"From each according to his faculties..."
Mar 8 2006 16:51
"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs!" - Karl Marx,
"From each according to his faculties; to each according to his needs" - Mikhail Bakunin
Both mean pretty much exactly the same thing, but in what writing did Bakunin make that statement? I am also unable to find the context. I've searched a lot of his writings, and found nothing.
It seems somewhat compromising for either of them to use eachothers quote in this way. And although both held the principal based on political conclusions, im curious as to who actually has the rights to this quote.
Essentially, im asking who said it first, and in which of Bakunins works does the latter quote feature?
any information would be great. Thanks!
Mar 8 2006 17:05
#2
Quote:
I've never heard of him saying that anywhere...
Hmm, several quote sites pitch that he said it.
Mar 9 2006 10:10
#3
I wouldn't be surprised if he did. Marx was a big influence on Bakunin. Though Bakunin was bright enough to point out the crap bits of Marx's thought and propose alternative.
Mar 9 2006 10:44
#4
Additives Free wrote:
It seems somewhat compromising for either of them to use eachothers quote in this way. And although both held the principal based on political conclusions, im curious as to who actually has the rights to this quote.
Why?
Mar 9 2006 10:49
#5
Not exactly a reliable source, but I have it lying around at work for some reason - Demanding the Impossible claims Bakunin said "from each according to ability, to each according to work done" 'cause he was a collectivist.
Obviously, I don't have the most faith in Marshall, so can anyone confirm this?
Mar 9 2006 15:51
#6
eoin_K wrote:
It seems somewhat compromising for either of them to use eachothers quote in this way. And although both held the principal based on political conclusions, im curious as to who actually has the rights to this quote
Why does it seem somewhat compromising? or why am I so curious.
a, Because they were bitter rivals. I know that I personally would avoid using my opponents 'coined' terms to define my own beliefs, even if they were remarkably similar in places.
b, Simply because I like to know this kind of trivia. Obviously it wouldn't really matter who actually 'invented' this quote...
Mar 9 2006 15:53
#7
Additives Free wrote:
a, Because they were bitter rivals. I know that I personally would avoid using my opponents 'coined' terms to define my own beliefs, even if they were remarkably similar in places.
They were still on good terms though. Bakunin was hired to do the Russian translation of Capital. IIRC he didn't bother to do it though...
Mar 9 2006 15:55
#8
He had Nechaev threaten to murder the guy who paid him for it when he had the audacity to ask Bakunin where the finished product was.
Mar 9 2006 15:56
#9
Jack wrote:
He had Nechaev threaten to murder the guy who paid him for it when he had the audacity to ask Bakunin where the finished product was.
8) 
Mar 9 2006 16:00
#10
Jack wrote:
He had Nechaev threaten to murder the guy who paid him for it when he had the audacity to ask Bakunin where the finished product was.
Jack you do realise that was just a slur. 
Mar 9 2006 16:02
#11
No, it wasn't.
The way Marx used it in the IWMA split was shite, but to pretend it didn't happen is just beyond bizare.
Mar 10 2006 10:49
#12
What does "each accoriding to his ability" mean? Cheers.
Mar 10 2006 10:59
#13
Everyone contributes to society based on their abilities, what they can do well, how much they're able to work.
Mar 10 2006 12:33
#14
"Ability" includes willingness in any meaningful communist sense. Not in terms of you contribute the most you possibly can by working as much as you are physically able!
Mar 10 2006 12:48
#15
er yea, wrote that badly - when I said able I didn't mean how much work they could physically possibly do! 
Mar 10 2006 14:12
#16
Jack wrote:
No, it wasn't.The way Marx used it in the IWMA split was shite, but to pretend it didn't happen is just beyond bizare.
Yeah it was. Nechayev did it but Bakunin didn't have him do it. In Bakunin letter to Nechayev, which is available as a pamphlet, Bakunin chastises Nechayev quite heavily for doing that and many other things.
It's one of the most bizarre pieces of Bakunin's writings I've ever seen. I think its safe to say that Bakunin had an irrational fondness of Nechayev. Take from that what you will.
Mar 10 2006 14:18
#17
Oh lordy, it looks like the best group on our islands sells the pamphlet and all. Go on Jack send us 2 pound and well send it out to you. 
http://flag.blackened.net/revolt/once/wsm_books.html
Michael Bakunin
BAKUNIN ON VIOLENCE
Bakunin?s letter to Sergei Nechaev (nihilist terrorist par excellence) where he expresses his faith in humanity & in the process rejects Nechaev?s views on the subject.
Mar 10 2006 14:33
#18
georgestapleton wrote:
Yeah it was. Nechayev did it but Bakunin didn't have him do it.
Plausable deniability, eh? Even if he didn't know about those specific, it's not as if he didn't know Nechayev was a nutter.
I mean, I'm hardly defending the shitty way Marx used it in the International, but to act like Bakunin had no responsibility for it is just stupid.
Quote:
In Bakunin letter to Nechayev, which is available as a pamphlet, Bakunin chastises Nechayev quite heavily for doing that and many other things.
Was this letter before or after he got kicked out of the IWMA?
Mar 10 2006 14:36
#19
georgestapleton wrote:
Oh lordy, it looks like the best group on our islands sells the pamphlet and all.
I thought Organise! only sold Crossing the Border and the Wee Book of Belfast Anarchism? 
Mar 10 2006 16:31
#20
Jack wrote:
georgestapleton wrote:
Yeah it was. Nechayev did it but Bakunin didn't have him do it.Plausable deniability, eh? Even if he didn't know about those specific, it's not as if he didn't know Nechayev was a nutter.
I mean, I'm hardly defending the shitty way Marx used it in the International, but to act like Bakunin had no responsibility for it is just stupid.
Well I'd hardly hold John. responsible for you, even though he must have noticed the way you carry on. 
Quote:
Quote:
In Bakunin letter to Nechayev, which is available as a pamphlet, Bakunin chastises Nechayev quite heavily for doing that and many other things.Was this letter before or after he got kicked out of the IWMA?
Before, its not really a political letter. It's more a personal letter. He talks more about how disgracefully Nechayev acted towards Herzen's niece when they were staying with her than the Capital affair. Also the Capital affair had an extremely negative impact on Bakunin beyond the expulsion. Nechayev took the down payment that the publishers had given to Bakunin and ran off with it leaving Bakunin impoverished and in a great deal of debt. Which was how he stayed from then until his debt.
Jack wrote:
georgestapleton wrote:
Oh lordy, it looks like the best group on our islands sells the pamphlet and all.I thought Organise! only sold Crossing the Border and the Wee Book of Belfast Anarchism?
Touché
Mar 10 2006 16:45
#21
georgestapleton wrote:
Well I'd hardly hold John. responsible for you, even though he must have noticed the way you carry on.
If I was known to go around threatening people and went around bragging about how I'd killed people, and was defended by John., and then I sent a letter saying I'd murder someone because of some slight to John. then yea, I think people would feel there was some amount of responsibility.
Theoretical and Tactical Unity, comrade. 
Quote:
Before, its not really a political letter. It's more a personal letter. He talks more about how disgracefully Nechayev acted towards Herzen's niece when they were staying with her than the Capital affair. Also the Capital affair had an extremely negative impact on Bakunin beyond the expulsion. Nechayev took the down payment that the publishers had given to Bakunin and ran off with it leaving Bakunin impoverished and in a great deal of debt. Which was how he stayed from then until his debt.
Fair enough. I still don't think Bakunin comes out of the situation smelling of roses - certainly, his association with Nechayev was far, far worse than Marx using the affair against Bakunin.
Quote:
Touché
8)
Mar 10 2006 16:52
#22
I'm not saying that Bakunin should have hung around with Nechayev, but as I said earlier "I think its safe to say that Bakunin had an irrational fondness of Nechayev. Take from that what you will." I mean I don't think that the Bakunin Nechayev partnership was driven by a political common identity, but was driven by something else.
If you want to get your head around the affair I'd stringle recomend reading the letter. It's a bit like reading someones diary, but it is illuminating. It's probably on the internet somewhere.
Mar 10 2006 16:55
#23
I already looked, but couldn't. 
Mar 10 2006 17:24
#24
It's titled 'Bakunin on Violence'
Mar 19 2006 11:41
#25
Who was threatening who here?
Here we have a madman irrationally obsessed to the point of total insanity with anarchism who buttonholes Bakunin after several attempts to smear him as a police spy and then says that he knows people now who will kill for him!
Marx started all this crap. He was was nutcase who couldn't stand the heat in the kitchen. Don't blame Bakunin for some shite that the lunar nut case Karl Marx did please.
Mar 21 2006 07:48
#26
Please, say that Marx was Jack the Ripper again while you're at it, that made me giggle
Mar 21 2006 12:35
#27
I'm with madashell on this one! Early class struggle eastenders, "ohh an ee said to err," "ooo well i neva!"
I've never heard of him saying that anywhere...