Nihilism??

111 posts / 0 new
Last post
madashell's picture
madashell
Offline
Joined: 19-06-06
Oct 16 2004 12:12
Username wrote:
revol68 wrote:
yes we know there's no point so shut the fuck up and let us make our own.

WHO SAID THERE WAS NO POINT? confused

Nihilists. Surely that is the point wink

madashell's picture
madashell
Offline
Joined: 19-06-06
Oct 16 2004 12:13
Username wrote:
That's because nihilists aren't in favor of anything 'cause they believe any replacement will be just as bad.

So why don't you all top yourselves then?

Augusto_Sandino
Offline
Joined: 21-02-04
Oct 16 2004 12:23
GenerationTerrorist wrote:
kropotkin is generally regarded as the founder of anarchist communism.

Id give that prize to Proudhon first i think...

GenerationTerrorist wrote:
wasn't nietsche supposed to be one of the big influences on nihilism, with that beyond good and evil thing? which incidently is the name of a rather good album by an obscure swedish band called the pornorphans...

Is it just me, or was Nietsche an influence on ALL political theories? Anarchism, Nihilism, Fascism, Conservatism...

Augusto_Sandino
Offline
Joined: 21-02-04
Oct 16 2004 12:28
Username wrote:
Augusto_Sandino wrote:
its all about violence, and revolution, and perpetuation of that i think...

I'm one nihilist who doesn't believe in violence/revolution. Y'all are very biased 'cause y'all think a person associating nihilism with a lack of socialism is trolling. maybe y'all should study nihilism's history with anarchism and discover how nihilism's opposition to socialism was/is a reality. early russian anarchists/nihilists weren't socialists. bakunin and kropotkin, before exile, are two popular examples, and the only two i know. thanks, sorry if i still come off trollish.

I didnt say that, you can have right-wing or no-wing revolutions as well.

And why "edit: arse" Woodbine? I didnt say i was some sort of expert on Mussolini either, i was just suggesting it...

Username
Offline
Joined: 15-09-04
Oct 16 2004 12:34
madashell wrote:
[. . .] why don't you all top yourselves then?

what? confused

Username
Offline
Joined: 15-09-04
Oct 16 2004 12:36
Augusto_Sandino wrote:
[. . .]you can have right-wing or no-wing revolutions as well.

so? i said i wasn't into revolutions at all. i didn't say anything about left-wing revolutions. i am for reforms, though, anything that will make any of our lives better (society less stratified).

Augusto_Sandino
Offline
Joined: 21-02-04
Oct 16 2004 12:38

Yeah, but straight after that you started going on about how we get at you for not being socialist... Where those two different points?

madashell's picture
madashell
Offline
Joined: 19-06-06
Oct 16 2004 12:40
Username wrote:
madashell wrote:
[. . .] why don't you all top yourselves then?

what? confused

You said that whatever you have it will be equally crap and as a nihilist, you don't believe in an overarching purpose for life, right? So why bother? What is the fucking point?

Username
Offline
Joined: 15-09-04
Oct 16 2004 12:47
Augusto_Sandino wrote:
Yeah, but straight after that you started going on about how we get at you for not being socialist... Where those two different points?

yes, i have an unrelated reason, but i have a related reason as well.

Username
Offline
Joined: 15-09-04
Oct 16 2004 12:48
madashell wrote:
You said that whatever you have it will be equally crap and as a nihilist, you don't believe in an overarching purpose for life, right? So why bother? What is the fucking point?

to live without overseers.

madashell's picture
madashell
Offline
Joined: 19-06-06
Oct 16 2004 12:50
Username wrote:
madashell wrote:
You said that whatever you have it will be equally crap and as a nihilist, you don't believe in an overarching purpose for life, right? So why bother? What is the fucking point?

to live without overseers.

But you said that there are no good alternatives, make your bloody mind up.

Edit: In fact, here's the quote

Username wrote:
That's because nihilists aren't in favor of anything 'cause they believe any replacement will be just as bad.

(my emphasis)

Augusto_Sandino
Offline
Joined: 21-02-04
Oct 16 2004 12:53
cantdocartwheels wrote:
Augusto_Sandino wrote:
cantdocartwheels wrote:
I'm not really sure its fair to say gramsci was ''sucked in'' by mussolini, but pssh thats a long boring debate.

john

Well Mussolini arose out of the socialist left, i think he had a fair few confused at first. It was Matteo or someone that he murdered wasnt it, and risked a mutiny in his own ranks from the members who were still socialistic in outlook.

Yeah he was a member of some socialist party but left in 1914-15.

Giacomo Matteotti, head of the main social democrat opposition party was the guy he murdered in 1924.

Just out of curiousity, when and in what context did gramsci write a favourable article about mussolini?

(mind you perhaps its really obvious and i'm not that well read so i missed it)

john

Yeah, when i was at school the year above us did Mussolini, i got some second hand introduction to it.

So Nihilists are like Anarcho-Individualists?

madashell's picture
madashell
Offline
Joined: 19-06-06
Oct 16 2004 12:54
Augusto_Sandino wrote:
GenerationTerrorist wrote:
kropotkin is generally regarded as the founder of anarchist communism.

Id give that prize to Proudhon first i think...

I thought Proudhon was an individualist confused

Augusto_Sandino
Offline
Joined: 21-02-04
Oct 16 2004 12:58

No, hes way before that... Hes not an self proclaimed anarchist communist, but he believed that in the absence of authority thats the social system that would arise. I think. He was the first person to willingly accept the term anarchist though...

Username
Offline
Joined: 15-09-04
Oct 16 2004 12:58
madashell wrote:
Username wrote:
[. . .] live without overseers.

But you said that there are no good alternatives, make your bloody mind up.

living without capitalism isn't necessarily the same thing as living with socialism.

madashell's picture
madashell
Offline
Joined: 19-06-06
Oct 16 2004 12:59

Oh and username, you probably get this a lot, but it can't be said enough:

Why are you on the net, if you're a primmo?

Username
Offline
Joined: 15-09-04
Oct 16 2004 12:59

Proudhon was a mutualist.

Augusto_Sandino
Offline
Joined: 21-02-04
Oct 16 2004 13:01
Username wrote:
Proudhon was a mutualist.

Thats the one, have a biscuit. But mutualism was also a key theory for later anarchist communists, so i reckon its fair to say he was in that vein.

Username
Offline
Joined: 15-09-04
Oct 16 2004 13:02
madashell wrote:
Oh and username, you probably get this a lot, but it can't be said enough:

Why are you on the net, if you're a primmo?

Because I'm tied to civilization at the moment. also, at this time, I can't afford to go camping and learn how to be a nomadic hunter/gatherer. want to finance my cause? send donations to get me out of debt and send me packing.

cantdocartwheels's picture
cantdocartwheels
Offline
Joined: 15-03-04
Oct 16 2004 13:02

proudhon was a worthless piece of shit

cantdocartwheels's picture
cantdocartwheels
Offline
Joined: 15-03-04
Oct 16 2004 13:05
Username wrote:
madashell wrote:
Oh and username, you probably get this a lot, but it can't be said enough:

Why are you on the net, if you're a primmo?

Because I'm tied to civilization at the moment. also, at this time, I can't afford to go camping and learn how to be a nomadic hunter/gatherer. want to finance my cause? send donations to get me out of debt and send me packing.

what the fuck?

seeing as you doin't beleive in revolution what are you waiting for, you don't believe in mobilising any sort of mass movement, so why are you not living somewhere in north wales or on bodmin moor with some other hippies?

john

Augusto_Sandino
Offline
Joined: 21-02-04
Oct 16 2004 13:05

Why do you say that?

That Proudhon is a worthless sack of shit, that is.

Username
Offline
Joined: 15-09-04
Oct 16 2004 13:07
cantdocartwheels wrote:
Username wrote:
madashell wrote:
Oh and username, you probably get this a lot, but it can't be said enough:

Why are you on the net, if you're a primmo?

Because I'm tied to civilization at the moment. also, at this time, I can't afford to go camping and learn how to be a nomadic hunter/gatherer. want to finance my cause? send donations to get me out of debt and send me packing.

what the fuck?

seeing as you doin't beleive in revolution what are you waiting for, you don't believe in mobilising any sort of mass movement, so why are you not living somewhere in north wales or on bodmin moor with some other hippies?

john

I wrote:
Because I'm tied to civilization at the moment. also, at this time, I can't afford to go camping and learn how to be a nomadic hunter/gatherer. want to finance my cause? send donations to get me out of debt and send me packing.

emphasis mine tongue

PS I wouldn't mind propagating these ideas to millions of people though.

PPS ken

cantdocartwheels's picture
cantdocartwheels
Offline
Joined: 15-03-04
Oct 16 2004 13:08
Augusto_Sandino wrote:
Why do you say that?

proudhons theories are overated and his work is pretty crude in comparsion to other bettert theorists. On top of that he was an extreme sexist and a rabid anti-semite.

I mean marx and bakunin had their idiosyncracies and flaws but proudhon was a nutter.

john

Augusto_Sandino
Offline
Joined: 21-02-04
Oct 16 2004 13:14

But surely its going to seem crude if hes the trailblazer as it were, he didnt exactly have much to base his work on. And anti-semitism was so widespread then it wasnt even noticed i think, Rousseau said that the basic rights of human beings were not applicable the jews. Doesent exactly make it "ok" though, i suppose.

cantdocartwheels's picture
cantdocartwheels
Offline
Joined: 15-03-04
Oct 16 2004 13:15
Username wrote:
cantdocartwheels wrote:
Username wrote:
madashell wrote:
Oh and username, you probably get this a lot, but it can't be said enough:

Why are you on the net, if you're a primmo?

Because I'm tied to civilization at the moment. also, at this time, I can't afford to go camping and learn how to be a nomadic hunter/gatherer. want to finance my cause? send donations to get me out of debt and send me packing.

what the fuck?

seeing as you doin't beleive in revolution what are you waiting for, you don't believe in mobilising any sort of mass movement, so why are you not living somewhere in north wales or on bodmin moor with some other hippies?

john

I wrote:
Because I'm tied to civilization at the moment. also, at this time, I can't afford to go camping and learn how to be a nomadic hunter/gatherer. want to finance my cause? send donations to get me out of debt and send me packing.

emphasis mine tongue

PS I wouldn't mind propagating these ideas to millions of people though.

pathetic

Augusto_Sandino
Offline
Joined: 21-02-04
Oct 16 2004 13:17

Nihilism seems pretty confusing for the Nihilists too...

Username
Offline
Joined: 15-09-04
Oct 16 2004 13:19
cantdocartwheels wrote:
Username wrote:
I wrote:
Because I'm tied to civilization at the moment. also, at this time, I can't afford to go camping and learn how to be a nomadic hunter/gatherer. want to finance my cause? send donations to get me out of debt and send me packing.

emphasis mine tongue

PS I wouldn't mind propagating these ideas to millions of people though.

pathetic

that's easy to say, and it brings me down at first; but ultimately, it means nothing to me.

PS If I'm pathetic because I'm poor, then there are billions like me, and there's no shame in that; and you shouldn't call me pathetic for that reason. Otherwise, like I said, I have no idea where you're coming from, but I have a feeling it's pretty petty anyway; and I think you should stop trying to bring me down, shithead.

cantdocartwheels's picture
cantdocartwheels
Offline
Joined: 15-03-04
Oct 16 2004 13:25
Augusto_Sandino wrote:
But surely its going to seem crude if hes the trailblazer as it were, he didnt exactly have much to base his work on. And anti-semitism was so widespread then it wasnt even noticed i think, Rousseau said that the basic rights of human beings were not applicable the jews. Doesent exactly make it "ok" though, i suppose.

I think proudhon said ''the jews are an evil race who should be driven back to asia and exterminated'' and he also worked out a mathematical forumla for the supposed superiority of men over women. So i think its fair to say his prejudice went a little beyond the general widespread casual racism prevalent in the era.

I mean marx was sometimes guilty of heavy racial stereotyping, bakunin was anti-semetic and kropotkin was a a bit sexist and he supported WW1, but none of them were bigots in the same way that proudon was. For proudhon sexism and racism were his caculated political positions.

Plus his theories don't really offer any real excuse for reading him, i mean the few good points you can take from proudhon are much better expressed by marx, bakunin and others. I dunno there just doesn't seem that much point in reading him really or considering him the ''founder of the anarchist movement'' or whatever.

john

cantdocartwheels's picture
cantdocartwheels
Offline
Joined: 15-03-04
Oct 16 2004 13:28
Username wrote:
cantdocartwheels wrote:
Username wrote:
I wrote:
Because I'm tied to civilization at the moment. also, at this time, I can't afford to go camping and learn how to be a nomadic hunter/gatherer. want to finance my cause? send donations to get me out of debt and send me packing.

emphasis mine tongue

PS I wouldn't mind propagating these ideas to millions of people though.

pathetic

that's easy to say, and it brings me down at first; but ultimately, it means nothing to me.

PS If I'm pathetic because I'm poor, then there are billions like me, and there's no shame in that; and you shouldn't call me pathetic for that reason. Otherwise, like I said, I have no idea where you're coming from, but I have a feeling it's pretty petty anyway; and I think you should stop trying to bring me down, shithead.

No your pathetic because if you primmos really beleived you could survive by re-wilding you'd be living in bodmin moor by now. serioulsy if you beleive the crap you spout, drop the house and all things in modern life and just LEAVE. And take your hippy friends with you.

john