Looking for Principia Dialectica

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Angelus Novus
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Sep 24 2006 00:11
Looking for Principia Dialectica

It seems to be an English-language equivalent of the German Wertkritik tendency exemplified by Exit! and Krisis .

Alas, I do not live in England.

And strangely, they do not seem to have a contact address on their website

Does anyone know where I may obtain the first two issues via mailorder?

si
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Sep 24 2006 10:13

it's not nearly as good as krisis you know.

Worth a look though I suppose.

Contact stuff

theeditors@principiadialectica.co.uk

BM CHRONOS
London WC1 N3XX

£3.50, 5 euros, $5 per issue plus 20% overseas postage.

Cheques payable to Principia Dialectica

si
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Sep 24 2006 10:14

From a cartoon on the back page (so people can get an idea...)

"Herbert Marcuse was right to say that the proletariat is incorporated, many did not like to hear that truth in his 'one dimensional man'. Today it is confirmed. Better get it in your heads!"

No comment.

=\

There are some entertaining articles though.

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PaulMarsh
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Sep 24 2006 10:17

The editor nearly always has a stall at the Anarchist Bookfair.

I shall be gunning for him this year though - he sold me a DVD on Jacques Mesrine last year, and neglected to tell me it was in French throughout.....

Angelus Novus
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Jul 20 2010 22:45

.

sphinx
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Sep 24 2006 13:56
Quote:
it's a re-capitulation of the Situationist position that the working class must abolish itself (which Moishe Postone himself even formulates in a footnote in Time, Labor, and Social Domination)

One of my favorite capitulations ever!

(Salut to AN, we keep bumping into each other)

Dave Antagonism
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Sep 27 2006 03:05

Could someone please either tell us more about or point us in the direction of Krisis and Exit!

redstars/blackskies/greenearth

bastarx
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Sep 27 2006 04:35

I think they agree with Marx's value-critique but don't think that the working class can overthrow value.

I have the 1st issue of Principia Dialectica if you wanna have a look at it.

Pete

Sean68
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Sep 27 2006 14:34

Repressing desire never works, as any good student of Freud knows...so with that in mind the new and improved Principia Dialectica is out now...Issue 2 will be at the Anarchist bookfair in October. If you can't wait until then, unreconstructed class warriors are welcome to vent their spleens on our weblog...http://www.principiadialectica.co.uk

si
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Sep 27 2006 15:07

Number 2 has a beautiful cover by the look of it. I'm looking forward to it. Actually I'm looking forward to this year's bookfair in general. Literally throbbing with excitement.

eh.

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georgestapleton
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Sep 27 2006 16:23

Sean68 - revol68 after me converting him. He's a gaelgeoir now.

dara
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Sep 27 2006 16:50
si wrote:
Literally throbbing with excitement.

you should get that looked at.

si
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Sep 28 2006 11:20

it was a joke darlin'. Are you coming to the bookfair?

Angelus Novus
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Jul 20 2010 22:45

.

Angelus Novus
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Jul 20 2010 22:45

.

Sean68
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Sep 29 2006 13:32

There's a website called Rotten Elements who have a rather funny review of Principia Dialectica by a one Vivian Bolus. Needless to say, Mr Bolus will be sent to a re-education camp after the revolution...

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Joseph Kay
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Sep 29 2006 15:59

sort your quotes out revol!

edit: cheers, now you just need to tell us what you're quoting wink

Angelus Novus
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Sep 29 2006 16:40

yeah! fuckin' counter-cultural bullshit!

With penetrating insights like that, how can I even respond?

lem
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Sep 29 2006 18:12

I don't trust them tongue

Lol. If they want to be artists, then they should be artists. If they want to save the world they should volunteer.

I mean, alienation is not important to them, or they would make the proletariat the revolutionary subject (and if they don't appreciate this then they've never had to work).

So why combine the two?

neutral

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georgestapleton
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Oct 3 2006 01:00
Angelus Novus wrote:
yeah! fuckin' counter-cultural bullshit!

With penetrating insights like that, how can I even respond?

To be fair - and god I hate defending revol - but there is a number of points in what he wrote that go beyond "yeah! fuckin' counter-cultural bullshit!" and that should be addressed. To dismiss his criticism of Principia Dialectica because of the vitriolic manner in which he makes it is kind of disingenuous.

ValerieValorisation
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Oct 13 2006 10:54

Have just managed to find Issue No. 1 of this mag. There's a really great artilcle in there by Enzo Paci (who used to teach Hardt/Negri back in the 1950s) all about Marx's concept of value. Blinding article all about the ghost like appearance of value...well worth a read.

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Joseph Kay
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Oct 13 2006 11:21

what's PD's general angle? ... from a cursory look at the site it seems to be anti-class struggle ('beyond the class war rhetoric', postone ...) and a little hysterical (the SWP are 'stalinist' for not stocking PD in their shop).

i mean it looks pretty and i haven't yet seen the actual content, i'm just wondering whether it's worth getting a copy at the bookfair? Is it new articles or reprints?

BB
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Oct 13 2006 14:41
Joseph K. wrote:
i mean it looks pretty and i haven't yet seen the actual content, i'm just wondering whether it's worth getting a copy at the bookfair? Is it new articles or reprints?

I've got a copy, i'll see if i can find it for monday.

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Joseph Kay
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Oct 13 2006 14:54

cheers

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Red Marriott
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Oct 15 2006 00:00

PD is largely based around an ex-ultra-orthodox situ, who after having been THE MOST LOYAL of Debordists, rejected him shortly before his death. Nowadays he has embraced Postone & co, and is rehashing the old 'the proletariat hasn't created a successful revolution - this proves it is just eternally trapped in a cycle of class struggle that merely integrates it into the system blah blah...' as some supposed great new theoretical breakthrough. Their former class prole-god has failed them/short-changed them on their investment, so must be denounced. All who still see some potential in class struggle are 'dinosaurs trapped in the swamp' quote unquote.
There may be some interesting eco-info in there.

Mike Harman
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Oct 15 2006 08:25

This was disappointing:
http://www.principiadialectica.co.uk/blog/index.php/6

Quote:
A Stalinist Bookshop in the Heart of London?

The people who run the Socialist Workers’ Party bookshop called ‘Bookmarks’ in Central London are into censorship - and it stinks. We publish a magazine that any socialist or anti-capitalist would be interested in reading but the stiff bosses in Bloomsbury decided to censor it instead. Indeed, Issue No 2 is one of the few journals in the English language carrying articles by the German group Krisis, as well as the eminent and widely respected American Marx scholar Moishe Postone. Bookmarks refuse to stock the magazine and wouldn’t give us a reason. Principia Dialectica don’t allow a platform for fascists or racists: perhaps it’s because we encourage debate about some old Left-wing shibboleths, especially those to do with ‘class struggle’ - so dear to those unable to come to terms with the grim reality of 2006.
This is too serious an issue simply for it to be a case of us here at Principia feeling ‘put out.’ The draconian management at Bookmarks are letting down anyone seriously engaged in an attempt to make sense of our world today. You may not agree with all the ideas contained in Principia Dialectica, but by remaining ignorant of the debates and issues we raise, anti-capitalists of all types will find it harder to win arguments in the wider world - a world that has moved on considerably since Marx wrote the Communist Manifesto.
For the bug-eyed management at Bookmarks perhaps it is still as simple as ‘the workers versus the bosses.’ It’s a real shame though, because Bookmarks in the old days used to be a thriving socialist bookshop in the heart of North London, a real hub of debate and discussion, with a vast array of exciting literature, always full up with people. It’s hardly surprising that it’s usually empty now most days, and is only kept on the life support system by the party faithful, compliant enough to dig deep week after week to pay the bills.

We gave the SWP one last chance to wise up: A member of the Central Committee who used to be known for her independence of mind and spirit failed to respond. Sadly, she too has been lost to the party mince machine. Luckily, the comrades can sneak off to those bookshops in London that aren’t scared of challenging ideas…

Shows a real misunderstanding of the SWP - they're neither Stalinists nor "workers vs. bosses", and it reminds me of the conflation of "not stocking" with "censorship" when people took Hakim Bey off the shelves of Freedom. There's a million reasons why Bookmarks is shit, and they manage to miss nearly all of them.

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Joseph Kay
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Oct 15 2006 08:46

yeah that's what i was alluding to earlier. it makes me seriously doubt their critical faculties (which might be why they dismiss class struggle and like postone wink).

Mike Harman
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Oct 15 2006 09:04
Joseph K. wrote:
yeah that's what i was alluding to earlier. it makes me seriously doubt their critical faculties

oops, missed that bit of the post, beaten to it sad Three posts on chavs underneath it.

Quote:
As for the IKEA boss, he was a Swedish Nazi after World War Two. From Nazism to furniture design - it’s all about fooling the masses. We hope that some will reflect on this grim reality and draw their own conclusions. We have to point out that the logic of the commodity economy reduces humans to consumers, and in such a role care about nothing except the bargains they can purchase. It all ends it tears, because the shoddy goods they have purchased fall apart very rapidly: they forget that built in obsolescence is part of the commodity-trap. Suckers.

Well they didn't say sheeple...

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Joseph Kay
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Oct 15 2006 09:16

and they approvingly quote marcuse apparently ... so cutting-edge critical theory ... of the early 60s! tongue

i might get a copy for laughs, but it does look terrible, despite all it's cutting-edge theory beyond-the-class struggle swamp pretensions ... great aesthetic though, looks like more effort goes into the design than the theory.

apparently postone is fairly influential in some quarters, so i might read his thing just to know where he's coming from (i only know of him via critiques)

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Red Marriott
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Oct 15 2006 11:50
Princ.Dia. wrote:
You may not agree with all the ideas contained in Principia Dialectica, but by remaining ignorant of the debates and issues we raise, anti-capitalists of all types will find it harder to win arguments in the wider world
Catch wrote:
There's a million reasons why Bookmarks is shit, and they manage to miss nearly all of them.

Yeh it's as if Bookmarks would be OK if only they stocked their mag, and so stopped disarming 'anti-capitalists' of the crucial ideas that can apparently only be found within its pages.

The only time Bookmarks was any good was when it was based in Finsbury Park and carried a wide stock of decent non-Party material, enabling anarchists and communists to shoplift to their heart's content.

Btw, a bunch of people went out for a meal with Postone after he spoke in London a couple of years ago and some got in a row with him. One of them, who's Jewish and anti-Zionist, told me Postone totally defends the State of Israel in orthodox Zionist terms. That old German leftist guilt.

poet duster
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Oct 22 2006 22:34

The new Aufheben has a long review of Postone's Time, labour and social domination, which I spent most of this pm chewing over.

I found PD 2, in the main, to be thoroughly worthwhile and interesting. The cartoon about the canteen on p2 is funny as fuck.

The best thing about PD is that it opens up a whole stream of analysis regarding the left's idolisation of the proletariat as the proletariat. Can a product of capital be the answer to its overthrow? But at this point maybe it's easier to pose the question than give an answer.

To develop this idea, The rotten elements will be looking at the PD critique of metaphysics/Georg Lukács' History and class consciousness (in PD 2) in our November issue (online, god willing, by November 3). But I don't want to blow our bolt, so I'll shut up until it is published.