Poll - Are school-teachers in the working class?

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#62
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yelt
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Jul 25 2007 19:56

We have now got:

Poll - Are school-teachers in the working class

1) yes....................14, including 9 who also said 'stupid question'
2) no.......................4
3) it depends.........0
4) stupid question.......3, plus the 9 mentioned above
5) don't know........................0
6) none of the above...........0

lem - I didn't see your vote, no. Post a number from 1 to 6 and I'll include it if I do another count. A couple of people posted comments (pro-schoolteacher) without properly voting. The 'stupid question' crowd are also probably pro-schoolteacher. But they can speak for themselves if they want. As I said, I'm not going to interpret anyone's comment into a vote. You can, if you like. Or check my counting, or whatever.

Obviously there is massive support here for the view that school-teachers are in the working class.

Only three others apart from me (jack, sam, and jambo1) have said they think school-teachers are NOT in the working class. Good on you, maties. And I think there may come a time when you reconsider hanging out with the other types. This is such an important issue, given the huge importance of the institution called school. It just shows how separated many ultralefties are from most working class people, who tend to have more sense than them even when they've never come across an ultralefty leaflet in their lives. I'd wager that none of you three are from middle-class backgrounds, or have jobs involving bossing other people about. Respect!

I won't list the names of those who voted 'yes'. You're probably all much of a muchness.

yelt

#63
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Tacks's picture
Tacks
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Jul 25 2007 20:15
guydebordisdead wrote:
Jack wrote:
A post on revleft? confused
r-r-r-r-r-revleft on class-war wrote:
In the flesh, pretty fucking scary. They have an air of fundamentalism about them, and lots of them haven't a clue what they're saying, and just want to discuss the celebration plans for when Thatcher dies. A fair bunch have some good ideas, and from what I've seen of them, they are nearly all working class.
r-r-r-r-r-revleft on class-war wrote:
seemed all thye wanted to do was fight cops and smash Oxfam windows

I found the thread hilarious.

LINK NAO

#64
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Serge Forward's picture
Serge Forward
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Jul 25 2007 20:34
Quote:
I won't list the names of those who voted 'yes'. You're probably all much of a muchness.

What, you mean not total fucking mentalists?

#65
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meh
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Jul 25 2007 20:37

1 - They are working class.

They earn an average wage, have no political or economic power.

#66
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madashell's picture
madashell
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Jul 25 2007 20:52
Tacks wrote:
guydebordisdead wrote:
Jack wrote:
A post on revleft? confused
r-r-r-r-r-revleft on class-war wrote:
In the flesh, pretty fucking scary. They have an air of fundamentalism about them, and lots of them haven't a clue what they're saying, and just want to discuss the celebration plans for when Thatcher dies. A fair bunch have some good ideas, and from what I've seen of them, they are nearly all working class.
r-r-r-r-r-revleft on class-war wrote:
seemed all thye wanted to do was fight cops and smash Oxfam windows

I found the thread hilarious.

LINK NAO

http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=66251

Meh.

#67
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john
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Jul 25 2007 21:20

I vote:

1)

and

4)

#68
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MJ's picture
MJ
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Jul 25 2007 21:29

I vote:

1)

and

2)

#69
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playinghob
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Jul 25 2007 21:35

1 & 4. But does it vary if they choose to work in state, private or church schools?

#70
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thugarchist's picture
thugarchist
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Jul 25 2007 21:44
MJ wrote:
I vote:

1)

and

2)

Typical platformist theoretical cohesion there.

#71
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mitr
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Jul 25 2007 22:04
playinghob wrote:
But does it vary if they choose to work in state, private or church schools?

4

#72
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yelt
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Jul 25 2007 22:35

john - you've voted twice, both times for both 1 and 4. I've already counted your vote.

No cheating, or I'll throw the boardrubber at you and make you feel like shit for the rest of the day, and make you scared of my vicious sarcasm! Of course, we all know how all you lot cheat your arses off to help your employers crawl up the league tables.

mj - voting both yes and no - well you can just fuck off. The way you despise the asking of the question tells a lot. Unless of course you mistyped, in which case I withdraw the above unreservedly.

yelt

#73
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Joseph Kay's picture
Joseph Kay
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Jul 25 2007 22:37

different john - there's "John." and "john"

#74
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Refused's picture
Refused
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Jul 25 2007 22:38

To clarify; it's a stupid question because teachers can obviously be working class. I've never been a teacher.

Cock.

#75
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yelt
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Jul 25 2007 22:43

Thanks Joseph K. Sorry, john! You can see how I got confused though. Sorry to John too.

The count is now running at:

Poll - Are school-teachers in the working class?

1) yes...................16 , including 10 who also said 'stupid question'
2) no......................4
3) it depends.........0
4) stupid question.......3, plus the 10 mentioned above
5) don't know........................0
6) none of the above...........0

Anyone who wants to check these figures, please do.

yelt

#76
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jef costello
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Jul 25 2007 22:57
yelt wrote:
Only three others apart from me (jack, sam, and jambo1) have said they think school-teachers are NOT in the working class. Good on you, maties. And I think there may come a time when you reconsider hanging out with the other types. This is such an important issue, given the huge importance of the institution called school. It just shows how separated many ultralefties are from most working class people, who tend to have more sense than them even when they've never come across an ultralefty leaflet in their lives. I'd wager that none of you three are from middle-class backgrounds, or have jobs involving bossing other people about. Respect!

You've got Jack down to a tee. perhaps this is why he left SLSF.

#77
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yelt
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Jul 25 2007 23:00

What's SLSF?

yelt

#78
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yelt
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Jul 25 2007 23:05

joseph K:

Quote:
i'm not a teacher, never been a teacher, and i had some pretty shit experiences with some of them at school/college. they're still blatantly working class.

Working class people's experience of shit, of reflecting on shit, and of fighting against shit, is exactly where the tendency in society towards social revolution (sadly nowadays at an unprecedentedly low ebb) comes from.

yelt

#79
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jef costello
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Jul 25 2007 23:14
yelt wrote:
What's SLSF?

yelt

South London Solidarit Federation.

As far as I know they accept teachers.

#80
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MJ's picture
MJ
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Jul 25 2007 23:17
yelt wrote:
mj - voting both yes and no - well you can just fuck off. The way you despise the asking of the question tells a lot. Unless of course you mistyped, in which case I withdraw the above unreservedly.

Sorry, I had this confused with the thread about cops. Cops both are and are not working class.

School teachers are (often) working class and often (also) middle class.

You haven't answered my question about bank tellers though. Are bank tellers working class?

#81
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yelt
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Jul 25 2007 23:21

Something cannot both be and not be something. I've heard that cop-out before.

Most bank tellers are working class. Not bank employees whose job it is to con people to get into ever greater debt though, using all the old sales techniques.

yelt

#82
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Steven.
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Jul 25 2007 23:41
yelt wrote:
Only three others apart from me (jack, sam, and jambo1) have said they think school-teachers are NOT in the working class. Good on you, maties. And I think there may come a time when you reconsider hanging out with the other types.

You absolute tool - jack was ripping the piss out of you.

I eve

yelt wrote:
john - Funny you should mention Ken Loach. He made the superb 'Cathy Come Home', which rang huge numbers of bells with my family's experiences. I somehow doubt it rang any with yours.

hahahaha

And I even told you I was joking about being a teacher and you're still coming up will bullshit like this:

Quote:
All you know about a bell anyway would be that it's a message for you rather than for your prisoners. Don't want 'em squirming in their seats unless at your instigation, eh?
Quote:
Still less, I suspect, do you know about homelessness and getting crapped on by social security, social services, the medical cops, the official cops etc. Anyway all of the latter are in the same category as school-teachers. All of these cunts can and do ruin working class people's lives, and they get off on it too. That's part of their 'job'.

The medical cops? So who are they then?

Quote:
John's going on about an Openly Classist member/peripheral. I'm sure it must mean something. Care to enlighten me? I'm all ears, John. Why not take the podium and talk down to me. Imagine I'm a schoolkid or sommat? Bet you can't do it without sarcasm though!

Why are you pretending you don't know? You're blatantly mates with anderson back in the day, or his son.

Quote:
Lastly, Guydebordisdead, although I put 'male' as 'gender' here, the reason I did was because I never bother taking care to fill in those things, I just grab the first item I pull down. I'm actually a woman, so not a 'fun guy' at all.

No you're not, you're a man, what a hilarious lie!

#83
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yelt
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Jul 25 2007 23:59

Why do you bother, john? If jack said he didn't think school-teachers were in the working class, when actually he does, that makes me a fool, does it? I told you that when counting up votes I wasn't interpreting anything anyone had said.

You're getting my take wrong. I don't think I ever met Andy Anderson or his son.

I don't think the middle class is the 'main' enemy in the way he does. I think the ruling class is the main enemy, but I share his hatred for the middle strata and view a large proportion of them as petty commandants for the rulers. Sure, there is more common ground between me and them than there is between me and you.

Read some of what I wrote in my 'personal' info and you may get a better grip. No point in your slagging me off without understanding where I'm coming from - or, wait a minute, is there? See in particular the refs to the ancient anarchist image of capitalist society as a pyramid, and to Marx on centralisation and concentration. They both had it right.

Suss that the most powerful person outside of the family and acting as a cop for capital - as a powerful enemy - that a young working class person will often ever meet is a headmaster, and the richest person most working class people ever meet on a one-to-one basis, at any time in their life, will be a medic of some description or other.

If you are convinced that I am a man, well OK I can be one in your mind - is that OK? You must have a warped mind though.

me:

Quote:
Funny you should mention Ken Loach. He made the superb 'Cathy Come Home', which rang huge numbers of bells with my family's experiences. I somehow doubt it rang any with yours.

you:

Quote:
hahahaha

Are you calling me a liar, John? I'm bloody not. What are you saying by typing 'hahahaha'?

yelt

#84
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madashell
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Jul 26 2007 01:24
yelt wrote:
No cheating, or I'll throw the boardrubber at you and make you feel like shit for the rest of the day, and make you scared of my vicious sarcasm! Of course, we all know how all you lot cheat your arses off to help your employers crawl up the league tables.

Must try harder.

#85
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syndicalistcat
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Jul 26 2007 01:53

3

they might be in a "contradictory class location". MJ's vote suggests this.

#86
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pgh2a
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Jul 26 2007 02:35

1 & 4. And if picket lines count for anything I saw some teachers fuck up some scabs at my first picket line experience ever as an impressionable youth. (My mom took me as she was out on strike). Someone please explain to her how she isn't working class. She's got a boss who orders her around, no teachers aide (which could make teachers supervisors of other workers in some situations - but still working class IMHO), gets moved around to different classrooms because of a shit union, and has always had set wages, not varying by the amount of profit she brings in, either through grants to public school or when she worked private school years ago (which she quit because of the pampered rich kids whose parents would try to buy them grades).

#87
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lem
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Jul 26 2007 05:10

poor level of debate imo :z

Quote:
Something cannot both be and not be something. I've heard that cop-out before

i think it's "over the top" to believe that job description determines class. pick an example - of a "worker" having a job description that does not match their power or income or even security. so it can't be job description! so what then magic piece of paper that everyone you want to call a teacher possesses, determines class?

just that you want to call them middle class?

eta: i mean that you can't say that every teacher is middle class because they don't share anything between them. or what, what do they share? power? every single individual you want to call a teacher? on account of what? what is determining their power and hence their class? out of interest.

if you were to define who is a teacher, i would be surprised if they ALL had enough power/etc. to be middle class :-/

#88
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Jul 26 2007 05:26

yelt - I voted 1 & 4, and no, I've never been a teacher. I have done social work with intellectually disabled youth, and some with non-disabled youth, inside schools during school hours though. Oh, and I've worked at an after school care program, looking after young kids while their parents are at work.

What does that make me then? A double-soft cop? A soft security guard?

Lastly, I'd like to echo this comment:

Refused wrote:
To clarify; it's a stupid question because teachers can obviously be working class.

and this one

Refused wrote:
Cock.
#89
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lem
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Jul 26 2007 05:29

admin - abuse deleted, continue and you'll get a ban

#90
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Khawaga
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Jul 26 2007 10:08

Yelt, I think it would help if you could offer up a definition or your analysis of class. And, I'd like to qualify my earlier vote; I voted 4, it's a stupid fucking question coz teachers are obviously working class.

What the fuck is up with these boards now anyway, all these questions about who belongs to the working class or not, like it's some fucking category that can be counted and measured. If only the revolution would be won through arithmetics... just like the Americans tried to win the Nam.

#91
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Steven.'s picture
Steven.
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Jul 26 2007 10:18
Khawaga wrote:
What the fuck is up with these boards now anyway, all these questions about who belongs to the working class or not, like it's some fucking category that can be counted and measured. If only the revolution would be won through arithmetics... just like the Americans tried to win the Nam.

I think we're just humouring yelt.