Thought experiment - riots in france

Hi

Unlike Jack, I'm not willing to make any sacrifices for the French rioters, but that counts in their favour in my book. I certainly think they should be encouraged, especially from the safe distance of my comfy chair.

What is the prevailing view of the French working class? Perhaps some trusted French comrades would enlighten us.

I must say, I'm somewhat surprised at the extreme poverty visited upon these people by the French bourgeoisie. What model of social provision is it they so proudly defend? Could this happen in Norway? I’m not so sure.

I’m thinking this is this what Castoriadis meant by “barbarism”. Riots are the perfect compliment to right wing legislatures. At the heart of this unrest lies Franco-German market-Stalinist economic policy, and it’s effect on the money supply and the real incomes of the poorest sections of the French working class.

Euro-scepticism is all that separates the Franco-German rightists from our own Tories. If only they had shared our own rightists' xenophobia, they might have seen just how dangerous monetary union is. France’s reaction is certainly shaped by EU rules on public spending and subsidy.

And look at the French middle class reaction. It’s absurd that this takes place against the backdrop of France’s renowned 35-hour week leisure economy. “Hello Laziness”, indeed. I’ll certainly be taking Corinne Maier with an extra pinch of salt from now on.

Capital is failing us everywhere and violent flashpoints are inevitable and positive. Jack, what social policy proposal do you make in relation to these events? Universal citizen’s income and professional self-management?

Love

LR

poor little jack, waiting around for the perfect fight, because life's like that, nice and neat

one day, that perfect fight will come eh

who said they support them unconditionally, not i

you havn't said it, but it's implied by your disdain for any form of action anywhere by anybody, that info is clear to see from anyone reading these boards

anyone doing anything at g8, anyone doing something to stop the closure of a bus station involving being on it's roof for more than a day (oh the irony), anyone doing anything environmental (again, oh the irony), any kind of action against police, whether in paris or outside whetherspoons, regardless of the original fuckwitted reason for the incident, you said you wouldn't adopt the type of protest by the bus station rooft top protestors, as it would get in the way of your job, it's not a massive leap then to assume you'd never engage in anything like secondary (or even primary) strike action, as it get in the way of your job and perhaps stop you buying "stuff", you talk from the front and lead from the back on most issues

all these things suggest to me, and i may well be wrong, that you're waiting for the perfect fight before you do anything, and that in itself gives you a perfect reason for doing nothing, nothing but criticise that is

i have all the same reservations that you do about a lot of these areas, it's not your actual anlaysis that i don't like it's your high minded, mighty, pretentious, self righteous, know it all, po faced disdain that you treat all around you who happen to view things not exactly the same as you do, you're no better than those mad islamists who think that everyone apart from themselves should be killed as only they have the right and pure way

you keep on fetishing over the perfect fight if you like, but the only place that'll ever happen is in your head

that's a fair point catch..

Nick, my own view on this is that from our point of view we should try to understand these events as much as possible. That's incredibly difficult when much of the news reporting is very superficial. Most importantly it'd be useful to locate primary sources for what's going on. Very little of that has been forthcoming from either mainstream or left wing/independent/anarcho sources so far.

From my point of view, what's unusual about it is how it has continued to spread geographically (both into smaller towns, and across national boundaries) - something that rarely happens, and that it's continued to escalate in intensity in Paris (at least until last night). The important thing in terms of this is to look at the composition of the rioters (both within Paris, and across France), and what networks of communication, if any, have been set up. Shame my French is so shit.

There have been murmerings of a metro strike in Paris - presumably on H&S grounds - anything news relating to that would be useful.

You haven't read any anarcho posts about the riots at all, then?

Just as a taster - http://www.londonclasswar.org/French.pdf

No I'm not. This time. The derail came from oisleeps attack on me, after I mocked the ridiculous and deeply embarassing 'analysis' of the riots made by most anarchists. As an example, can you really read most of the posts here- http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=138703 and not cringe?

You might not like revol, but he's clearly and almost undisputably one of the few people talking anything approaching sense there. The rest of the anarchist responce is almost as embarassing as Hakim Bey.

granted, however you started an attack on something other people have said elsewhere, i.e. not on this thread

what did that add to the discourse attempted on this thread by nick?

nada

you latch on to something you don't like and permeate all discussions with it, regardless of whether it is relevant or not to the discussion in hand, instead of actually dealing with the topic in hand, you just revert back to bitching at things that no one on this thread has actually said, why not deal with what's said here rather than what someone wrote on urban75

i agree, why fly to paris when eurostar is much more convenient!

Isn't it possible that the rioting has several causes?

Its obvious Sarkozy provoked a conflict, therefore he felt he had something to gain. Presumably that is greater police powers and the cowing of the people on the estates. I reckon French anarchos should get out there to make sure that islamists and 'community leaders' don't use this for their own benefit. Although there seems to be little evidence of that, its what seems to happen here, some prick with the right coloured skin claims to be a representative of the community and gets himself a nice pay off.

The riots will stop, they are making enough arrests, it might take as long as a month but they will stop unless this turns into a revolution, which is unlikely. I think it would be a good thing if anarchists went there and discussed anarchism and anti-authoritarianism.

BTW LR French people are only lazy because they realise that they are being robbed of the fruits of their labour. Also the 35 hour week would create more jobs and would lead to fewer modern day servants working cash in hand for those poor pressed 'cash rich time poor' people.

hmm i don't think a islamic elements have feck all to do with it, and is certainly not what is splitting my hairs.

I stand in solidarity with the spirit of the majority of rioters, but at the same time it's hardly splitting hairs to point out the short comings of such tactics and some of the negative outcomes.

But yes the general attitude of the rioters is rather awesome, "we hate france and france hates us", "we live in shitholes, we hate it here", and they're far to savvy to be taken in by the islamic or nationalists fuckwits talking about an islamic paradise or a return to algeria.

I cannot express how big my erection is about these riots - I'm getting phone calls from air traffic control about it, the met office is saying that it's interfering with weather patterns. This is exciting - a fairly spontaneous outbreak of class anger in response to a specific provocation is sustaining itself and spreading. How is that not fucking exciting? To have kept going this long there must be some organisation developing behind this which might, with any luck, make itself felt after the violence has ended. It might be coopted, or it might just be smashed, but it has to be there.

Yeah, of course anyone that leapt on a plane now to get some riot action would be a dick, but that doesn't mean that we should just sit back and 'engage our critical faculties' - some of us can walk and think at the same time. That Class War leaflet was crap (mostly because it wasn't funny when it thought it was), but what it was trying to do is essential - we have to be interpreting this and getting that out in the face of what's passing for reporting on this and if that means declaring support for something despite its ambiguities then that's fine by me.

Sometimes sitting on the fence is not engaging your critical faculties, it's refusing to engage at all.