Private tenant organising...
Oct 18 2005 11:06
i want to get some sort of private tenant's defence group off the ground in haringey, because i reckon that housing (along with debt) is the most important issue for us (working class people) in london - haringey already has a decent defend council housing group, that is not too dominated by trot scum. the fact is rent so steep, and most landlords are such cunts, that there is a real need for us to organise as private tenants...
i'm going to call a public meeting through HSG to see how much interest there is in the subject, we already have a leaflet on housing benefit, that needs updating, and we have someone who is a citizen's advice bureau worker who is up for getting involved, so we've got the ability to kick something off
any other ideas?
Oct 18 2005 13:28
#2
This is something that i am also very interested in.
I have been thinking about possible routes for organising around this for a while now, but have not come up with anything. With streets so fragmented with respect to landlords, it seems very difficult to think of a stress point that we could apply pressure to [i.e./ an old-school large tenement block with a single landlord could be attacked through a renk strike against a common enemy]
Oct 18 2005 14:10
#3
can't see it being any easier than, say, organising bunch of self employed people. Very diverse circumstances, and most likely all you can do is some kind of advice service...
So what are the concrete things you had in mind?
Oct 18 2005 14:21
#4
Hmmm but if you just look at it on a local level, I think it still theoretically makes sense. Even though neighbours might have different landlords, the only power the landlords ultimately have is getting bailiffs to evict. If other people around the house would protect it/keep an eye on it (would generally involve any physical fight) it could stretch out the amount of time you could hold out on rent payments to shitty landlords... Especially as a lot of landlords (anyone got %age figures?) are quite small ones, and so losses hit them hard, and quickly.
Oct 18 2005 15:31
#5
JDMF wrote:
can't see it being any easier than, say, organising bunch of self employed people. Very diverse circumstances, and most likely all you can do is some kind of advice service...So what are the concrete things you had in mind?
well, see what other people were up for - at first bring out a pamphlet with full range of advice, on benefits, landlord reponsibilities and rights, tenant's responsebilities and rights etc - and depending on how far people are up for stuff, try and get people to think about self defence against landlords and bailiffs and rent strikes etc
Oct 18 2005 15:48
#6
A lot of places are managed by lettings agents - and they'll have loads of flats in an area, so that might be a way to get past some of the fragmentation if you could get people with the same property manager working together (even if the landlord was different).
I thought about having local websites/noticeboards (bit like the ones Nick Durie posted), where people could post up how much rent they pay/what their place is like. If these could be built up into high ranking, high traffic sties, it'd put pressure on rents - first of all subletters and other people overcharging, later leading to reductions in rents when renters had enough knowledge about what to expect not to pay over certain levels.
Also could set up landlordwatch.something with name and shame stuff - photos of shit conditions and repairs, horror stories, that kind of thing. There are similar sites for parking tickets that are massive, I think something specific yet general like that might be a good way to start.
I've been thinking for a while it'd be good to produce a general workplace rights/workplace organising pamphlet, then ones on housing and other issues. Practical information and advice, with links to more stuff - like CAB and here. Good to see other people are as well.
Oct 18 2005 18:02
#7
Kalabine, are you on the community organising list as well? It might be useful to your campaign. Also, apart from HSG, I'd imagine Islington IWCA being able to cooperate "over the fence" in terms of sharing experiences, maybe providing you with some of their previous leaflets (if they did any) on these issues and the like.
I could go on and expand but I'm afraid I don't have enough time.
Oct 18 2005 21:27
#8
gentle revolutionary wrote:
Kalabine, are you on the community organising list as well? It might be useful to your campaign. Also, apart from HSG, I'd imagine Islington IWCA being able to cooperate "over the fence" in terms of sharing experiences, maybe providing you with some of their previous leaflets (if they did any) on these issues and the like.I could go on and expand but I'm afraid I don't have enough time.
hmm, maybe (going by what you catch and pingtao are saying) we should get some stuff together first and then go to the public in our boroughs
cheers for mentioning the CA list - i own it 
Oct 18 2005 21:38
#9
Quote:
I thought about having local websites/noticeboards (bit like the ones Nick Durie posted), where people could post up how much rent they pay/what their place is like.
it would be difficult to focus this to have effect on the crap landlords without increasing harassment of tenants by those shit landlords maybe? especially if they are not landlords with loads of tenants a more general landlordwatch is probably safer.
Quote:
the only power the landlords ultimately have is getting bailiffs to evict. If other people around the house would protect it/keep an eye on it (would generally involve any physical fight) it could stretch out the amount of time you could hold out on rent payments to shitty landlords..
problem is encouraging people to hold onto rent payments with the real shit landlords is asking them to get their heads kicked in. landlords also have the power to make your life miserable albeit unofficially and thats how most people are made to leave long before the baliffs ever get involved. the real shit landlords don't take people to court cause it costs money.
so basically encoraging people to watch out for each other but also being well sorted out about what your rights are can help you be more confident in challenging stuff. but really the best thing is avoiding shit landlords in the first place and so again i'd go with the landlordwatch site for different areas and also stuff about likely rents in areas and what sort of deposit could give people knowledge about what they should be paying. i think that could really be useful. more possibly than replicating welfare rights type leaflets that already exist (although thats good too )
Oct 18 2005 22:23
#10
Quote:
but really the best thing is avoiding shit landlords in the first place and so again i'd go with the landlordwatch site for different areas and also stuff about likely rents in areas and what sort of deposit could give people knowledge about what they should be paying.
With a national landlordwatch site, you could do very effective stuff after people move out - like have a property blacklist (google maps allows for stuff like that). The main thing is avoiding people getting in to really shit housing in the first place as you point out. There's obviously massive pressure on housing in most areas, but it might be possible to freeze out the very worst places, and most importantly bring lots of pressure in general.
I reckon public rent/deposit/agency-fees information could help people a lot - it'd certainly help me! Estate agency is based on providing as little information as possible - showing as few properties as possible - having inaccurate information in the window or newspaper ads, barefaced lying when you go to see places. If something can counter that it'd do a lot, and if it can be publicised well it'd quickly build up a depth and breadth of information that simply isn't available now.
One big problem with a website as opposed to leaflets, is a website is unlikely to reach the people who'll most likely end up in the worst housing - people who've just come into the country or have really unstable housing situations already. Trying to do both and actually link them up would help with that though, and as you point out, there's not that much point in simply duplicating CAB leaflets.
Oct 18 2005 22:41
#11
yeah, i really do think a website would be a good idea and it could be linked from loads of others like NCADC for example would maybe link it so it could reach people in more vulnerable housing situations. your right about it not necessarily being accessible to people but in the stuff i've done with people in unstable housing for various reasons a lot of people are sorted about accessing information online now libraries or whatever. doesn't mean not using leaflets but maybe targeting where leaflets are put?
anyway, i'm shit at doing websites. but i'd help with housing/benefit/legal information or finding out other stuff where i can if its useful to anyone. i think it would be good to get this off the ground.
Oct 18 2005 22:49
#12
hmmm - chat at the bootsale maybe?
as for doing leaflets, i agree that duplicating existing info is pointless, however i was thinking that our own leaflets will be freer to discuss less legalistic options, and to encourage cooperation and solidarity in a way that official ones can't
but yeah creating a national resource is a good idea as well, although as catch says it will not reach those most in need, the answer to that is to create the website etc - but then on a local level oganise meetings/surgeries and leaflet distrobution (posting through letterboxes, handing out in the high street etc 
at nick) and just see what happens
Oct 18 2005 22:56
#13
kalabine wrote:
but yeah creating a national resource is a good idea as well, although as catch says it will not reach those most in need, the answer to that is to create the website etc - but then on a local level oganise meetings/surgeries and leaflet distrobution (posting through letterboxes, handing out in the high street etc
I'd like to help when you get to the second part of the plan.
Oct 18 2005 23:35
#14
All sounds good to me. I know pingtiao can't make the fayre, but we've been talking about this before in more general terms. It's the sort of thing the C-A list/meeting ought to be covering as well.
Oct 18 2005 23:39
#15
An idea that has come of its time. The advantage of organizing against a private landlord is that you often know where they live and you can go round THEIR house, and if necessary trash it and kick their teeth in. 
there was a scum landlord in West Glasgow, Mr Kohli (he also owns Kohli travel - a right little petit bourgeois) who owned over 2000 properties. He never bothered with courts, and tended to let to students and other assorted useless bastards. He had a small army of guys and not a few heavies working for him to rig fire safety checks, change locks, do people in etc. It was well know where he lived.
Oct 19 2005 00:56
#16
we did a thing in southampton against a dodgy landlord, picketed his house, leafleted his neighbours, got him in the local press, and defended some tenants against bailiffs...
it can be done
Oct 19 2005 10:22
#17
I'm happy to write some legal stuff- my housemates and I took our last landlord to court for taking our £1500 damage deposit and using it to do up the bathroom. It took us a year, but we went through the small claims court and got the money back.
It was a very satisfying, if ultimately non-radical and bourgeois victory!
Oct 19 2005 11:34
#18
this landlord watch thing seems a good idea, but in my exeperience it's hard sometimes to see who is at fault especially when, like in london, a lot of property is let through agents.
I've had a whole load of shit this year with our flat, went without heating and hot water for 2 months in the arse end of winter, dodgy boiler fitted which flooded the place, dodgy plumbing in flat above (owned by same) which also flooded the place, etc etc..
however, when i challenge the lanlord on it they blame the agent, when i challenge the agent they blame the landlord, nothing sticks to anything
I think things like people's experiences of getting ripped off like keeping deposits once you move out, failing to do things required by law like annual gas boiler checks and stuff would be good, if it was all out there it may presurrise them to do more stuff (but also to probably put rents up to pay for the things they should be doing anyway)
national website with bits for lanlords and agents would be great (and also indivduals within agents who make life a misery for tenants)
Oct 19 2005 18:39
#19
Yeah would have to include estate agents - I've had real landlord/estate agent trouble this year as well (although amazingly not quite as bad as yours).
Oct 21 2005 10:01
#20
Websites, FFS, there are soe problems that cannot be solved with the wave of a website. You anarchists set up websites quicker than trots set up leages for the formation of a new international!
I agree with Nick that the time for this has come. With the massive increases in house proces, more and more people are unable to get onto the 'housing ladder' of mortgages, and are turning to renting.
On the one hand, this makes life easier for the landlors, as they can raise proces due to incrreased demand, and also play us off against each other. On the other hand, it makes the issue of rents a much bigger concern, and to a wider number of people. If we can organise, in increasing numbers, then we will be able to impose some 'collective solutions' onto the landlords.
I think the path to that, is practical organising around legal issues; something tat gets people talking, and used to acting a bit more bolshy. A whle ago some of us in a shared house had a problem with the landlord, and the neighbours lent us 'Letting for Dummies' and we were able to wrte a letter to the landlord indicating that we knew the law much better than he did. As well as this, of couse, was the fact that we knew that our neghbours would help us out... and we also didn't physically fear the landlord at all.
I also think targeting a particular letting agency would be a good idea.
kalabine P0WnS the Community action!!!!!11!!!!111 8)
Oct 21 2005 10:14
#21
ah so information on a website isn't any good, but information read in a book is 
how would you know which particular agency to target unless you have a way of collecting information on what they've been up to, and are able to challenge them with the facts rather than just conjecncture or just some general notion that agencies are crap?
Oct 21 2005 10:19
#22
lazio - nobody is suggesting a website would be the be all and end all of this - but it is an excellent idea - however i want to organise a public meeting in haringey for private tenants and see how much interest there is in kicking off some of the other things discussed, practical action.
Oct 21 2005 10:22
#23
oisleep wrote:
how would you know which particular agency to target
Because that's the one that the people who have organised together want to target, due to their immediate needs; not the one that 'anarchist housing activists' have decided needs to be 'targeting'. Go on -- off and join SHAC with you!
But my real point wasn't that websites were such a bad thing, just that, too often, setting up an email list or website is the only thing that gets done.
Edit: and of course I'll do my best to work with people to make sure that isn't the case and yadda yadda see you at the bookfair to talk more.
Oct 21 2005 10:37
#24
Lazlo_Woodbine wrote:
But my real point wasn't that websites were such a bad thing, just that, too often, setting up an email list or website is the only thing that gets done.
Edit: and of course I'll do my best to work with people to make sure that isn't the case and yadda yadda see you at the bookfair to talk more.
i think we're in agreement really, lets not try and argue over nothing that's what our little belfast comrade is for
Oct 21 2005 10:58
#25
Come on -- can't we argue about the primitivist policy on the housing problem?
Oct 21 2005 20:35
#26
Lazlo_Woodbine wrote:
Come on -- can't we argue about the primitivist policy on the housing problem?
or the primitivist methods of posting images?
Lazlo, I agree that just setting up (yet another) website with nothing else would be shit. In the case of housing though, a lot of the problems are due to lack of information, and a lot of people look for housing information on the net.
Oct 21 2005 21:09
#27
and a website would likely attract a lot of people. ultimately, a website accessed by many people and created by many people to (cause its their input we need to know who the shit landlords are) is not shit even on its own. its a tool, we can use other tools too.
and the idea that accessing websites is still somehow elitist, i'm not sure about anymore. in my job trawling round peoples houses in some of the financially poorest areas in the country, shitloads of people have a pc and ntl. it takes more priority than paying the rent sometimes.. plus theres libraries to access free computors. i think we need to shift our ideas forward on this cause i think the argument that many people can't access computers or don't think that the internet as a source of info is a first choice is not as true as it used to be now.
anyway, rant over. all forms of disseminating info in whatever way is accessible are grand. 
Oct 23 2005 19:44
#28
Lazlo_Woodbine wrote:
With the massive increases in house proces, more and more people are unable to get onto the 'housing ladder' of mortgages, and are turning to renting.On the one hand, this makes life easier for the landlors, as they can raise proces due to incrreased demand, and also play us off against each other. On the other hand, it makes the issue of rents a much bigger concern, and to a wider number of people. If we can organise, in increasing numbers, then we will be able to impose some 'collective solutions' onto the landlords.
I think the path to that, is practical organising around legal issues; something tat gets people talking, and used to acting a bit more bolshy.
Well this was the most important part of my post. Any more ideas on these strategic aspects?
Oct 23 2005 22:29
#29
Lazlo_Woodbine wrote:
I think the path to that, is practical organising around legal issues; something tat gets people talking, and used to acting a bit more bolshy.
Well this was the most important part of my post. Any more ideas on these strategic aspects?
A lot of housing legislation is ignored by landlords ("damp prejudicial to health", safety certificates, ventilation) - all that kind of thing. Same with estate agents misleading about properties.
Having information on that and how to combat it (and links to the CAB) could do a fair bit by itself. The same way as Health and Safety can be a useful thing to organise around at work. These things, if tackled successfully, also provide real benefits very quickly that ought to make people more confident and create a base to build on.
Agree with your general analysis about a likely increase in people renting - even shared ownership schemes leave people renting the majority of their property (and paying service charges etc.)
Oct 31 2005 06:19
#30
Quote:
Private Tenants Know Your Rights!TaysideTenats.Org as been given a handy document for all tenants that want to know some of their rights when they let from a private landlord.
Please feel free to take a copy. To Read "Living In A Home Let By A Private Landlord" - Please Click Here
From TaysideTenants.org (www.taysidetenants.org)
Something like that would obviously be good. Has it been tried anywhere else?
(My landlord's a lovely bloke though
)