The FARC-EP: Red-headed stepchild of 1st world revolutionaries. Good, bad or just keepin it real?

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madashell's picture
madashell
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Apr 4 2007 12:43
Joseph K. wrote:
revol68 wrote:
jonnyflash wrote:
Class analysis would mean understanding how cool it is that North Korea is still autonomous and existing given the current global landscape.

That's an all time classic?

Can we have a libcom quotes section?

i know, it's genius! 'class analysis means ignoring the situation of the working class in favour of third-worldist nationalism.' autocritique never had it so good grin

jonnyflash wrote:
Go on and compare the existence of autonomous states to the plight of children in proxy states

So North Korean workers' conditions versus South Korean hey? where would you rather live jonny? of course this misses the point that nobody here is arguing for liberal capitalism, just pointing out state capitalism is no better for workers (and often worse, with a tendency to brutally suppression of workers in the name of 'the workers').

Quite. I've not been following this thread for a while, has anybody mentioned the actions of the "workers' state" in Hungary circa 1956 yet?

And if I get him to say that it was an attempt at a fascist coup, do I win some kind of wingnut bingo?

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Joseph Kay
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Apr 4 2007 12:47
madashell wrote:
Quite. I've not been following this thread for a while, has anybody mentioned the actions of the "workers' state" in Hungary circa 1956 yet?

nah don't think we'd got round to that yet, care to do the honours? tongue

madashell wrote:
And if I get him to say that it was an attempt at a fascist coup, do I win some kind of wingnut bingo?

not afaik, but we should definitely invent it cool

jonnyflash
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Jun 26 2007 22:12

The only thing I know about Hungary is that a couple of my (apolitical) Vancouver friends came from there. Regarding North Korea, if everyone reading this post right now coalesced, organized and managed to liberate any chunk of land anywhere, let alone a chunk with the geo-strategic importance of Korea, the international response to the federation/communal council/ tribe? / regime would be the same as the response North Korea receives. Regardless of the specific characteristics of the liberatory ideology in play on that chunk of land, you would see a united multi-national invasion that might kill a quarter of your population. , various embargoes including US dollar and Euro embargoes which would cripple your energy, agricultural and other sectors (hunger, anyone?). The global corporate media would make up nasty stuff about you. The big foundations would commission syncophant intellectuals to write detailed and lengthy treatises on exactly why you suck, should be hated by everyone, and how you have actually brought all this hardship upon yourselves. Various disruptions, various anti-you campaigns would proliferate. It wouldn't really matter what you believe, or the historical context and cultural factors behind why you believe it. All that would matter is: would it be possible for the global elite to weaken, smear and destablize you enough to reclaim that chunk of land, and reincorporate it back into the games of speculative capital and private property schemes?
Moreover, would people calling themselves leftists be harnessed to do the ideological grunt work neccessary to completely isolate your chunk of land from the global left?

In short, everything said and done to the North Korean people would be said and done to your movement/people.

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daniel
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Jun 27 2007 03:17

Oh shut it you national socialist. "The struggle against fascism begins with the struggle against bolshevism" whether the bolshies call themselves anarchists or not. I think it'd be grand if you could swap places with some poor sod in North Korea. Starve, get constantly watched by the police state, work huge amounts, get killed or sent to a slave camp if you disagree with Big Brother, etc. etc.

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MJ
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Jun 27 2007 03:24
daniel wrote:
Oh shut it you national socialist. "The struggle against fascism begins with the struggle against bolshevism" whether the bolshies call themselves anarchists or not.

In this case they don't, so no need to get all excited.

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Joseph Kay
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Jun 27 2007 07:38

the fact jonny calls kim jong-il thought a "liberatory ideology" says it all methinks.

jonnyflash
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Jun 28 2007 05:44

A) for Joseph K ------> The people's movement in Korea evicted their Japanese occupiers. The peoples movement in Korea included armed anarchist formations, such as that of Kwa Jin and others. This can accurately be termed "liberation". If still in doubt, ask anyone who has lived under occupation.

B) For Daniel----> I don't like pancakes, and i don't like pumpkin pie. Ergo, pancakes equals pumpkin pie. Fascism and Bolshevism are not the same, despite the apparent fact that you dislike both.

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Joseph Kay
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Jun 28 2007 06:18

imperialist pig-dog!

bastarx
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Jun 28 2007 06:20
jonnyflash wrote:
A) for Joseph K ------> The people's movement in Korea evicted their Japanese occupiers. The peoples movement in Korea included armed anarchist formations, such as that of Kwa Jin and others. This can accurately be termed "liberation". If still in doubt, ask anyone who has lived under occupation.

The whole planet is occupied by capital you fucking retard. I could care less what language the cops speak.

jonnyflash
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Jul 3 2007 02:17

Revol68: I'm sure you would see northern ireland as being occupied by the british jackboot, so in that case may i categorically assert that i'd rather live under this 'occupation' than 'liberated' N. Korea.

Jonny: Indeed, it does seem to show that life in a 1st world country tends to be cushier than life in the 3rd world.
I don't have much of an opinion on Northern Ireland(you would need to talk to my mum for that) especially given the dramatic changes in the standard of living now available to the people there. An Irish-Canadian activist friend of mine did say in 2002 upon returning from a trip there: " The objective basis for the armed struggle in Northern Ireland no longer exists".

Peter: The whole planet is occupied by capital you fucking retard. I could care less what language the cops speak.

Jonny: Well, capital tends to treat people differently based on differences in skin color, sex, geographic location, etc. Ask an Iraqi if they care what language their "cops" speaks. Systematic political or class-based genocide is a whole different world than what you feel you are talking about. A few hundred thousand dead kids is imperialist plunder and occupation. Getting a black eye at a demo is a better example of getting "policed".

McAnarchyism gives me a headache.

jonnyflash
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Jul 11 2007 07:41

revol68: this is no argument in favour of the war and occupation in the first place but ....Iraqi's <are> quite capable of hideous outrages towards other Iraqi's.

Jonny: I can't counter that argument more effectively than you have by actually presenting it. Easily accessible quotes from all sides in Iraq (including the Pentagon) agree that the occupation is THE reason for the escalating brutal violence in Iraq.

revol68: Perhaps you can ... explain what the armed struggle had to do with the 'standard of living
jonny: Well, objective conditions for any struggle include levels of material hardship, generally perceived legitemacy of a regime, and the specific capabilities of the regime to counter your plans. Subjective factors include your own crew's levels of organization and ability to exert influence on political events.

There's many objective and subjective factors to consider when it comes to organizing rebellion, but denying the effect of any one factor just because X (insert differing liberatory ideology here) found it important is a bad idea.

jonnyflash
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Jul 11 2007 08:07

One of the biggest media campaigns against the FARC-EP has been the propagation of the line that the FARC-EP are economically dependent upon the drug trade in Columbia.

For some researched info on this notion, I have turned to Canadian upstarts Brittain and Sacouman who are far more eloquent than I. The meat of their research paper is this:

- The FARC are growing numerically and geographically.
- coca production generally decreases in areas under FARC control. Concurrent escalations in activity raise new doubts about the Narco-terrorism line.
- the other side is the big coke mover, as recent massive seizures demonstrate.
- The available statistics on FARC participation in the drug trade are manufactured from whole cloth, with not a shred of evidence to back em up.
- Reasons for the continued growth and strength of the FARC despite the end of any assistance from the former USSR, and in the face of declining coca cultivations may require structural answers.
- The FARC feel they are struggling against domestic fascism in Columbia, as well as US imperialism.

Source: An Examination of the Insurgency’s Power and the Recent U.S. Indictment against the Leadership by Canadian scholars James J. Brittain, (University of New Brunswick) and R. James Sacouman, (Acadia University).

http://www.anncol.org/uk/site/doc.php?id=240

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888
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Jul 13 2007 03:56
jonnyflash wrote:
McAnarchyism gives me a headache.

It would help if before you said this you actually had a clue what either anarchism or mcanarchyism are. At least McAnarchyism tastes better than your pompous and badly thought out Stalinism-lite.

jonnyflash
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Dec 2 2007 10:19

We were lucky enough to host James J. Brittain, Uni of Nova Scotia prof for a couple events in Victoria, BC this week. Brittain's first-hand experiences in Colombia included being on a bus which was stopped by the quasi-govt paramilitaries, who handed out flyers to all bus riders, saying that electoral figures indicating how villiages vote is public knowledge, that their villiages must vote as a block for Uribe in the next election, or the paramilitaries will come and do massacres there. The guy Brittain was with literally shit his pants when these guys came around. Brittain successfully hooped one of the flyers to bring home as evidence. The fucking amazing thing is that despite that very real risk, 20% of the population still voted against Uribe in the last election.

Brittain also brought pics of what the paras to suspected resistance villiagers, litterally cut their hearts out in front of the other villiagers.
Other fun stuff includes raping the male community organizers in front of their families, to delegitemize their authority in the eyes of the women and kids. (it's a tactic developed for disrupting patriarchal power structures in societies characterized by high levels of machismo, seeking to bring an end to any organizing).

Canadian coal companies are up to their ears in Colombian coal. Laundering Colombian cocaine money brings many billions into the Canadian banking system each year. Canada put the FARC-EP on the terrorist list under US pressure to do so as one concession for refusal to officially sign on to the most recent Gulf War (there are hundreds of Canadian forces mobilized in a sort of "open secret", as well as Canadian military subcontractors. I have an .AVI movie file of the full hour-long talk and question period, as well as a smaller MP3 audio version. I highly reccomend anyone interested in Colombia to read Brittain's work, much of it is available free online at the Center for Research on Globalization site, Globalresearch.ca

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