The Armed Revolution

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Username
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Sep 29 2004 09:03

Well, China is kind of mandatory and enforced by law, but that just tells you how bad the crowding has been over there for the last twenty years. I hope we can make a difference before it gets that bad elsewhere.

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cantdocartwheels
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Sep 29 2004 13:13
Wayne wrote:
Fucking hell, there is something to be said for primitivism! If we lived in a primitivist (non)society then the life expectancy would be about forty at the most. Which means username would hopefully be dead in just fourteen years :)

40?!

more like 25

john

WeTheYouth
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Sep 29 2004 19:54
Username wrote:
Well, China is kind of mandatory and enforced by law, but that just tells you how bad the crowding has been over there for the last twenty years. I hope we can make a difference before it gets that bad elsewhere.

Overcrowding is only a problem when resources are not shared equally.

ffaker
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Sep 29 2004 21:53
Username wrote:
Well, China is kind of mandatory and enforced by law...

Not it isn't. That's a common miscomception. In China one child families are *encouraged* in the cities, but not enforced. Rural families have even more leway.

Off topic, but there we go.

Wayne
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Sep 29 2004 22:45
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If the solar system was destroyed by nuclear waste being fired into space, and the people responsible were primitivists, you'd have to laugh at the irony.

Aye but they'd get a great write up in Green Anarchist and annual support appeals in Do or Die. Fuck me, if Harold Shipman said he liked trees half the eco movement would write him letters.

Anyway, there's loads of nuclear waste so they'll have to build loads of rockets capable of securely passing through the earth's atmosphere, and building even one will take ages given they'll be working with an abandoned pushchair, a stolen supermarket trolley and some rotten wood Joely skipped. So we probably don't need to worry about it just now.

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Steven.
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Sep 29 2004 23:45

So seeing as that idea (flying into the sun) is crap, does that mean you'll drop your entire politics?

(NB if you haven't realised why it's impractical it's cos rockets fail - a lot. A rocket full of nuclear waste blowing up could kill millions/tens of millions, fuck who knows billions of people depending on how much was in there)

Username
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Sep 30 2004 08:34

I'll wait until NASA tells me it's crap instead of listening to a bunch of inane communists. No, I won't drop my politics. What are you going to do? Nuclear waste isn't just primitivists' problem. It's everybody's problem.

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JDMF
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Sep 30 2004 10:29

Username, it's quite clear that you have very little common ground with people on this board.

The word "anarchist" is the source of confusion here because for some reason the primitivists think that they are part of anarchist movement because their view of freedom (which is essentially the same than someone holding your legs on a balcony stopping you from dropping, but then would let you drop in the name of "freedom"). In reality primitivism in it's american form have very little to do with anarchism.

I'm sure someone has looked into this but for me it doesn't come as a suprise that american primitivists are very authoritarian and anti-working class, and seem to have more common with the red neck militias oin their understanding of what anarchism means.

I know 3 "primitivists" personally, well they wouldn't call themselves such, but are more like anti-civs, and they have sound class politics as well (sounds like a contradiction in terms, but it doesn't seem to stop them, and hey, we all have our contradictions), regular working class kids, look like skateboarders (not crusties wayne!), working in shit jobs - and i doubt they would agree with things Username has said here.

And this is a green anarchist talking as well (well, red, black, green anarchist to be more precice smile )

WeTheYouth
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Sep 30 2004 11:02

A primitivist revolution is about likely as the moon falling from space and landing in my back garden eek . Why give up something which makes your life easier and more bearable, if you go and ask any worker about this, they would laugh you all the way back to your tree house twisted

redyred
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Sep 30 2004 14:18
George'sBush wrote:
So seeing as that idea (flying into the sun) is crap, does that mean you'll drop your entire politics?

(NB if you haven't realised why it's impractical it's cos rockets fail - a lot. A rocket full of nuclear waste blowing up could kill millions/tens of millions, fuck who knows billions of people depending on how much was in there)

Well, seeing as he wants massive population reduction, it actually IS in line with his politics.

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Steven.
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Sep 30 2004 14:29
Username wrote:
I'll wait until NASA tells me it's crap instead of listening to a bunch of inane communists.

Er, well I'm willing to bet pretty much everything I have that I know a helluva lot more about physics + aeronautics than you - it doesn't take a lot of digging to find out that A: rocket technology is nowhere near good enough to be able to transport large amounts of material off the planet, and B: it's decades (at least!) off being reliable (remember Challenger, you fool?)

Now Mr. Genius, do you deny any of this?

If you do want to deny it, a few minutes digging on the Net should verify it. But I spose most people as moronic as you don't actually want their hare-brained ideas challenged. So you can happily keep talking shit your whole life.

Quote:
No, I won't drop my politics. What are you going to do? Nuclear waste isn't just primitivists' problem. It's everybody's problem.

Er yeah but I'm happy for it to be dealt with with technology, which is perfectly possible. You're the one who wants it dealt with without technology. And it has to be looked after for thousands of years.

My god I seriously find it hard to believe anyone can be this fucking stupid. And why why why do you call yourself an anarchist? You're not, you're a cock. Pick your own name for your wacko ideas to smear alright?

Fucking americans (wink)

roll eyes

desertR
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Sep 30 2004 16:15

Would it not be possible to build secure storage for the filth of this society and leave it? Then never make the same mistakes again.

Mike Harman
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Sep 30 2004 16:40

If you left it somewhere how would you know it was secure?

Could fall apart in ten years/hundred years. At least monitoring, preferably with something more efficient than telescopes made from cardboard tubes.

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Steven.
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Sep 30 2004 17:16
desertR wrote:
Would it not be possible to build secure storage for the filth of this society and leave it? Then never make the same mistakes again.

No.

Even burying it say deep under a mountain would be useless in the long term cos of techtonic plate movements and the like. It would have to be monitored continuously, for what is it 30,000 years? Something like that.

Username
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Sep 30 2004 22:12
redyred wrote:
George'sBush wrote:
So seeing as that idea (flying into the sun) is crap, does that mean you'll drop your entire politics?

(NB if you haven't realised why it's impractical it's cos rockets fail - a lot. A rocket full of nuclear waste blowing up could kill millions/tens of millions, fuck who knows billions of people depending on how much was in there)

Well, seeing as he wants massive population reduction, it actually IS in line with his politics.

actually, killing "millions/tens of millions, fuck who knows billions of people. . ." is not "in line with [my] politics." please pay attention. i might actually be right, you might be wrong, and i'm likely to die from an auto/work-related accident, anyday!

What do y'all think of Insurgent Desire and Green Anarchist? God, y'all talk a lot of shit, calling Americans ignorant when, in your own backyard, you have two of the types of anarchists you say are native only to america! calling me a fucking moron. the only difference between a primitivist and someone who's against civilization is that the latter just doesn't want to call him/herself a primy because some primies are into dumb things i guess and a lot of people like you guys will marginalize him/her. way to go, "anarchists". that's solidarity!

god, who were the geniuses who made this nuclear shit? i guess we're going to have to be somewhat settled for another 30,000 years if our ecosystem even holds out that long.

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JDMF
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Oct 1 2004 08:12
Username wrote:
way to go, "anarchists". that's solidarity!

you need some kind of common ground for solidarity. Just the label "anarchist" doesn't get you far if vast majority of anarchists can't figure out why you call yourself anarchists.

Similarly "anarcho"-capitalists (another good US invention) don't enjoy much solidarity from anarchists.

Username
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Oct 1 2004 11:11

i'm saying, you would emotionally support a green anarchist who's against civilization or not, but as soon as that green anarchist calls him/herself a primitivist, then you don't understand his/her politics; and he/she isn't an anarchist anymore much like the anarcho-capitalists. i'm tired of all of you guys'/gals' bitching and whining. if someone's against the state, then that's fine with me if he/she wants to call him/herself an anarchist even if she/he is for socialism, capitalism, or nationalism. angry that's the common ground: anti-statism.

how do you know these things are US inventions?

redyred
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Oct 1 2004 11:17
Username wrote:
i'm saying, you would emotionally support a green anarchist who's against civilization or not, but as soon as that green anarchist calls him/herself a primitivist, then you don't understand his/her politics; and he/she isn't an anarchist anymore much like the anarcho-capitalists. i'm tired of all of you guys'/gals' bitching and whining. if someone's against the state, then that's fine with me if he/she wants to call him/herself an anarchist even if she/he is for socialism, capitalism, or nationalism. angry that's the common ground: anti-statism.

how do you know these things are US inventions?

Oh you've gone all boring now. Go on, tell us the one about how we're all going to live in the woods one day again.

Username
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Oct 1 2004 11:42
redyred wrote:
Oh you've gone all boring now. Go on, tell us the one about how we're all going to live in the woods one day again.

frivolous, inane motherfuckers. the web is full of frivolous, inane motherfuckers who can't take shit seriously sometimes.

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Steven.
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Oct 1 2004 11:42
Username wrote:
if someone's against the state, then that's fine with me if he/she wants to call him/herself an anarchist even if she/he is for socialism, capitalism, or nationalism. angry that's the common ground: anti-statism.

There you go I think we've stumbled on the nub of the problem:

you're a penis.

Username
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Oct 1 2004 11:50
George'sBush wrote:
There you go I think we've stumbled on the nub of the problem:

you're a penis.

this is a dis? if you have nothing to say, go to some other thread. this isn't about who's who and what this means to you. you don't have to save face or erase me. stop wasting everyone's time. do something else if you have nothing to contribute. calling someone a penis says absolutely nothing. if you have nothing intelligent to say, just wait. thoughts may come to you. if not, then who cares?

Wayne
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Oct 1 2004 12:22

I thought Bush's response was eloquent and salient. A dis? You reckon? Apllied to you, penis is almost a compliment.

Quote:

if someone's against the state, then that's fine with me if he/she wants to call him/herself an anarchist even if she/he is for socialism, capitalism, or nationalism. that's the common ground: anti-statism.

You don't deserve to be taken seriously because you're a looper. Your common ground with nationalists is anti-statism? Freak.

But if you want a serious debate...

I despise anybody who supports a social upheaval that goes against everything I want from life and involves the suffering of people I care about. Anybody who wants to destroy human advancements essential to people's standards of living is my class enemy. As an environmentalist I want nuclear waste managed for the long term future. As a communist I want mass production of food and energy, I don't want my old Gran or others like her to die of hypothermia this winter. As a libertarian I want to use technology to enhance people's freedom where ever possiblie- I want my wheel chair using friend to have his independence and the most high-tech wheel chair we can build. I want my friends who are HIV positive to have the longest and healthiest lives possible and the very best drugs available to make this happen. When I have children I don't want them or the woman I have them with to die at birth. Until then I want johnnies or microgyn 50 so I can stop getting people pregnant embarrassed At a personal level I want ingredients to cook with from all over the world and not to have to spend hours every day collecting food, making fires, etc. And I want my triple bypass in a few years as well.

I have the same disgust for primitivism that I do for fascism. Neither should be given any platform.

Now fuck off and don't ever post here again. You smell and you depress me.

Username
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Oct 1 2004 13:02
Wayne wrote:
I thought Bush's response was eloquent and salient. A dis? You reckon? Apllied to you, penis is almost a compliment.

Your common ground with nationalists is anti-statism? Freak.

More bullshit, why can't we see eye to eye for once?

Wayne wrote:
I despise anybody who supports a social upheaval that goes against everything I want from life and involves the suffering of people I care about.

How do I advocate the suffering of people? How do I advocate social upheaval?

Wayne wrote:
Anybody who wants to destroy human advancements

to see this as an advancement is a misnomer.

Wayne wrote:
As a communist I want mass production

this mass production is what's wrong with capitalism and socialism. industrialism requires its subjects, yes, subjects because industrialists subject the earth and all of its inhabitants, requires all of its subjects to overcompensate just to keep it afloat.

Chris Wilson wrote:
It is an inherently expansionist system. . . . It cannot function as a self-containing organism - for it to continue to increase or sustain productive output, it must perpetually extend the scope of its resource consumption, eventually converting all things into commodities that must be purchased to enjoy. People then become dependent upon this exploitative system to provide them with the resources required for survival.

Wayne wrote:
I don't want my old Gran or others like her to die of hypothermia this winter.

We are going to have neither communism nor primitivism this winter.

Wayne wrote:
As a libertarian I want to use technology to enhance people's freedom where ever possiblie- I want my wheel chair using friend to have his independence

I want to enhance freedom, too. You aren't special. Primitivists are libertarians. Just because we want to avoid the use of technology doesn't mean we're the opposites of libertarians. if you use technology, then you have division of labor, and i wouldn't say you could enhance freedom by using specialization.

Wayne wrote:
and the most high-tech wheel chair we can build. I want my friends who are HIV positive to have the longest and healthiest lives possible and the very best drugs available to make this happen. When I have children I don't want them or the woman I have them with to die at birth. Until then I want johnnies or microgyn 50 so I can stop getting people pregnant embarrassed

There are probably reasonable alternatives to all of this stuff except for people with HIV. that's over my head.

Wayne wrote:
At a personal level I want ingredients to cook with from all over the world and not to have to spend hours every day collecting food, making fires, etc.

i don't know if that's the healthiest thing to do. for one thing, the system that allows us to do that destroys the earth.

Wayne wrote:
And I want my triple bypass in a few years as well.

we wouldn't need such things if we would rewild.

Wayne wrote:
I have the same disgust for primitivism that I do for fascism.

so what?

Wayne wrote:
Neither should be given any platform.

what a fascist thing to say

Wayne wrote:
Now fuck off and don't ever post here again. You smell and you depress me.

more fascism, ever heard of not feeding the trolls? not that i am one, but i thought i wiped my feet before i came in. i can go all day, buddy. I smell great.

Don't be depressed. I'm not here to depress you. I'm here 'cause I have nowhere else to go. Whatever depresses you about my being here, just look at it as though it doesn't affect you. Whatever I post, you're still the great person whom you were yesterday and will be for the rest of your life.

Username
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Oct 1 2004 13:14
revol68 wrote:
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we wouldn't need such things if we would rewild.

how many world cups is that now wayne? can i keep this one? grin

"world cups"?

Username
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Oct 1 2004 14:14

this is what i found http://enrager.net/forums/search.php?mode=results and http://www.google.com/search?lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=world%20cups

those really don't tell me what you meant. you didn't even say what to search (the internet or the board)

of course a search isn't oppressive, asshole. why are you "anarchists" such assholes?

Username
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Oct 1 2004 14:33

y'all haven't convinced me of anything, so you're celebrating too early. this isn't about some idiotic game of wiping out opposing viewpoints. you're hopeless. you really take too much pride in these cyber stomping grounds.

Wayne
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Oct 1 2004 14:57

grin Aye, you can keep this one Revol! (There's a wee sport called football (soccer) that a few people like and there's a tournament called the World Cup. Brazil were allowed to keep the old trophy 'cos they won it three times. We have now won arguments with primmos on enrager so many times that unfortunately we have to keep them. Are you any good at housework?)

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More bullshit

Okay, how are nationalists anti-statist?

Quote:
why can't we see eye to eye for once?

Because you are beneath me.

Your understanding of communism is about as sophisticated as Joe Stalin's.

HIV's also above your head? Oh well, fuck em. Things will get better when we rewild and stop producing condoms. Tit. And on the subject of contraception, what you got in mind? The rhythm method? It reduces population rates in Ireland grin

Still no response on disability issues... er... fuck em too, they'll probably die at birth.

Quote:
Wayne wrote:

"I don't want my old Gran or others like her to die of hypothermia this winter. "

We are going to have neither communism nor primitivism this winter.

Your defence of your politics is basically that they're not going to happen grin Any time we do stop using heating loads of people like my gran are going to freeze to death over the Scottish winter, aren't they? Ever wonder why primitivism is something of a youthful movement?

Given an island like the UK could support 50,000 people living primitively at the most, what do you plan for the rest of us?

Are you still considering firing nuclear waste at the sun? grin * laughs like fuck while typing*

Quote:
Wayne wrote:

"I have the same disgust for primitivism that I do for fascism.

Neither should be given any platform."

what a fascist thing to say

Is it fascist to physically oppose people whose intentions could lead to the mass deaths of people of a certain colour or religion? No. So why is it fascist to potentially oppose physically people whose intentions could lead to the mass deaths of people because they are women who give birth, because of their age, health, disability, HIV status, proximity to 'rewilded' nuclear dumps, etc ?

Quote:
Don't be depressed.

You depress me because I care a bit about anarchism and how it is perceived. People like you are an embarassment. If you called yourself a hoojie yamoochie tree man of the new right (at least as accurate as anarchist) I would just laugh and feel slightly sorry for you.

Quote:
I'm here 'cause I have nowhere else to go.

Can't the Salvation Army look after you or something?

Username
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Oct 1 2004 15:02

are you saying you own this message board/domain name/etc? everybody on earth can't rewild at the moment 'cause there isn't enough planet for everyone to "run wild" as a redneck saying goes, but we rewild by switching our diets to the paleolithic diet, which is expensive if you pay for it. also, we rewild by attending primitive survivalist gatherings to learn how to survive in the wild. we learn things like hunting and foraging. we learn how to cut open animals and tan their hides with their brains. we eat roadkill, etc.

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Steven.
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Oct 1 2004 15:08
Username wrote:
are you saying you own this message board/domain name/etc? everybody on earth can't rewild at the moment 'cause there isn't enough planet for everyone to "run wild" as a redneck saying goes, but we rewild by switching our diets to the paleolithic diet, which is expensive if you pay for it. also, we rewild by attending primitive survivalist gatherings to learn how to survive in the wild. we learn things like hunting and foraging. we learn how to cut open animals and tan their hides with their brains. we eat roadkill, etc.

Ah I bet this is a spoof. This is hilarious... (er if it wasn't done in the name of anarchism that is...)

Wayne
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Oct 1 2004 15:11

Shite, we've been had! I feel a right twat. Who's behind Username? That cannot be for real.

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what about wayne what will he do in ur primmie utopia he's vegan.

Shut up! Edit that post Revol, I'm trying to appear a bit class struggle here!