Refuge as a Solution for Imperialism

You're obviously a city person. Really good, fertile soil is black. I tell you this from personal experience. Adding "you silly cunt" really makes you look real smart.

No it's dark brown, it ain't black and regardless of it's colour, the black on the black flag has fuck all to do with soil.

What does that have to do with anything?

Look, when you see properly fertilized soil you say "this is some good black soil." Hence the peasants... Right?

Anyway, this is unimportant. If the black flag really is a flag of mourning, than damn, we need a new one.

I wouldn't know what sort of dull shit peasants talk about soil.

Workers, working class. Taking pride in being a worker over seeing it as a purely negative thing.

Jose Bove thinks that farmers/peasants provide the moral backbone of the nation.

Ah, didn't catch the page number, I see.

Not soil, mud

See. Peasants are the backbone of anarcho-syndicalism as well.

I am with Revol 100% on this one. All forms of patriotism are poisonous, but 'workers' patriotism' is the most dangerous of all.

Friends of Durruti were pretty clear about the need to confront the capitalist state and not become part of it. They were far less clear about the international context of the Spanish events. That was their weak side, but it didn't define them, it wasn't the most essential thing about them.

And our left-Marxist friends perform a proletarian intervention. What do we get from you, comrade - more goulash?

this is exactly it. you're trying to argue that in 'redneck' areas, patriotism is popular among the working class. woop de fucking doo. talking to them on "their" level, eh? you patronising shitbag.

as far as i'm concerned, there are PLENTY of crap opinions working class people have. from racism to sexism and all other forms of bigotry. shall i start using racial slurs to refer to people as that's what some working class people do and that's the only way to engage with "them"? if anything, we should be FIGHTING reactionary views within the working class, because it's not going to strenghten us as a collective group in any fucking way at all.

and anyway, even if that argument did make sense it's retarded. by trying to 'engage' with using patriotism, you're alienating plenty of other working class people who don't agree with that at all (and often find it hateful or intimidating). workers from other countries aren't going to be able to engage with an "ENGLAND!" mentality. and i imagine plenty of muslims would just consider it to be some British Nationalist Party shit (which let's face it, it is) and either find it offensive or just not relate to it in the slightest.

Don't put words in my mouth. I never brought up "rednecks" - read the thread. These "people" are my neighbors and friends. And I respect their outlook enough to take it seriously rather than immediately dismissing it. In my community there is also a strain of racism - I ridicule and criticize these people. Say anything you like, call me a fascist or third positionist or a cunt, but do not call me patronizing. What is patronizing is people like you who obviously think you have everything figured out and you can run rough-shod over things near and dear to so many people, including myself.

Look -- I love MY country. I'm not a Marxist trying on populist clothes to get a few cheap points popularity-wise. It's disgusting that you'd think that.

I think you will find that non-reactionary Muslim types identify very strongly as being English. It shows your racism that you think automatically other ethnicities cannot come together culturally.

I think a quote from a great Irishman is in order here.

Patriotism and Labour

LOL this cunt has just quoted James 'plastic paddy' Connolly! That fucking pircj had a hard on for irish nationalism and helped lead the working class into a fucking blood sacrifice.

You might as well quote fucking Mein Kampf to me than that fucking prick Connolly!

p.s. Connolly was scottish, born in Edinburgh, but like plenty of other fucwkits embraced a more Oirish than the irish mentality, rather like alot of peabrained wankers in the US that are forever claiming Irish ancestory!

wrong fuckwit!

The issue is alot more complicated than the likes of you would ever be capable of grasping but even on a simple level muslims tend to identify as "British" rather than English, rather like how blacks might identify as american ahead of localist shit like 'southern' and 'texan' etc.

word, revol.

but also, the main point is that Muslims, along with many other ethnic groups in Britain (and america), ave their OWN cultures customs and traditions. Just as there are many different white British cultures customs and traditions within Britain. I don't relate and talk to, say, Sikhs on a level of "well i can relate because they're british too". I relate and talk to them on a level as people and recognise that they've had various different influences than I have but, oddly enough, as normal people they still understand where I'm coming from.

I think it's most hilarious to have this "CULTURAL PRESERVATION AND PRIDE" mentality when you're American of all things, too. America is COMPLETELY made up of various cultures and ideas, and will continue to change and adapt as other groups come into the country or leave. Because cultures ALWAYS take on outside influences, it's never stood still. And it's a good job it did because Britain would be a shithole without all the various cultural influences we've had over the years (part in part thanks to colonialism and whatnot, it must be said).

also Zarafuckwits claim that negatives don't priduce positives is bullshit, negation and affirmation are bound up in each other, every refusal affirms and every affirmation negates.

oh get a fucking opinion or shut the fuck up.

Nietzsche's critique of morality is excellent, but he's an individualist muppet with little or no understanding of or interest in class society and its abolition. While his zarathustran ubermensch stuff might have helped him deal with his best mate running off with the woman he loved, it represents a retreat into individualist romantic idealism from the more materialist basis to the notions of master/slave morality. slave morality is not overcome through simple acts of will, but by acting collectively on the anger and resentment wage slavery fosters, thus constituting ourselves as a creative, affirmative force.

If anything posing some romantic notion of blood and soil against the cosmopolitan, 'unpatriotic' bourgeoisie is slave morality par excellence, taking the morality of the master, labeling it 'bad' and then inverting it.

revol, this is a no flaming forum.

yes it's also a discussion forum, if j.rogue has nothing to add to the issue she should stfu.

which can be said without flaming, and simultaneously providing people with an excuse to dodge the discussion

big bad revolutionaries that can't deal with a few swear words, anyway I'm sure you'll understand that swearing is a large part of my culture, connecting me to my roots, a small glimmer of resistance to a language that was foisted upon my people by the bastard English!

I think that contradicts your entire argument.
Devrim

y'know sometimes i think you could be the funniest, driest humoured fucker on these forums and then it dawns on me that you're just a left communist.

Revol, I have posted on this thread, but even if I hadn't, I can still ask you to stop flaming. Stop being so defensive.

sorry you have, it was just so blah and inane I forgot about it.

Way to be mature.