance, the TAZ can "occupy" these areas clandestinely and carry on its festal purposes for quite a while in relative peace. Perhaps certain small TAZs have lasted whole lifetimes because they went unnoticed, like hillbilly enclaves--because they never intersected with the Spectacle, never appeared outside that real life which is invisible to the agents of Simulation.

O for a libertarian isle of runaways! (...) In the land of dreams
No governance exists (...) My liege shatters all Law for a triple kiss.

and also,

Hakim Bey wrote:

The TAZ is like an uprising which does not engage directly with the State, a guerilla operation which liberates an area (of land, of time, of imagination) and then dissolves itself to re-form elsewhere/elsewhen, before the State can crush it. Because the State is concerned primarily with Simulation rather than substance, the TAZ can "occupy" these areas clandestinely and carry on its festal purposes for quite a while in relative peace. Perhaps certain small TAZs have lasted whole lifetimes because they went unnoticed, like hillbilly enclaves--because they never intersected with the Spectacle, never appeared outside that real life which is invisible to the agents of Simulation.

this seems as much like intellectual cover for NAMBLA and paedo rings as as RTS parties.

Joseph Kay wrote:

this seems as much like intellectual cover for NAMBLA and paedo rings as as RTS parties.

So basically "Yo shut the fuck up with your direct attacks on state and capital, we don't need the heat, some of us are trying to bum children here!"

If people are so fucking fond of TAZ, they might as well just read up on Virno's exodus. Same shit, but without the nonce wrapping.

Khawaga wrote:

If people are so fucking fond of TAZ, they might as well just read up on Virno's exodus. Same shit, but without the nonce wrapping.

There is NO nonce-wrapping in Beys writing. He just happens to be a nonce, thats is. Let's get this clear, and move on

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw7lUMC-m3Q

Tor SR Thidesen wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw7lUMC-m3Q

notch?

Tor SR Thidesen wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw7lUMC-m3Q

notch?

Are you attempting to justify Hakim Bey with a GG Allin song?
Best political argument ever.

jef costello wrote:

Tor SR Thidesen wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw7lUMC-m3Q

notch?

One of his tamer numbers, I'd say.
And nobody treats GG as a serious political comentator for fucks sake, like some people here unfortunately do with Bey.
Or do you Tor?
Are you attempting to justify Hakim Bey with a GG Allin song?
Best political argument ever.

notch8 wrote:

Are you attempting to justify Hakim Bey with a GG Allin song?
Best political argument ever.

i'd say it's a tie with citing the unabomber in defence of paedos.

'not convinced by child abuse? but it's endorsed by the unabomber and gg allin!'

So your view of ontological anarchism requires the oppression of certain sexual desires?

Cities of the Red Night is the first novel in Beat author William S. Burroughs' final trilogy, followed by The Place of Dead Roads and The Western Lands, and was first published in 1981. It was his first full-length novel since The Wild Boys a decade earlier. The plot revolves around a group of radical pirates who seek the freedom to live under the articles set out by Captain James Mission. In near present day, a parallel story follows a detective searching for a lost boy, abducted for use in a sexual ritual. The cities of the title mimic and parody real places, and Burroughs makes references to the United States, Mexico, and Morocco.

Actually, the description of a TAZ and the pedophilic poems seems like a complete ripoff of William S Burroughs' book, "Cities of the Red Night," which involves pirates who establish commune's by force in the 'New World', where they engage in all manner of sexual acts with their pre-pubescent and teenage indentured servernts/paiges.

Quote:

Cities of the Red Night is the first novel in Beat author William S. Burroughs' final trilogy, followed by The Place of Dead Roads and The Western Lands, and was first published in 1981. It was his first full-length novel since The Wild Boys a decade earlier. The plot revolves around a group of radical pirates who seek the freedom to live under the articles set out by Captain James Mission. In near present day, a parallel story follows a detective searching for a lost boy, abducted for use in a sexual ritual. The cities of the title mimic and parody real places, and Burroughs makes references to the United States, Mexico, and Morocco.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cities_of_the_Red_Night

Such TAZ's have always existed for the rich and powerful, spaces and relations where the law dare not tread or is suspended, where economic and political power and influence allow for such such delightful transgressions as rape and murder.

i'd say it's a tie with citing the unabomber in defence of paedos.

Exactly, Bey never(!) says that his vision MUST include child rape. He simply believes in looking into yourself and seeing what lies there, is it pedophilia, so be it.

anarchism requires the oppression of certain sexual desires?

revol68 wrote:

Joseph Kay wrote:

this seems as much like intellectual cover for NAMBLA and paedo rings as as RTS parties.

So basically "Yo shut the fuck up with your direct attacks on state and capital, we don't need the heat, some of us are trying to bum children here!"

see my above edit; his nonce poem explicitly draws on the same themes as TAZ... or the other way around, i dunno.

Can we make a distinction between his work and his personal life?

According to Chaos Theory, it does not follow that we are obliged to like or approve of murder or abortion. Chaos would enjoy seeing every bastard love-child carried to term & birthed; sperm & egg alone are merely lovely secretions, but combined as DNA they become potential consciousness, negentropy, joy... If 'meat is murder!' as the Vegans like to claim, what pray tell is abortion?"

Public book burnings--why should rednecks & Customs officials monopolize this weapon? [...] the New York Times bestseller list [...; et cetera]. feminist tracts against pornography [emp. added; ...] a festive atmosphere, wine-bottles & joints passed around on a clear autumn afternoon.

Makhno's Ukraine and anarchist Spain [...] could have persisted if not for outside aggression. Therefore, from among the experiments of the inter-War period I'll concentrate instead on the madcap Republic of Fiume, which is much less well known, and was not meant to endure.Gabriele D'Annunzio, Decadent poet, artist, musician, aesthete, womanizer, pioneer daredevil aeronautist, black magician, genius and cad, emerged from World War I as a hero with a small army at his beck and command: the "Arditi." At a loss for adventure, he decided to capture the city of Fiume from Yugoslavia and give it to Italy. After a necromantic ceremony with his mistress in a cemetery in Venice he set out to conquer Fiume, and succeeded without any trouble to speak of. But Italy turned down his generous offer; the Prime Minister called him a fool.

In a huff, D'Annunzio decided to declare independence and see how long he could get away with it. He and one of his anarchist friends wrote the Constitution, which declared music to be the central principle of the State. The Navy (made up of deserters and Milanese anarchist maritime unionists) named themselves the Uscochi, after the long- vanished pirates who once lived on local offshore islands and preyed on Venetian and Ottoman shipping. The modern Uscochi succeeded in some wild coups: several rich Italian merchant vessels suddenly gave the Republic a future: money in the coffers! Artists, bohemians, adventurers, anarchists (D'Annunzio corresponded with Malatesta), fugitives and Stateless refugees, homosexuals, military dandies (the uniform was black with pirate skull-&-crossbones--later stolen by the SS), and crank reformers of every stripe (including Buddhists, Theosophists and Vedantists) began to show up at Fiume in droves. The party never stopped. Every morning D'Annunzio read poetry and manifestos from his balcony; every evening a concert, then fireworks. This made up the entire activity of the government. Eighteen months later, when the wine and money had run out and the Italian fleet finally showed up and lobbed a few shells at the Municipal Palace, no one had the energy to resist.

D'Annunzio, like many Italian anarchists, later veered toward fascism--in fact, Mussolini (the ex-Syndicalist) himself seduced the poet along that route. By the time D'Annunzio realized his error it was too late: he was too old and sick. But Il Duce had him killed anyway--pushed off a balcony--and turned him into a "martyr." As for Fiume, though it lacked the seriousness of the free Ukraine or Barcelona, it can probably teach us more about certain aspects of our quest. It was in some ways the last of the pirate utopias (or the only modern example)--in other ways, perhaps, it was very nearly the first modern TAZ.

I believe that if we compare Fiume with the Paris uprising of 1968 (also the Italian urban insurrections of the early seventies), as well as with the American countercultural communes and their anarcho-New Left influences, we should notice certain similarities, such as:--the importance of aesthetic theory (cf. the Situationists)--also, what might be called "pirate economics," living high off the surplus of social overproduction--even the popularity of colorful military uniforms--and the concept of music as revolutionary social change--and finally their shared air of impermanence, of being ready to move on, shape-shift, re- locate to other universities, mountaintops, ghettos, factories, safe houses, abandoned farms--or even other planes of reality. No one was trying to impose yet another Revolutionary Dictatorship, either at Fiume, Paris, or Millbrook. Either the world would change, or it wouldn't. Meanwhile keep on the move and live intensely.

IN SLEEP WE DREAM of only two forms of government--anarchy & monarchy. Primordial root consciousness understands no politics & never plays fair. A democratic dream? a socialist dream? Impossible.

glorifying mystifcation (Sufism)

Actually, the description of a TAZ and the pedophilic poems seems like a complete ripoff of William S Burroughs' book, "Cities of the Red Night,"

Tor SR Thidesen wrote:

Can we make a distinction between his work and his personal life?

Sure, here's what Hakim Bey's work says

Association for Ontological Anarchy, Communique #9 wrote:

According to Chaos Theory, it does not follow that we are obliged to like or approve of murder or abortion. Chaos would enjoy seeing every bastard love-child carried to term & birthed; sperm & egg alone are merely lovely secretions, but combined as DNA they become potential consciousness, negentropy, joy... If 'meat is murder!' as the Vegans like to claim, what pray tell is abortion?"

Chaos: The Broadsheets of Ontological Anarchism wrote:

Public book burnings--why should rednecks & Customs officials monopolize this weapon? [...] the New York Times bestseller list [...; et cetera]. feminist tracts against pornography [emp. added; ...] a festive atmosphere, wine-bottles & joints passed around on a clear autumn afternoon.

TAZ wrote:

Makhno's Ukraine and anarchist Spain [...] could have persisted if not for outside aggression. Therefore, from among the experiments of the inter-War period I'll concentrate instead on the madcap Republic of Fiume, which is much less well known, and was not meant to endure.Gabriele D'Annunzio, Decadent poet, artist, musician, aesthete, womanizer, pioneer daredevil aeronautist, black magician, genius and cad, emerged from World War I as a hero with a small army at his beck and command: the "Arditi." At a loss for adventure, he decided to capture the city of Fiume from Yugoslavia and give it to Italy. After a necromantic ceremony with his mistress in a cemetery in Venice he set out to conquer Fiume, and succeeded without any trouble to speak of. But Italy turned down his generous offer; the Prime Minister called him (...).

TAZ wrote:

IN SLEEP WE DREAM of only two forms of government--anarchy & monarchy. Primordial root consciousness understands no politics & never plays fair. A democratic dream? a socialist dream? Impossible.

So we have anti-feminist politics combined with reactionary monarchism and romanticism of an Italian nationalist third positionist. (And elitist insults against "rednecks") And unlike Tolkien, Hakim Bey doesn't even have any real poetic talent. I say his advice regarding public book burnings be applied to his own writings.

888 wrote:

glorifying mystifcation (Sufism)

Don't be a dolt, Sufism is part of humanity's beautiful scientific tradition. All Hakim Bey peddles in is Orientalist new age fraudulence which has never been taken seriously by any real scholar of Persian or Arabic literature. As such he is no different than plastic medicine men, sham acupuncturists, Hollywood kabbalists, newspaper astrologers and Ayahuasca tourists. Of course such figures have always served as convenient strawmen for vulgar materialist bigots.

devoration1 wrote:

Actually, the description of a TAZ and the pedophilic poems seems like a complete ripoff of William S Burroughs' book, "Cities of the Red Night,"

But was Burroughs sincerely proposing his vision as a desired political future for humanity?