Industrial Regeneration and the Working Class Project

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Lazy Riser's picture
Lazy Riser
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Aug 24 2005 13:01
Industrial Regeneration and the Working Class Project

Hi

Why should we actively encourage the UK’s industrial regeneration? Why is the development of local primary industrial capacity in the best interests of the libertarian left project?

How you answer that question depends very much on what you think working class revolution is to achieve, that is to say, the problem we are trying to solve.

First, I would like to seek the opinion of my respected comrades. Does anyone think the following statement is false?

Quote:
The biggest problem we face is economic insecurity and ineffective political representation

I’ll take the liberty of assuming that whether these are two problems or one is irrelevant. To head off an argument regarding connotations of the word “representation”, I’ll be proposing direct democracy in firms and neighbourhoods. If you think the biggest problem we face is cruelty to animals, “mean people” or “unfairness”, then all bets are off.

Love

LR

MalFunction
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Aug 25 2005 08:19

greets

sorry may be a silly question but are you talking about industrial regen within the capitalist world economic system or in some future post-capitalist society?

if former i suspect it's not very likely - part due to using up some much of the asily available natural resources with the first industrial rev. secondly how would any industry compete with exisiting cheap labour business?

equally what industry are hoping to regen?

mal

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cantdocartwheels
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Aug 25 2005 10:52

25 years ago they were talking about opening up coal mines in essex (theres a huge seam of coal under dagenham and barking i beleive), so i guess theres always room for arguement, though i can't see much point in discussing this since its all a bit weird and i''m extremely uncomfortable with making up ''plans'' about how or if it should be regenearted.

Mike Harman
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Aug 25 2005 16:28

why is it weird and why are you uncomfortable?

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Refused
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Aug 25 2005 17:31

New armchair.

Lazy Riser's picture
Lazy Riser
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Aug 25 2005 19:08

Hi Mal

Quote:
are you talking about industrial regen within the capitalist world economic system or in some future post-capitalist society?

Both. I am suggesting we increase our local primary industrial capability right now.

Quote:
if former i suspect it's not very likely - part due to using up some much of the asily available natural resources with the first industrial rev

Perhaps. Industrialisation could certainly stand some acceleration. You’d be forgiven for thinking that it looks “not very likely”, but dwindling natural resources do not account for our industrial decline. You’ll notice that call centres are being relocated back in the UK, that’s for a complex set of reasons that predict a new late capitalist trajectory. One that plays into our hands, just as Marx predicted.

Quote:
Scondly how would any industry compete with exisiting cheap labour business?

A mixed bag of points address this question.

1.

Cheap foreign labour will not be cheap forever. China is currently operating as a loss leader, trading on the poverty of it’s own working class and state payouts to foreign capitalist businesses. As the incomes of the Chinese working class rise, there will be more incentive to relocate “labour intensive” industry to poorer regions, such as areas in our own country.

2.

The most “labour intensive” occupations are those most prone to automation. This is increasingly a question of ownership of fixed capital. I would tentatively propose that cheap land was an important economic driver for off shoring. By increasing automation and subsidising fixed capital the means of production could be relocated locally.

3.

Economies that have too large a tertiary component are fragile. Failures in the complex financial juggling act required keeping them churning lead to economic insecurity, debt and bankruptcy, unhappiness and violence, authoritarianism and social conditioning. Taken to their logical conclusion, such economies represent a weak market for the goods whose production has been off shored. Direct wealth producing industry will relocate in order to provide incomes capable of sustaining a market.

4.

Economies that have too large a tertiary component are stagnant. When you offshore manufacturing, you offshore research, development and design. You turn the commercial infrastructure over to spivs who are talented only in sophistry and manipulation. In education, Maths and hard science are hopelessly under subscribed in recognition of the professional opportunities available to those who risk their undertaking. This is not a pleasant place for the human species to inhabit and smart people will encourage change.

5.

Off shoring was politically contrived as much as economically motivated. What looks like "laissez faire" global markets are really subject to heavy intervention. Deindustrialisation is a method of frustrating the working class project, either by accident or design. The programme of deindustrialisation, the decay and poverty we see around us today, has its roots in the monetarist policies introduced by Healy, toeing the IMF’s line in 1976. Now our accounts with the IMF are settled, I can’t tell whether the current political establishment’s industrial strategy is ineffective, misguided or misanthropic.

But these arguments are all for nought if we want different things in the first place. What do you think the problem with Capitalism is? Do you agree that our problem is economic insecurity and ineffective political representation? If you disagree, then it may be in my best interests for you to continue to hold your existing position.

Love

LR

MalFunction
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Aug 26 2005 08:59

greets

quick points - call centres are not industry. def service sector.

point about resources is that currently there's plenty of more easily obtainable and cheaper resources elsewhere.

cheap labour- agree won't always be cheap in present places. but if you wany industrial regen now you'll be in direct competition with it.

a lot of the industry that does set up here is only here because of govt bribes. once they're pocketed the factories often close down.

environmentally not too sure i'd want another round of industrialisation in uk. also (heretical thought) does the working class want to be herded back into factories to do manual labour? twisted

mal

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Aug 26 2005 12:13

Hi

Quote:
call centres are not industry. def service sector

Pedantic point, and also arguable. IT help desks, service centres, advice bureaux etc are necessary components of industrial infrastructure. However, even if I concede to your point, it still illustrates the willingness to relocate activity away from so called “cheap labour economies” for a set of complex tensions and pressures. What do you make of recently reintroduced restrictions on Chinese clothing imports to Europe?

Quote:
point about resources is that currently there's plenty of more easily obtainable and cheaper resources elsewhere

Cheap natural resources in foreign countries do not account for our industrial decline. The “price” of these things has more to do with the nuances of international finance and state subsidy than it has to do with availability or ease of extraction. For what it’s worth, I understand that we are one of the most productive coal producers in the world.

Quote:
cheap labour- agree won't always be cheap in present places. but if you wany industrial regen now you'll be in direct competition with it.

You could look at it like that, but no more than you and I compete for the same air. You’d be better off seeing yourself as a benign pace maker for the working class project. Do you think there is such a thing?

Quote:
a lot of the industry that does set up here is only here because of govt bribes. once they're pocketed the factories often close down

Yes, capitalism is bad. Economic insecurity and ineffective political representation are the order of the day. The above statement is as true of commerce generally at home and abroad and is an argument for direct democracy in firms.

Quote:
environmentally not too sure i'd want another round of industrialisation in uk

Industrialisation and pollution are not synonymous. We’d use technology to make it clean.

Quote:
also (heretical thought) does the working class want to be herded back into factories to do manual labour?

Office jobs are as manual as traditional blue collar jobs and in many cases worse with little opportunity for promotion on experience or skill. Industrialisation increases wealth, rather than creates boring jobs. I’m more interested in the impact on the scientific, technical and creative sectors. The inflammatory “herding” imagery you invoke sounds like the chauvinism employed by the bourgeoisie in the early 80’s to soften us up for increasing the alienation of the proletariat from the means of production.

But these points just chip away at the detail. If you prefer living in a deindustrialised locale, then step aside. We have work to do. I ask you again, what do you think the problem with Capitalism is? Pollution? Or do you agree that the reason for working class revolution is to rid ourselves of economic alienation and political disenfranchisement? Set out your stall, political passports please!

Quote:
Programme first! "Mass Paper"? Revolutionary action? Regroupment? Communes everywhere? ...very well, very well... But programme first! Your political passports please, gentleman! And not false ones if you please, real ones! If you don't have any, then pipe down!

Love

Chris

MalFunction
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Aug 26 2005 14:07

greets

some info on coal:

Quote:
COAL

UK Coal Consumption, by End Use, 1970-2003. Having problems contact our National Energy Information Center at 202-586-8800 for help. The UK has an estimated 1.65 billion short tons (Bst) of recoverable coal reserves. The country is the fifth-largest coal producer in the EU, with output of 31.1 million short tons (Mmst) in 2003, according to DTI. Coal production in the UK has declined steadily and dramatically over the past several decades, down 82 percent since the early 1970s. Decreasing domestic consumption and a surge of low-cost imports have been the principle causes of the production decline. In 2003, DTI reported that the UK imported more coal than it produced domestically, 35.7 Mmst, principally from South Africa (38 percent), Australia (18 percent), and Russia (16 percent).

In line with the fall in production, DTI reported that coal consumption has also decreased from 175.9 Mmst in 1970 to 68.7 Mmst in 2003. Industrial users of coal have caused the largest declines in coal consumption, and the overall makeup of coal consumption has changed dramatically as overall consumption levels have declined. Final consumption, including industrial, residential, and other final uses, constituted 28 percent of total coal consumption in 1970 but only 3 percent in 2003. Electricity generation constituted 49 percent of total coal consumption in the UK in 1970, but increased to 86 percent of total consumption by 2003.

In order to meet its obligations under the Kyoto Protocol, the UK likely will continue to phase out coal consumption and production. Nevertheless, the UK government continues to provide financial support to the industry. In June 2003, the UK government launched the Coal Investment Aid program, with a budget of up to $111 million. The goal of the project is to create or safeguard jobs in the UK coal industry by encouraging coal producers to enter into investment projects that maintain access to reserves.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/uk.html

we may be one of the larger coal producers in the EU, but the amount produced has declined dramatically in the past 35 years. several reasons but mainly because its cheaper to import coal from lower wage areas than invest in increasingly difficult to get at reserves domestically.

point about industrial production is that it needs raw materials, labour power, transport/infrastructure, skills, markets etc. places where there is the best combination (from capital's point of view) will be the ones most likely to be where inductrial activity takes place most.

UK seems to be heading in the direction of assemblage of basic elements produced elsewhere.

as for what i want - well i live in a rural environment (used to be in london), yet i have been arguing locally for the retention of light industrial work opportunities to stop the area losing ever more work, improving skills base, better wages etc. so i'd actually like to see more (dispersed) "industrial" production in the UK.

now my somewhat jocular comment about the whether the working class wants to work in factories has some seriousness about it. many miners, whilst bitter about the close down of their industry and the effect on their communities equally wouldn't necessarily have wanted their kids to go down the mines if there were equally well paid jobs available locally. historically (pace ep thompson et al) there was an almighty struggle to get people to work in factories and accept industrial discipline.

call centres - well some companies are finding the benefits of outsourcing are less than they expected very true, but others are still going ahead with it.

so (within capitalism) i'd very approve of the creation of large numbers of well-paid, meaningful employment opportunities involving the creation of wealth, for socially beneficial purposes. sadly i feel capitalism has other plans.

mal

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Aug 26 2005 15:15

Hi

Quote:
sadly i feel capitalism has other plans

Indeed. So it’s “capitalism’s plans” that are the problem? Capitalism is not sentient and cannot plan. These “plans” of which you speak are nothing more than the aggregation of bourgeois desire, the activities and aspirations of the incumbent elite. The plans of individual bourgeois can be foiled, and often are.

Quote:
yet i have been arguing locally for the retention of light industrial work opportunities

So you’re on side after all! Why waste my time with arguments? Let those who would stand against industrialisation set out their case.

Luckily enough for you, a combination of internal tensions within capitalist ranks, the natural dynamics of markets, consumer/producer preference and economic necessity will see your efforts are eventually rewarded my friend. Moreover, industrial regeneration has a crucial part to play in expediting the working class project, not just for us here in the UK, but also for our comrades abroad.

Love

Chris

Mike Harman
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Aug 26 2005 18:32

I think more important than re-industrialisation, both now and long term, is a localisation of staple food production and energy generation.

If you're looking at the availability of consumer goods in a revolutionary society - I'd say we've got plenty as it is to last for a good while. What we wouldn't have after even a short while is sufficient food, electricity and oil.

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Lazy Riser
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Aug 26 2005 19:01

Hi

Quote:
I think more important than re-industrialisation, both now and long term, is a localisation of staple food production

Indeed. “Localisation of staple food production” is certainly a component of what I envisage, and practically doable. Perhaps “Industrialisation” is the wrong word for what I’m trying to convey, but we’ll certainly need more tractors and combine harvesters, plus engineers to design them and mechanics to maintain them.

Quote:
and energy generation

Again, I can’t argue with you. We’ll need to build power stations. What you’re suggesting here is a robust infrastructure, that provides us with a safe level of economic self-sufficiency.

An example of what I’m after would be to turn over derelict plant to a hydrogen fuel cell development programmes, say.

Quote:
If you're looking at the availability of consumer goods in a revolutionary society…

Spoilsport, your programme is even more focused on primary industry than mine.

Lots of love

Chris

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Jan 9 2006 19:34

Hi

Quote:
Maybe you should explain what you mean by "regenerating primary industry". Are you advocating that this should be done on the basis of commodity production, i.e. a new cycle of capital accumulation directed by the workers councils?

By regenerating primary industry I mean giving ourselves some useful means of production to direct. I’m not too sure about all the specialised Marxist vocabulary about “commodity production”, but I wouldn’t have too many objections to ramping up production of novelty toothbrushes if it suited the purposes of the autonomous working class in transition.

Anyway I was wondering, what if you regenerate primary industry as part of a transitionary programme? Would our resources not be useful to comrades abroad, increasing the chances of their own revolt?

Love

LR

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jef costello
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Jan 9 2006 20:15
Quote:
Coal production in the UK has declined steadily and dramatically over the past several decades, down 82 percent since the early 1970s.

You mean it's declined since the miner's strike and large scale closures of productive pits eek

I agree LR that the country needs more primary industry, I just wonder if there are enough resources that can actually be got at. We should also try to sort out agriculture so we produced stuff we actually ate.

I think that by increasing the working class population we would bring revolution closer, rather than a small working class under pressure due to the massive lumpenproletariat.

And bring back National Service. black bloc