Hoodies
Jan 23 2006 19:54
What do you think of 'hoodies' and the people that wear them?
I usually don't have a problem with what people wear, its upto them, my mates wear hoodies and I do sometimes but I feel some wearer's of them can be imtimidating sometimes, but its not just what I think but other people also feel threatened by them and not just the Daily Mail...
There is loads of criminological stuff I could discuss but they do sometimes cause hassle to people (like my mate whos estate was recently plagued by a few with poles who banged on doors late at night), and I do think some are right pri**s.
Jan 24 2006 09:07
#2
Without wishing to sound like a sociology textbook, "Hoodies" are a classic moral panic, led by the media and eventually tailgated by politicians.
In the past we have had similar panics about Rottweilers, football hooligans, ecstasy, the Sex Pistols, lager louts, satanic child abuse, etc etc.
As to why Hoodies became a phenomena to be reported, I would venture two suggestions:
1. The fact that large numbers of young people copy whatever fashion is currently popular in the US, and in particular black America. If kids in New York put their underpants on their head on Monday, by Friday someone is doing it in London
2. The need, or the desire, to subvert CCTV cameras.
Jan 24 2006 10:44
#3
I think they are a moral panic but it's undeniable that a load of teenage blokes hanging about at night with their faces covered up can be intimidating to some older people.
Part of this is probably the generation gap, wrong perceptions of the likelihood of violence (fuelled by the media) and so on.
Obviously focussing on the hoodie is completely the wrong angle. Paul is right about CCTV. Are the kids hanging out because there's nowhere else to go... how come communities are so atomised... and so we go on...
Jan 24 2006 10:44
#4
I'd go with Paul Marsh on this one, it's nothing that hasn't been seen before, and it's a fantastically convenient way of criminalising swathes of young people, which is always good for a laugh.
Quote:
(like my mate whos estate was recently plagued by a few with poles who banged on doors late at night)
I misread this bit and thought you were using "hoodies" as a way to attack Polish immigrants. But you weren't 
Jan 24 2006 12:11
#5
Hi
Hoodies aren't even offensive, they're quaint. Bondage trousers, Biker gangs and Skaters all had their day. What gets everyone so uptight is the hoodies are (almost) an authentically working class fashion statement. It puts the shits up all those prissy middle class goth kids.
I can remember when hoodies crossed over from the gay scene in the early nineties, hoody and bomber jackets, we’ll ard. It’s the only way to get that “Trafalgar Square Poll Tax Riot” look.
Any rebellion implicit in the hoodie is old hat anyway. I mean, Lady Sovereign, talk about recuperation.
Love
LR
Jan 24 2006 12:17
#6
Lazy Riser wrote:
HiHoodies aren't even offensive, they're quaint. Bondage trousers, Biker gangs and Skaters all had their day. What gets everyone so uptight is the hoodies are (almost) an authentically working class fashion statement. It puts the shits up all those prissy middle class goth kids.
I can remember when hoodies crossed over from the gay scene in the early nineties, hoody and bomber jackets, we’ll ard. It’s the only way to get that “Trafalgar Square Poll Tax Riot” look.
Any rebellion implicit in the hoodie is old hat anyway. I mean, Lady Sovereign, talk about recuperation.
Love
LR
a) I think you'll find the lil goths and emo brats have been waering the hoodie for years.
b) Don't ever slag off Lady Sovereign ever again. 
Jan 24 2006 13:27
#7
Hi
Lady Sovereign’s nice, but I don’t think her record company is too pleased with her performance. Despite some ostensibly sensible marketing, she’s hardly gripped the yoof’s imagination. Pity really, coz she is good fun and the arrangement on her hooky choons is well tight.
Love
LR
Jan 24 2006 13:30
#8
Hi
Quote:
I think you'll find the lil goths and emo brats have been waering the hoodie for years.
Not those immaculate white Lonsdale jobs. I wonder if we could get chavs to wear those hopelessly gay “BOY” base ball caps that go so well with them.
Love
LR
Jan 24 2006 18:33
#9
I know all about the moral panics and criminological explanations, im just saying that while their is a moral panic going on over hoodies (and also the new one of calling murder/serious assult being called happy slapping) some people in hoodies do cause alot of hassle, that isn't picking on anyone because of their type of clothing, if thats the case i'd need to get rid of 80% of my mates and frequently myself, but I find it an interesting issue as its like the new 'punk' or 'heavy metal' dressing.
Jan 24 2006 18:53
#10
Hi
Quote:
im just saying that while their is a moral panic going on over hoodies
What evidence do you have to support your idea that there is "moral panic" over hoodies?
Quote:
happy slapping
Casuals and Skins got a lot of stick in their day, it’ll pass.
Quote:
its like the new 'punk' or 'heavy metal' dressing
Like I say, it looks more like the Casuals than anything. Punk and Heavy Metal were always very public school.
Love
LR
Jan 24 2006 18:54
#11
Lazy Riser wrote:
Punk and Heavy Metal were always very public school.
CW will take away your membership card!!
Jan 24 2006 19:00
#12
Its DV, i'll keep to this name now.
If you want info on moral panics over hoodies, look in the Mail, Sun, most tabloids. Again happy slapping is a moral panic, that recent case of the four young people that beat that guy to death, its explained as a 'happy slap' death, a girl was sexually assulated a while ago, it was a 'happy slap rape', so there is a moral panic around that to.
Punk isn't public school. Mostly working class or lower middle class. I've rarely seen any people coming from Whitgift (local private school) with any sort of punk attire on, they usually have some sort of european dance music playing or the worst of all emo.
Jan 24 2006 19:17
#13
Hi
Quote:
If you want info on moral panics over hoodies, look in the Mail, Sun, most tabloids
Precisely. The Society of the Spectacle. What would “Happy Slapping” be without the effect of the mobile phone as mass media?
Quote:
Whitgift (local private school) with any sort of punk attire on, they usually have some sort of european dance music playing or the worst of all emo.
Ha ha. Fair play comrade. Seriously though, Heavy Metal (“it’s not Metal it’s Rock”), Marillion. Prog-Rock, know what I mean?
Lots of love
LR
Jan 24 2006 20:19
#14
revol68 wrote:
a) I think you'll find the lil goths and emo brats have been waering the hoodie for years.b) Don't ever slag off Lady Sovereign ever again.
Everything revol said is true.
Plus hoodies have been round for agggggggges, I remember when I was 9 my friend said "aimee, we're skaters. skaters wear hoodies". That was 8 years ago.
Lazy Riser wrote:
HiQuote:
I think you'll find the lil goths and emo brats have been waering the hoodie for years.Not those immaculate white Lonsdale jobs. I wonder if we could get chavs to wear those hopelessly gay “BOY” base ball caps that go so well with them.
Love
LR
emo kids don't wear lonsdale hoodies, trevs do silly get with the street!
Jan 24 2006 21:08
#15
Talking of moral panics, the main writer in this area is Stanley Cohen, who did Folk Devils and Moral Panics. In the intro the the 3rd edition I found it interesting how he showed how a moral panic built up around the James Bulger case yet didn't around the Stephen Lawrance case. I won't go into all he wrote about it here, but he basically gave three reasons for the Stephen Lawrance case not being a moral panic:
1) a suitable enemy- a soft target and the British Police wern't this.
2) a suitable victim- a young, working-class, inner-city black guy wasen't one.
3) the denial that racism is in British society. As such these men who killed him were 'one-of's' and the institutional racism in the Police was dismissed as 'false'.
It may seem like i'm coming across as being abit to analytical but for something that was first writing over 30 yr's ago, it still rings very true today, so to me this shows nothing has changed that much, especially in the media.
Jan 24 2006 21:11
#16
Hi
Quote:
emo kids don't wear lonsdale hoodies, trevs do silly get with the street!
What did I say? Honestly. And trevs are chavs, so nur. Anyway, this is "introductory thought" and I'm trying to make a pro-situ stand.
Love
LR
Jan 24 2006 21:18
#17
Hi
Quote:
he showed how a moral panic built up around the James Bulger case yet didn't around the Stephen Lawrance case
Better, but still not quite right. I did sense mild horror in normal people over James Bulger, but there was also a certain horror over the Lawrence affair, where do you think the phrase “Institutionalised Racism” appeared from? It depends upon the circles one moves in, I suppose.
Quote:
nothing has changed that much
Why would you expect it? What change do you advocate?
Love
LR
Jan 24 2006 21:55
#18
Any group of teenagers scares people. Especially old people. And most teenagers are quite pleased to do this. Hoodies have caught on more, probably because they are an item of clothing. When I was at school guys used to wear bandanas over their faces and pull them down in class (leaving them with a rather saucy-looking cravat)
Don't go along with this trevs/chavs/neds crap. If people are shitheads call them that, there is so much snobbery and racism in those terms that you shouldn't use them.
Happy slapping is bullshit, kids can be arseholes, sometimes they get violent, they have cameras so they can record, so they do. Its like when there were all those arguments about the super breed of football hooligans who "organised using mobile phones"
At least they are dumb enough to collect and keep evidence connecting them to crimes they would have committed anyway.
Jan 24 2006 22:09
#19
Hi
Quote:
Don't go along with this trevs/chavs/neds crap
Can if I like. I love chavs, sluttier the better.
Love
LR
Jan 24 2006 22:26
#20
I dont mind hoodies but prefer it when they say it to my face.
HARD
Jan 24 2006 23:58
#21
Jef Costello wrote:
Don't go along with this trevs/chavs/neds crap. If people are shitheads call them that, there is so much snobbery and racism in those terms that you shouldn't use them
Yeah but it's got nothing to do with class or being snobby, it's just based on your attitude and clothing. it's just another lame teenage tribe to be apart of.
Either way I fucking love hoodies, I have about 8
Jan 25 2006 00:49
#22
wheresmyshoes wrote:
Yeah but it's got nothing to do with class or being snobby, it's just based on your attitude and clothing. it's just another lame teenage tribe to be apart of.
Do you know any people who call themselves chavs?
I'm not doing a Julie Burchill here but it is about race and class
I love teenage tribes, especially the identikit outsiders asserting their individuality, but I don't think chavs are one of them.
Jan 25 2006 01:16
#23
Hi
Quote:
Do you know any people who call themselves chavs?
Absolutely. Some of them are quite post modern as it happens.
Love
LR
Jan 25 2006 01:22
#24
Jef Costello wrote:
Do you know any people who call themselves chavs?
My sister is pretty proud of it. I'd go with shoes on this.
Jan 25 2006 14:18
#25
Grace wrote:
Jef Costello wrote:
Do you know any people who call themselves chavs?My sister is pretty proud of it. I'd go with shoes on this.
That's right 
my friend charlotte is one, and my cousin loves it.
"I'm a fucking chav aim!" he comes from an upper middle-class family and his mum's head of the bristol swp
Jan 25 2006 14:45
#26
hoodies have been around since before the roman invasion - what the fuck you all chatting shit about punks, emos, greebos, chavs for? The problem is the older generation who refuse to accept that the youth of today should be allowed to walk around on their own without getting caned for it!
Only a minority of townies (or chavs if u prefer) are involved in anything more than the most petit of crimes and tmore ASBO's, designed to oppress the youth, have been given to middleaged - middleclass than youths in some part of the country, including east-anglia.
If you wear a hoody - KEEP IT UP - if you don't - DONT 
Jan 25 2006 21:31
#27
Shoes Grace LR, you are all joking right?
Jan 25 2006 21:56
#28
Hi
Make your point Jef. If you dare.
Love
LR
Jan 25 2006 22:00
#29
I made it.
Chav is a snobby and often racist term used mostly by the middle classes. I don't like it one bit. I was fairly sure shoes was joking, unsure about Grace and I thought you were taking the piss. You still might be.
Got to run, Action is about to start.
Jan 25 2006 22:08
#30
Jef Costello wrote:
I made it.Chav is a snobby and often racist term used mostly by the middle classes. I don't like it one bit. I was fairly sure shoes was joking, unsure about Grace and I thought you were taking the piss. You still might be.
Got to run, Action is about to start.
I can see how chav might be seen as snobby, but I can't grasp the racist angle. 
Sites like ChavScum etc are nasty little sites were jumped up lil pricks make disgustingly bigotted remarks about a large sub section of alienated youth.
I can see how one could argue that if someone generalised about black or asian youth in the same way people do about chavs it would be labelled racist, but the simple fact is it refers to a sub culture (though I wouldn't go so far as to equate it with goths, teds, or skinheads) that transcends race and often class.
I wear hoodies and I wouldn't touch a fly. I don't think a person can be stereotyped as a trouble maker based on one item of clothing they wear. In fact that's utter bullshit. Yes, a lot of trouble makers do wear them but you can't generalise based on fashion.