Trotsky Picture

I have to agrre with revol

So Trotsky is no different from imperialist gangsters like Stalin, has hatred blind people to historical reality. Yes we will probably not agree on Kronstadt, but to to say Trotsky deserved to be killed because of it is meaningless, unless you think that the same fate should have befallen many of those on the Communist Left who did not fully understand this error. Do people think that Stalin was right then to not only to kill Trotsky but also his partner and grandson. Please think about what you are really saying and about the company you are keeping when you say this. Has the Communist Left ever glorified the killing of any anarchist or even those who totally oppose them? Such a glorification of the killing of anyone has nothing to do with the proletariat.
Trotsky was not a part of capital when Stalin silenced him. He was slaughtered in order to ensure that his voice could not be raised against the war [url=Enter URL herehttp://en.internationalism.org/ir/103_trotsky.htm]
If I sound angry, I am because I could not believe that I would see postings supporting the bourgeoisie's slaughter of anybody on these forums, let alone support for Stalin and his hencemen. I can see why anarchist and other would be hostile to Trotsky because of Kronstandt but to support Stalin where is the logic: did the defenders of kronsandt die in order to have their slaughter used to justify Stalin's bloody hands?

Newyaka, I am fully aware that Joseph K is not a supporter of Stalin and hates his guts, but the logic of the argument is to justify his dirty work.

if bill gates shot richard branson, i wouldn't give a fuck and might even chuckle at their little spat, from a hyper-real distance of course, not thinking murder is in general a good thing. it's not exactly the same, but then again branson never authorised the use of chemical weapons on an insurgent proletariat either.

Trostky, the apologist of international revolution, was also responsabile for the defeat of the Ucranian Peasant uprising lead by Nestor Mackhno.

Trotsky was in deed a counter revolutionary, the man who sweared to wipe anarchism from russia with an iron broom, the man who promissed Juaquin Maurin that he would do everithyng to destroy anarchist influence in spanish sindicalism

That graphic I think is very much down to the role of the SWP (and other Trot groups) in the UK, and more specifically the past few years of internet discussions with people from those groups (not averse to labelling anarchists as muziks or kulaks and glorifying the attacks on Kronstadt and the Makhnovists either). So it's got loads to do with winding up SWP and Workers Power members, not a lot to do with glorifying Stalin. And yes it's silly, hence the "pwned!!!".

Really? His support for national liberation movements, "degenerated workers' state" and the rest of it really fucked up the workers movement for a long time.

It's not a question of opposition, it's a question of ordering massacres ("like partridges"), and defaming those trying to make a real revolution, then mystifiying a generation or three of "revolutionaries" who bought into all his crap.

Well, I can understand anarchists harbouring resentments against Trotsky, especially in the light of what Catch says, with the leftists winding up the anarchos. But I agree with Ernie that the crude logic of such a position ties itself up in knots. Stalin had Trotsky murdered precisely to erase the very last memories of the internationalist spirit of the Russian Revolution, which Trotsky respresented - despite all his opportunist mistakes. I think this is a better starting point for discussing Trotsky's heritage...

yes it's remarkable how radical you get when in opposition,. fuck'em he was nothing but the bureacracy in exile an anti working class cunt who lost his power struggle and paid for it.

Revol:

(The Struggle for Cultured Speech: Trotsky)

Hum!

Hi

Revenge is essentially an expression of exchange and as such must be non-communist, not to mention unchristian. Also, thanks to the precision of the statement, I cannot contend with it. It is true by definition.

Trotsky was neato even if he was a “bad man” or whatever the anarchists whine on about. If this one beard can do for ‘em, then they deserve what they get. As do we all. The working class made Stalin and Trotsky, they just followed the path we set them due to our own smallness and irresponsibility.

Saves ammo.

Love

LR

it was a thread whinging about the picture of trotsky it was never going to attract anything but, on a libertarian communist forum, get used to it.

perfect.

Revol: though I am not a vagina and my class origins are more mixed than you appear to believe, you are correct to say the quote was patronising, and I apologize. It did not help the discussion.
Nevertheless your welcoming of Stalin's murder of Trotsky:

is starling and disturbing. Does this mean that you also think that Stalin's repression of the Trotskyists, or anyone who supported the suppression of Kronstadt is justified because it is only one bunch of bureaucrats taking their revenge on those they have deposed? That the Terror, as long as it was directed at those you disagree with, was something that you would not condemn?
Whilst I apologize please accept that I find your use of abuse in these discussions offensive, and above all something that undermines and obstructs the development of discussion