this one has stumped me
Feb 9 2006 02:15
"A revolution is certainly the most authoritarian thing there is; it is the act whereby one part of the population imposes its will upon the other part by means of rifles, bayonets and cannon — authoritarian means, if such there be at all; and if the victorious party does not want to have fought in vain, it must maintain this rule by means of the terror which its arms inspire in the reactionists. Would the Paris Commune have lasted a single day if it had not made use of this authority of the armed people against the bourgeois?"
Feb 9 2006 10:40
#2
I think there's a reply to this in the anarchist FAQ. couldn't be arsed looking for it though. It's an engels qoute for anyone who does want to go looking for it.
Feb 9 2006 15:44
#3
JDMF wrote:
just a quick one: this quote starts from the wrong position assuming that the bourgeoise power is not based on violence, sanctions, control and authorianism - including rifles, bayonets and cannon.Second note: who gives a F - of course we are going to be restricting bosses and capitalists freedoms! Boo hoo, they are not allowing me to exploit them any more!
That's exactly what Engels is saying. He's arguing for the authority of the revolution. It is from the text "On Authority" who was directed against anti-authoritarian hippies in the 19th century.
Feb 9 2006 15:45
#4
fucking hippies were around already in 19th century! 
Feb 9 2006 16:58
#5
Hi
Quote:
A revolution is certainly the most authoritarian thing there is; it is the act whereby one part of the population imposes its will upon the other part by means of rifles, bayonets and cannon — authoritarian means, if such there be at all;
It’s obviously a typo, it should read “authoritative” not “authoritarian”.
Quote:
and if the victorious party does not want to have fought in vain, it must maintain this rule by means of the terror which its arms inspire in the reactionists.
This is a problem with bureaucratically planned economies and leftist notions of collectivisation.
Quote:
Would the Paris Commune have lasted a single day if it had not made use of this authority of the armed people against the bourgeois?
Authority is not authoritarian. I for one intend to show the bourgeois more mercy than they’ve ever shown me. Compassion is the prerogative of the victor.
Quote:
of course we are going to be restricting bosses and capitalists freedoms!
It is not their “freedom to exploit” which gives rise to the present order, but the working class’ own indolence in implementing an economy likely to keep us as well rewarded.
Love
LR
Feb 9 2006 17:21
#6
If I remember correctly, this particular quote by Engels was from a piece he wrote during the "duels with the Anarchists" where he employed a lot of wordplay to try and ridicule the position that you could be both a revolutionary and against all authority.
Which means that this quote is only relevant in the context of investigating the "squabbles" of that time.
That being said, I think we'd all agree that the former bourgeois should be suppressed in some manner by a "Red Terror", because everyone knows what will happen if they get back in power. And "White Terrors" aren't pretty.
Feb 9 2006 17:33
#7
I was right....
Anarchist FAQ H.4 Didn't Engels refute anarchism in his essay "On Authority"?
http://www.infoshop.org/faq/secH4.html
It's quite good.
just a quick one: this quote starts from the wrong position assuming that the bourgeoise power is not based on violence, sanctions, control and authorianism - including rifles, bayonets and cannon.
Second note: who gives a F - of course we are going to be restricting bosses and capitalists freedoms! Boo hoo, they are not allowing me to exploit them any more!