The FARC-EP: Red-headed stepchild of 1st world revolutionaries. Good, bad or just keepin it real?

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jonnyflash
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Jan 17 2007 08:38
The FARC-EP: Red-headed stepchild of 1st world revolutionaries. Good, bad or just keepin it real?

Narco-geurillas? Once-principled gang? The people in arms? Indigenous killers? Church blower-uppers? Child soldier recruiters? Too black, too strong? Cold war relics? Terrorists? Would-be dictators?

A keen awareness of the fact that *every* healthy and strong revolutionary tendency is not monolithic, that under the banner of every movement u see working-class militants and their supporters. u see anarchists, feminists, leninist, trots, nationalists, maoists, of all shades and mixtures, all there because that movement is the best vehicle available for them within which to advance the struggle at that time. Revs can't wait for perfect, ideologically homogenous and pure movements to spring from nowhere, we are on a timeline.

This thread is for discussion of the FARC-EP, the largest and strongest leftist cultural-politico-military insurgent group on the continent.
Let's talk about things we've heard, impressions, strengths, weaknesses, etc. I myself was a member of an international solidarity committee in support of FARC-EP until the Canadian gov added FARC to their terrorist list, constraining activists to slagging the Uribe gov. (too easy to be fun). Uribe's Columbia recieves the 2nd largest annual wad of cash, (2nd to Israel). The US kicks that kind of cloin for a reason.

I'll be happy to answer any questions I'm able to. Let's get to the bottom of this subject, a very relevant one in today's quickly changing Americas.

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Steven.'s picture
Steven.
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Jan 17 2007 11:27

Before we start, do you consider yourself an anarchist, a Leninist, or what?

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OliverTwister
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Jan 17 2007 18:05
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Let's talk about things we've heard, impressions, strengths, weaknesses, etc.

Hmm... I'll start with Colombians I've met who had to flee after a family member was chopped into itty bitty pieces by the FARC.

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knightrose
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Jan 17 2007 18:09
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Before we start, do you consider yourself an anarchist, a Leninist, or what?

A third worldist, imho. One whose critical faculties become diluted in direct proportion to the distance the issue he is considering is from home. Also imbued with a huge quantity of moralising guilt.

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petey
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Jan 17 2007 18:22
jonnyflash wrote:
Revs can't wait for perfect, ideologically homogenous and pure movements to spring from nowhere

so (i ask for the nth time) does that mean that "we" have to tolerate or stay silent in the name of solidarity in the face of this:

OT wrote:
Colombians I've met who had to flee after a family member was chopped into itty bitty pieces by the FARC.

or peruvians by shining path, or nepalese by (what are they called), or...

you get the idea.

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Serge Forward's picture
Serge Forward
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Jan 17 2007 18:52

Jonny, ever thought to discuss the matter with actual anarchists on the ground in Colombia? Or would they be classed as fascists in the pay of the US state department?

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jonnyflash
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Jan 17 2007 23:21

Although some of the responses were misposts intended for a separate post entitled : What is Jonny, anarchist, leninist, or what? ,
or another popular if ficticious thread entitled : Jonny has lots of money to travel to Columbia to speak with anarchists",

we did get one good one from Oliver Twister.
Tell me more, Oliver. Are you close to these folks? what area/social strata r they from? I'm not looking to dismiss what you are saying, but am interested. In Canada we have many political and war refugees.

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pgh2a
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Jan 17 2007 23:23
OliverTwister wrote:
Quote:
Let's talk about things we've heard, impressions, strengths, weaknesses, etc.

Hmm... I'll start with Colombians I've met who had to flee after a family member was chopped into itty bitty pieces by the FARC.

Damn. Haven't you heard? That's the "People's Justice"!!

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jonnyflash
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Jan 17 2007 23:23

I'm needing to bone up on my FARC for a debate I have with a anti-militarist activist in 2 weeks, so let's stay topical, please n thankyou.

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jonnyflash
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Jan 17 2007 23:26

Thanks, but I'm looking for convos I WONT come across in debate with Heritage Front members. I said t o p i c a l,not tropical. hehe. Let's have a real discussion.

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Serge Forward
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Jan 17 2007 23:37
jonnyflash wrote:
Jonny has lots of money to travel to Columbia to speak with anarchists

Er, no.... I meant why don't you just email Amigos de la AIT in Colombia, or one of the other anarchist groups there? It costs nowt and you might find out a thing or two.

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Serge Forward's picture
Serge Forward
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Jan 17 2007 23:43
jonnyflash wrote:
Thanks, but I'm looking for convos I WONT come across in debate with Heritage Front members. I said t o p i c a l,not tropical. hehe. Let's have a real discussion.

Are you implying that anyone who claims the FARC do this sort of shit is some kind of fascist?

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Tojiah
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Jan 17 2007 23:45
jonnyflash wrote:
Uribe's Columbia recieves the 2nd largest annual wad of cash, (2nd to Israel). The US kicks that kind of cloin for a reason.

I'm going out on a whim here, but do you happen to hold a positive view of the various "left-wing" Palestinian organizations, e.g., Fatah, PFLP, DFLP, etc (pretty much all members of the PLO)? What's your view of Hamas and Hezbollah?

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violencia.prole...
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Jan 17 2007 23:49
OliverTwister wrote:
Quote:
Let's talk about things we've heard, impressions, strengths, weaknesses, etc.

Hmm... I'll start with Colombians I've met who had to flee after a family member was chopped into itty bitty pieces by the FARC.

Could you please provide some documentation for this claim? I'm not defending the FARC as a human rights paradise, but its very easy to slander such an organization. The FARC is constantly misrepresented and lied about. Bombs are set of by the Colombian state in their name and random violence is attributed to them. It's easy for claims of violence to be associated with them, thats all I'm saying.

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Serge Forward's picture
Serge Forward
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Jan 18 2007 00:06
violencia.proletariat wrote:
I'm not defending the FARC as a human rights paradise, but its very easy to slander such an organization. The FARC is constantly misrepresented and lied about. Bombs are set of by the Colombian state in their name and random violence is attributed to them. It's easy for claims of violence to be associated with them, thats all I'm saying.

This may well be the case. However, our Jonny seems to be saying that anyone who alleges FARC attrocities are the kind of people to be found at a meeting of the fascist Heritage Front.

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OliverTwister
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Jan 18 2007 00:21

Documentation for my claim...

Do you want to meet them?

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jonnyflash
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Jan 18 2007 01:34

I hope knee-jerk anti-communist responses don't end up supplanting this dialogue. My hope is dimming. Read the subject line of this post very carefully. Ask yourself if your question or comment relates.

I'm not asking for documentation of Oliver's source, just more info.

The FARC is the main reason that the Venezuelan coup of April 2002 wasn't supported by more than a warship, planes, advice, cash and moral support from the US. US forces, or a US proxy like Columbia would have a 2 front war with dim prospects of maintaining supply lines. So there's FARC as deterrents to direct external military support.

I guess the reason I'm interested in them is because they passed all of the traps into which other movements fell (though perhaps the Columbian oligarchy made it easier by resoundingly sealing off the electoral option via 4000 assassinations of a FARC electoral effort.

I share with Violencia protesta a healthy appreciation for the effectiveness of anti-rev black propaganda. It's common, as everyone from the Italian Red Brigades, to the FLQ, to the urban protester is well aware of. Hell, I've read that the cops even do drive-bys dressed like bloods or crips to break truces.
Black propaganda is so effective because it really smears the name of the presumed perpetrators, and forces them to deny and spend lots of energy convincing allies it wasnt them.

For the FARC, quitting the struggle means quick death. They have nowhere to go but up. Commander Manuel "sureshot" Marulanda is a strategist of the calibre of the FMLN's Schafik Handal, or Hezbollah's Hassan Nasrallah, neccessarily adept at assymetrical warfare against adversaries equipped with state-of-the-art weaponry and vehicles.

On the gender tip, the FARC has a good female representation among it's 40,000 strong combatants. Each FARC unit is also artistically active, writing and performing songs, skits and dances at cultural events.

There has been alot of talk about FARC's use of propane cyllinders as mortars. They sometimes veer far off their targets and hit civilians.
Any thoughts on that anyone?

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violencia.prole...
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Jan 18 2007 01:39

Heres a documentary made by FARC about a girl going through basic training. An interesting watch even if you don't support the group.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xv9rs_guerrillera

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jason
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Jan 18 2007 01:41
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There has been alot of talk about FARC's use of propane cyllinders as mortars. They sometimes veer far off their targets and hit civilians.
Any thoughts on that anyone?

Now that's what I call assymetric warfare.

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jonnyflash
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Jan 18 2007 03:03

Wow, violencia prole just made my day. Loved that movie. Thanks for the link.
It shows the humanity of the movement. Now I'm glad I started this thread.

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jonnyflash
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Jan 18 2007 03:07

wow, the loincloth jungle paradise scene will make the primmies pro-FARC.
(Discursive may not watch the film).

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Jan 18 2007 07:21
jonnyflash wrote:
For the FARC, quitting the struggle means quick death. They have nowhere to go but up. Commander Manuel "sureshot" Marulanda is a strategist of the calibre of the FMLN's Schafik Handal, or Hezbollah's Hassan Nasrallah, neccessarily adept at assymetrical warfare against adversaries equipped with state-of-the-art weaponry and vehicles.

I guess that answers my question. Hassan Nasrallah wouldn't know a gunshot wound from a hole in the ground: he's a religious scholar and a politician, and knows diddly-squat about the practice of warfare.

But sure, he's a leader in the third-world, he's charismatic, and he's fighting Israel, which is almost as good as fighting the US, so why not idolize him? I heard his Islamic faith allows him to fly over to Mecca every weekend to do his grocery shopping. Also, he can shoot sacred lasers from his eyes when in rightious anger. roll eyes

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Devrim
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Jan 18 2007 09:00

My feelings on this is that I am amazed at how people as Knightrose said:

Knightrose wrote:
...whose critical faculties become diluted in direct proportion to the distance the issue he is considering is from home.

I mean, give these people a picture of a pretty girl with a red flag (though a green one seems to substitute quite well in the Middle East these days), and a gun and they end up supporting the most viciously anti-working class organisations.
In Turkey the leftist who talk loudest about the 'revolutionary wave sweeping across Latin America' are the ones, who, in my opinion hate the working class in Turkey the most.
Devrim

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Jan 18 2007 09:11
violencia.proletariat wrote:
Heres a documentary made by FARC about a girl going through basic training. An interesting watch even if you don't support the group.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xv9rs_guerrillera

very interesting vid.

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pingtiao
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Jan 18 2007 09:22
Devrim wrote:
My feelings on this is that I am amazed at how people as Knightrose said:
Knightrose wrote:
...whose critical faculties become diluted in direct proportion to the distance the issue he is considering is from home.

I mean, give these people a picture of a pretty girl with a red flag (though a green one seems to substitute quite well in the Middle East these days), and a gun and they end up supporting the most viciously anti-working class organisations.
In Turkey the leftist who talk loudest about the 'revolutionary wave sweeping across Latin America' are the ones, who, in my opinion hate the working class in Turkey the most.
Devrim

Agreed, as I agree with other comrades who have said similar things above.

Jonny, I am an admin of this board and have not yet been in an argument with you. However, this and other threads you have posted on indicate that you do not share the ground common to other posters here, that is a libertarian communist (or anarchist) perspective.

Inherent to this political perspective is a politics that seeks to articulate and extend the autonomous interests of the working class, and which does not lionise the interests of wannabe ruling strata.

You do not seem to be an anarchist, so I am wondering what you are doing here. I am also wondering whether you should be banned, like other posters who try to use this site to push anti workig class political lines.

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Steven.
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Jan 18 2007 10:02
pingtiao wrote:
You do not seem to be an anarchist, so I am wondering what you are doing here. I am also wondering whether you should be banned, like other posters who try to use this site to push anti workig class political lines.

Not to mention your claims to have "friends" in the IRA roll eyes

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petey
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Jan 18 2007 16:32
jonnyflash wrote:
knee-jerk anti-communist responses

wall

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jonnyflash
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Jan 18 2007 17:08
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pingtiao wrote:
You do not seem to be an anarchist, so I am wondering what you are doing here. I am also wondering whether you should be banned, like other posters who try to use this site to push anti workig class political lines.

Hey, if you don't find me sufficiently ideologically pure to merit discussion with, thanks for being honest about it. Such honesty regarding such an orientation is refreshing. I guess my banning shows activists such as violencia proletaria and also the others who haven't felt comfortable to take part in this exchange due to the ultra-macho, nit-picking, red-baiting environment created and unchallenged by certain elements, know that they'd best go elsewhere for the kind of free-wheeling ferment of revolutionary ideas I seek to benefit from.
anyone actually interested in discussing the FARC-EP r any of my other posts can contact me at jon.flash@gmail.com.

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Joseph Kay's picture
Joseph Kay
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Jan 18 2007 18:01
jonnyflash wrote:
red-baiting environment created and unchallenged by certain elements

everyone who's responded to you is a communist, as far as i'm aware, so that doesn't make any sense. i am however rather proud to help create an atmosphere intolerant of leninist-nationalist murderers' sympathisers red n black star

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petey
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Jan 18 2007 19:24
Joseph K. wrote:
everyone who's responded to you is a communist, as far as i'm aware

oi!
beardiest

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Joseph Kay's picture
Joseph Kay
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Jan 18 2007 20:57

that's kropotkin, he's a communist. obviously we all have our favoured prefixes wink