Individual wealth redistribution

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888's picture
888
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Jun 10 2007 01:37

great, if your interest is starting up ethical collectives rather than destroying capitalism.

revol68's picture
revol68
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Jun 10 2007 03:22

if your activist friend waned to make himself working clas he'd spend the money on a pile of shite, become depressed and then turn to drugs.

if i had 200k i wouldn't be giving it to any fucking anarchists, i use it to help me live a nice life , probably just buy a house outright so i don't have to worry about a mortgage.

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Jun 10 2007 09:27

AFraser you're thinking UK property prices, in the US $400,000 is worth $400,000, it doesn't compare to UK money and in Houston for example can buy some pretty substantial [url=http://www.commgate.com/index.cfm?pagename=inc_FS_pick_search.cfm&sch_string=ptype=|ptyp_ret=1|ptyp_off=1|ptyp_land=0|ptyp_mult=0|ptyp_ind=1|ptyp_farm=0|ptyp_hot=0|ptyp_mob=0|ptyp_spl=0|Minlp=250,000|Maxlp=300,000|minsqft=|maxsqft=|minlot=|maxlot=|minacr=|maxacr=|mincap=|maxcap=|map=|minland=|maxland=|area=|ln=|str_name=|agentbit=|mcdadeonly=|zip=|invsearch=|cityName=|invonly=0&sch=1&srow=1]properties[/url] with a fair chunk of money spare for emergencies, renovation, advertising etc as well.

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Jun 10 2007 11:04
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The whole operation could be self financing if risky third sector loans were spread amongst many different businesses: the return from the successful ones could, with interest, offset the cost of debt write-offs for the failures.

while this is true in theory, the scale involved for it to actually work in practice is enormous

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Jun 10 2007 11:10
revol68 wrote:
i
if i had 200k i wouldn't be giving it to any fucking anarchists, i use it to help me live a nice life , probably just buy a house outright so i don't have to worry about a mortgage.

i agree with this, it's what i'd do, and then donate time & energy which is undoubdetly a harder thing to do and sustain than just chucking a wodge of cash at a project and expect to have some overriding say in how it's run

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Jun 10 2007 11:15

Revol is right. He should buy himself a house.
Devrim

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Jun 10 2007 13:31
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If anyone has serious responses, they would be appreciated

My response was serious. I also recommend buying a house. Philanthropy sucks. I'm reminded what Malcom X said to the rich white girl when she asked "What can I do?". "Nothing", he replied. He felt bad about later apparently.

El_Borrador
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Jun 10 2007 20:21
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So after the revolution, you plan to shoot everyone with rich parents? That sounds a bit authoritarian to me...

Sure does, you can kill the rich man but it doesn't end class antagonisms or hierarchy. Rather it continues them for ever. By button's logic he'd be gunning down Kropotkin and Engels, which would be very silly.

Anyways, on the topic of money, why not put it towards non-religious, non-profit charities that aid people in immediate need? Or there's the Anarchist Black Cross etc.

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Jun 10 2007 20:31
El_Borrador wrote:
By button's logic he'd be gunning down Kropotkin and Engels, which would be very silly.

aye, you'd have to dig them up, waste bullets on a corpse and then re-bury them. hardly a model of revolutionary efficiency. i'm sure comrade button would pass a decree commuting dead sons and daughters of the bourgeoisie's death sentences to life in terra wink

posi
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Jun 10 2007 21:08

j.rogue.

Your pal should give a bunch of money to the Ontario Coalition Against Poverty.

They're one of the few anarchisty groups which actually do a reasonable job of building working class/poor people's leadership and taking direct action. They've got a record of winning, so you'd be putting the money somewhere with the reasonable expectation that it'd be well used, not pissed away in a long and steep learning curve.

If he doesn't mind sending some over to britain, drop me a pm - I know a project that could go a long way with just a grand, and I'll send you details.

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Jun 10 2007 21:16

fuck that, if he gets to decide what project it goes to he's ruling class.

the Northeastern Anarchist collective hereby claims 1/4 of it, to become a proper continental magazine with good distribution.

j.rogue
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Jun 11 2007 15:30
MJ wrote:
fuck that, if he gets to decide what project it goes to he's ruling class.

It doesn't challenge the capitalist system for rich people to decide what should be done with their money. That is what philanthropy is, and that model is mad problematic. Which is why he is trying to find another way to redistribute his wealth, that doesn't reinforce the power of the ruling class. Sure, there is no way to do it perfectly, so long as we live under capitalism, but htere has to be a better way than the philanthropic model.

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Jun 11 2007 15:32

Yes, I'm agreeing with that. That's why I'm saying it's not his choice. I'm demanding 1/4 of it on behalf of a collective project already underway.. You probably won't pass along my demand, because you want to position yourself as a gatekeeper to his wealth.

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Jun 11 2007 15:33
j.rogue wrote:
but htere has to be a better way than the philanthropic model.

like getting himself a house

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Jun 11 2007 15:57

That's not rich, here that would get you a bit more than half a house.

He should buy himself a house, that's what I'd do.

If he is keen to give it away though, I would advise he give it to well-organised anarchist communist projects with long term goals, and staying power, so it won't be pissed away.

Hell, he could even give some to us. We've just upgraded our hosting again due to increases in traffic, and need cash for that and for advertising. Some monthly donation would be hugely useful.

j.rogue
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Jun 11 2007 16:38
MJ wrote:
Yes, I'm agreeing with that. That's why I'm saying it's not his choice. I'm demanding 1/4 of it on behalf of a collective project already underway.. You probably won't pass along my demand, because you want to position yourself as a gatekeeper to his wealth.

I will pass along this demand.
the gatekeeper has spoken.

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Jun 11 2007 16:41

grin

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Jun 11 2007 16:44

Oh and he can be on the NEA advisory board if he wants, as a token of our gratitude, when we put one together.

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Jun 11 2007 16:55
MJ wrote:
Oh and he can be on the NEA advisory board if he wants, as a token of our gratitude, when we put one together.

You'd have to change the name. No More Butt Flaps Magazine maybe.

j.rogue
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Jun 11 2007 18:54

Damnit, I just wasted a bunch of time trying to find an online copy of the article, "Buying An Activist Identity" to link to, but alas. Would've been clever of me, too.

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Jun 16 2007 14:19

I don't think it reinforces capitalism in a particularly important way for your friend to make the decision about where to donate the money. I _do_ think that there are limits to the whole 'leftist foundation' idea and I do think that the motivation for most people with a lot of money in giving money away is to ease their own guilt. At the same time, lack of money limits good projects and more money would be a big help. Your friend has the money and that's just the reality. Being too moralizing or guilt wracked about how to give it away isn't much different than any other people with money - redistributing it may be philanthropy but it's certainly better (in terms of being useful) than your friend just keeping it. I think your friend should pick some stuff that already has a track record of producing worthwhile results (so the money won't go to drugs or a house for Revol) and for whom additional money would be a big help. So, 100k for NEFAC, $10k to the WSA, some donation to the IWW's organizing fund and/or the Industrial Worker publishing fund, maybe a donation to the Institute for Anarchist Studies, etc. If your friend gives it to good groups then the money won't be wasted. If your friend gives it with no strings attached then its not the same as most philanthropy, which requires a grant report etc. Another way to think about it is this - think about what projects groups do that are good out of their own dues money. Think about the ones of those that are small enough that you could make a meaningful donation out of 400k. Fund those.

j.rogue
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Jun 18 2007 18:52

Keeping it is not an option.

He wrote a really good piece on his position, but it is kind of long. Is there anywhere I can post it?

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Jun 18 2007 19:00

I'm not reading what some rich dude feels about his inheritance. Help him get rid of it this week (preferably including $100k to the NEA) and I'll totally read it.

j.rogue
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Jun 18 2007 20:11

Wow, with an attitude like that, you would think it was 1930. You're right, its all capitalist fat cats and factory workers out there.

Edited to add: It isn't "what some rich guy thinks about his inheritance" it is a criticism of philanthropy and how it keeps the ruling class in power. You all are totally functioning on assumptions that are way off base.

Nate's picture
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Jun 18 2007 20:11

Rogue, why not post it as a thread on libcom?

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Jun 18 2007 20:14
MJ wrote:
I'm not reading what some rich dude feels about his inheritance. Help him get rid of it this week (preferably including $100k to the NEA) and I'll totally read it.

?

j.rogue
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Jun 18 2007 20:19
Nate wrote:
Rogue, why not post it as a thread on libcom?

It is really long. Like 8,000 words.

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Jun 18 2007 20:50
j.rogue wrote:
Wow, with an attitude like that, you would think it was 1930. You're right, its all capitalist fat cats and factory workers out there.

j.rogue
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Jun 18 2007 20:52

roll eyes

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Jun 18 2007 21:00

roll eyes