War on Iran

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War on Iran is inevitable. How can we stop the British working class from joining the rollcall of the dead? We failed to stop war on Iraq. The left worked itself up into a lacklustre campaign against the war based primarily on liberal arguments and utilized (for the most part) purely liberal tactics in a kind of world-wide demonstration of defeatism, which seemed to be informed by an electoral and reformist strategy which teleologically speaking could be separated but little from the gear-up to the war itself.

Since then we have seen the gains of decades of struggle by workers across the 'axis of righteousness' rolled back in the flicker of an eye. The US is now a fully fledged dictatorship (totally unburdoned to now thoroughly assault its domestic proletariat) and should Labur win a landslide victory, or the Tories gain office I tend to think that the dereliction of habeus corpus and the renegement of the double jeopardy rights in England, the awakenment of sleeper cells in the Scottish Socialist Party, alongside even more new internment and house arrest powers and a national ID database (all moves that have taken place since the left was cowed as a result of its craven cowardice) will be only the begining.

I am not of the opinion that we currently have the time left to organise for an anarchist revolution before the coming world energy war unless we can fuck our government significantly within the next few months, or unless 'the British people' show a significant change of heart and vote wholesale for social democracy or revolutionary socialism. I am very deeply concerned for the future. I think that we can only hope that the coming election gives a strong showing for the SSP/SNP in Scotland and the Lib Dems in England, Cornwall, the Channel Islands, Mann and Wales. I'm even considering registering to vote.

For a peoples revolution

red star

From Znet:

Oil, Geopolitics, and the Coming War with Iran

......... by Michael T. Klare April 11, 2005

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As the United States gears up for an attack on Iran, one thing is certain: the Bush administration will never mention oil as a reason for going to war. As in the case of Iraq, weapons of mass destruction (WMD) will be cited as the principal justification for an American assault. "We will not tolerate the construction of a nuclear weapon [by Iran]," is the way President Bush put it in a much-quoted 2003 statement. But just as the failure to discover illicit weapons in Iraq undermined the administration's use of WMD as the paramount reason for its invasion, so its claim that an attack on Iran would be justified because of its alleged nuclear potential should invite widespread skepticism. More important, any serious assessment of Iran's strategic importance to the United States should focus on its role in the global energy equation.

Before proceeding further, let me state for the record that I do not claim oil is the sole driving force behind the Bush administration's apparent determination to destroy Iranian military capabilities. No doubt there are many national security professionals in Washington who are truly worried about Iran's nuclear program, just as there were many professionals who were genuinely worried about Iraqi weapons capabilities. I respect this. But no war is ever prompted by one factor alone, and it is evident from the public record that many considerations, including oil, played a role in the administration's decision to invade Iraq. Likewise, it is reasonable to assume that many factors -- again including oil -- are playing a role in the decision-making now underway over a possible assault on Iran.

Just exactly how much weight the oil factor carries in the administration's decision-making is not something that we can determine with absolute assurance at this time, but given the importance energy has played in the careers and thinking of various high officials of this administration, and given Iran's immense resources, it would be ludicrous not to take the oil factor into account -- and yet you can rest assured that, as relations with Iran worsen, American media reports and analysis of the situation will generally steer a course well clear of the subject (as they did in the lead-up to the invasion of Iraq).

One further caveat: When talking about oil's importance in American strategic thinking about Iran, it is important to go beyond the obvious question of Iran's potential role in satisfying our country's future energy requirements. Because Iran occupies a strategic location on the north side of the Persian Gulf, it is in a position to threaten oil fields in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iraq, and the United Arab Emirates, which together possess more than half of the world's known oil reserves. Iran also sits athwart the Strait of Hormuz, the narrow waterway through which, daily, 40% of the world's oil exports pass. In addition, Iran is becoming a major supplier of oil and natural gas to China, India, and Japan, thereby giving Tehran additional clout in world affairs. It is these geopolitical dimensions of energy, as much as Iran's potential to export significant quantities of oil to the United States, that undoubtedly govern the administration's strategic calculations.

Having said this, let me proceed to an assessment of Iran's future energy potential. According to the most recent tally by Oil and Gas Journal, Iran houses the second-largest pool of untapped petroleum in the world, an estimated 125.8 billion barrels. Only Saudi Arabia, with an estimated 260 billion barrels, possesses more; Iraq, the third in line, has an estimated 115 billion barrels. With this much oil -- about one-tenth of the world's estimated total supply -- Iran is certain to play a key role in the global energy equation, no matter what else occurs.

It is not, however, just sheer quantity that matters in Iran's case; no less important is its future productive capacity. Although Saudi Arabia possesses larger reserves, it is now producing oil at close to its maximum sustainable rate (about 10 million barrels per day). It will probably be unable to raise its output significantly over the next 20 years while global demand, pushed by significantly higher consumption in the United States, China, and India, is expected to rise by 50%. Iran, on the other hand, has considerable growth potential: it is now producing about 4 million barrels per day, but is thought to be capable of boosting its output by another 3 million barrels or so. Few, if any, other countries possess this potential, so Iran's importance as a producer, already significant, is bound to grow in the years ahead.

And it is not just oil that Iran possesses in great abundance, but also natural gas. According to Oil and Gas Journal, Iran has an estimated 940 trillion cubic feet of gas, or approximately 16% of total world reserves. (Only Russia, with 1,680 trillion cubic feet, has a larger supply.) As it takes approximately 6,000 cubic feet of gas to equal the energy content of 1 barrel of oil, Iran's gas reserves represent the equivalent of about 155 billion barrels of oil. This, in turn, means that its combined hydrocarbon reserves are the equivalent of some 280 billion barrels of oil, just slightly behind Saudi Arabia's combined supply. At present, Iran is producing only a small share of its gas reserves, about 2.7 trillion cubic feet per year. This means that Iran is one of the few countries capable of supplying much larger amounts of natural gas in the future.

What all this means is that Iran will play a critical role in the world's future energy equation. This is especially true because the global demand for natural gas is growing faster than that for any other source of energy, including oil. While the world currently consumes more oil than gas, the supply of petroleum is expected to contract in the not-too-distant future as global production approaches its peak sustainable level -- perhaps as soon as 2010 -- and then begins a gradual but irreversible decline. The production of natural gas, on the other hand, is not likely to peak until several decades from now, and so is expected to take up much of the slack when oil supplies become less abundant. Natural gas is also considered a more attractive fuel than oil in many applications, especially because when consumed it releases less carbon dioxide (a major contributor to the greenhouse effect).

No doubt the major U.S. energy companies would love to be working with Iran today in developing these vast oil and gas supplies. At present, however, they are prohibited from doing so by Executive Order (EO) 12959, signed by President Clinton in 1995 and renewed by President Bush in March 2004. The United States has also threatened to punish foreign firms that do business in Iran (under the Iran-Libya Sanctions Act of 1996), but this has not deterred many large companies from seeking access to Iran's reserves. China, which will need vast amounts of additional oil and gas to fuel its red-hot economy, is paying particular attention to Iran. According to the Department of Energy (DoE), Iran supplied 14% of China's oil imports in 2003, and is expected to provide an even larger share in the future. China is also expected to rely on Iran for a large share of its liquid natural gas (LNG) imports. In October 2004, Iran signed a $100 billion, 25-year contract with Sinopec, a major Chinese energy firm, for joint development of one of its major gas fields and the subsequent delivery of LNG to China. If this deal is fully consummated, it will constitute one of China's biggest overseas investments and represent a major strategic linkage between the two countries.

India is also keen to obtain oil and gas from Iran. In January, the Gas Authority of India Ltd. (GAIL) signed a 30-year deal with the National Iranian Gas Export Corp. for the transfer of as much as 7.5 million tons of LNG to India per year. The deal, worth an estimated $50 billion, will also entail Indian involvement in the development of Iranian gas fields. Even more noteworthy, Indian and Pakistani officials are discussing the construction of a $3 billion natural gas pipeline from Iran to India via Pakistan ¬ an extraordinary step for two long-term adversaries. If completed, the pipeline would provide both countries with a substantial supply of gas and allow Pakistan to reap $200-$500 million per year in transit fees. "The gas pipeline is a win-win proposition for Iran, India, and Pakistan," Pakistani Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz declared in January.

Despite the pipeline's obvious attractiveness as an incentive for reconciliation between India and Pakistan -- nuclear powers that have fought three wars over Kashmir since 1947 and remain deadlocked over the future status of that troubled territory -- the project was condemned by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice during a recent trip to India. "We have communicated to the Indian government our concerns about the gas pipeline cooperation between Iran and India," she said on March 16 after meeting with Indian Foreign Minister Natwar Singh in New Delhi. The administration has, in fact, proved unwilling to back any project that offers an economic benefit to Iran. This has not, however, deterred India from proceeding with the pipeline.

Japan has also broken ranks with Washington on the issue of energy ties with Iran. In early 2003, a consortium of three Japanese companies acquired a 20% stake in the development of the Soroush-Nowruz offshore field in the Persian Gulf, a reservoir thought to hold 1 billion barrels of oil. One year later, the Iranian Offshore Oil Company awarded a $1.26 billion contract to Japan's JGC Corporation for the recovery of natural gas and natural gas liquids from Soroush-Nowruz and other offshore fields.

When considering Iran's role in the global energy equation, therefore, Bush administration officials have two key strategic aims: a desire to open up Iranian oil and gas fields to exploitation by American firms, and concern over Iran's growing ties to America's competitors in the global energy market. Under U.S. law, the first of these aims can only be achieved after the President lifts EO 12959, and this is not likely to occur as long as Iran is controlled by anti-American mullahs and refuses to abandon its uranium enrichment activities with potential bomb-making applications. Likewise, the ban on U.S. involvement in Iranian energy production and export gives Tehran no choice but to pursue ties with other consuming nations. From the Bush administration's point of view, there is only one obvious and immediate way to alter this unappetizing landscape -- by inducing "regime change" in Iran and replacing the existing leadership with one far friendlier to U.S. strategic interests.

That the Bush administration seeks to foster regime change in Iran is not in any doubt. The very fact that Iran was included with Saddam's Iraq and Kim Jong Il's North Korea in the "Axis of Evil" in the President's 2002 State of the Union Address was an unmistakable indicator of this. Bush let his feelings be known again in June 2003, at a time when there were anti-government protests by students in Tehran. "This is the beginning of people expressing themselves toward a free Iran, which I think is positive," he declared. In a more significant indication of White House attitudes on the subject, the Department of Defense has failed to fully disarm the People's Mujaheddin of Iran (or Mujaheddin-e Khalq, MEK), an anti-government militia now based in Iraq that has conducted terrorist actions in Iran and is listed on the State Department's roster of terrorist organizations. In 2003, the Washington Post reported that some senior administration figures would like to use the MEK as a proxy force in Iran, in the same manner that the Northern Alliance was employed against the Taliban in Afghanistan.

The Iranian leadership is well aware that it faces a serious threat from the Bush administration and is no doubt taking whatever steps it can to prevent such an attack. Here, too, oil is a major factor in both Tehran's and Washington's calculations. To deter a possible American assault, Iran has threatened to close the Strait of Hormuz and otherwise obstruct oil shipping in the Persian Gulf area. "An attack on Iran will be tantamount to endangering Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and, in a word, the entire Middle East oil," Iranian Expediency Council secretary Mohsen Rezai said on March 1st.

Such threats are taken very seriously by the U.S. Department of Defense. "We judge Iran can briefly close the Strait of Hormuz, relying on a layered strategy using predominantly naval, air, and some ground forces," Vice Admiral Lowell E. Jacoby, the director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, testified before the Senate Intelligence Committee on February 16th.

Planning for such attacks is, beyond doubt, a major priority for top Pentagon officials. In January, veteran investigative reporter Seymour Hersh reported in the New Yorker magazine that the Department of Defense was conducting covert reconnaissance raids into Iran, supposedly to identify hidden Iranian nuclear and missile facilities that could be struck in future air and missile attacks. "I was repeatedly told that the next strategic target was Iran," Hersh said of his interviews with senior military personnel. Shortly thereafter, the Washington Post revealed that the Pentagon was flying surveillance drones over Iran to verify the location of weapons sites and to test Iranian air defenses. As noted by the Post, "Aerial espionage [of this sort] is standard in military preparations for an eventual air attack." There have also been reports of talks between U.S. and Israeli officials about a possible Israeli strike on Iranian weapons facilities, presumably with behind-the-scenes assistance from the United States.

In reality, much of Washington's concern about Iran's pursuit of WMD and ballistic missiles is sparked by fears for the safety of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iraq, other Persian Gulf oil producers, and Israel rather than by fears of a direct Iranian assault on the United States. "Tehran has the only military in the region that can threaten its neighbors and Gulf security," Jacoby declared in his February testimony. "Its expanding ballistic missile inventory presents a potential threat to states in the region." It is this regional threat that American leaders are most determined to eliminate.

In this sense, more than any other, the current planning for an attack on Iran is fundamentally driven by concern over the safety of U.S. energy supplies, as was the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq. In the most telling expression of White House motives for going to war against Iraq, Vice President Dick Cheney (in an August 2002 address to the Veterans of Foreign Wars) described the threat from Iraq as follows: "Should all [of Hussein's WMD] ambitions be realized, the implications would be enormous for the Middle East and the United States.... Armed with an arsenal of these weapons of terror and a seat atop 10 percent of the world's oil reserves, Saddam Hussein could then be expected to seek domination of the entire Middle East, take control of a great portion of the world's energy supplies, [and] directly threaten America's friends throughout the region." This was, of course, unthinkable to Bush's inner circle. And all one need do is substitute the words "Iranian mullahs" for Saddam Hussein, and you have a perfect expression of the Bush administration case for making war on Iran.

So, even while publicly focusing on Iran's weapons of mass destruction, key administration figures are certainly thinking in geopolitical terms about Iran's role in the global energy equation and its capacity to obstruct the global flow of petroleum. As was the case with Iraq, the White House is determined to eliminate this threat once and for all. And so, while oil may not be the administration's sole reason for going to war with Iran, it is an essential factor in the overall strategic calculation that makes war likely.

Michael T. Klare is a professor of peace and world security studies at Hampshire College and the author of Blood and Oil: The Dangers and Consequences of America's Growing Dependency on Imported Oil (Metropolitan Books).

Copyright 2005 Michael T. Klare

[This article first appeared on Tomdispatch.com, a weblog of the Nation Institute, which offers a steady flow of alternate sources, news, and opinion from Tom Engelhardt, long time editor in publishing and author of The End of Victory Culture and The Last Days of Publishing.]

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Lib Dems are our only hope...?

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war on iran is not ''inevitable'', its a pssibility, and i think that the left woudl be wise to continue to speak about it in terms of it being a strong possibility in order to build up pre-emptive anti-war feeling to such an invasion, but to say its inevitable is lunacy.

Ad the US is cleary NOT a ''fully fledged dictatorship'' nor do the neo-cons have any such intentions, if you really do worry about a reformist electoral strategy then don't play into the hands of liberals by talking such nonsense.

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I think that we can only hope that the coming election gives a strong showing for the SSP/SNP in Scotland and the Lib Dems in England, Cornwall, the Channel Islands, Mann and Wales. I'm even considering registering to vote.

So let me get this straight; to prevent war in Iran you're considering and calling for people to vote the same parties you yourself described as, "a lacklustre campaign against the war based primarily on liberal arguments and utilized (for the most part) purely liberal tactics in a kind of world-wide demonstration of defeatism"? Defeatism is exactly the basis of your line of argument. Think of it in rational terms:- a greater Lib Dem share of the vote will not stop any plans the US may have to go to war. What it will do is make people settle into an even bigger stupor than before when they realise how pointless and impotent their vote is, in the greater scheme of things. If the US really wants to go to war, it will, even if (as before) public opinion in the respective "coalition" is divided.

I'm young and naiive, but bloody pissed off. If they had the tenacity to invade a third country [oh yeah, remember Afghanistan and how they "liberated" it] this could be the turning point. We've witnessed the biggest protests ever seen in our country, we have the capitalist powers stamping on their territory like never before and the fucking G8 is coming to town!...things are ripe for radicalism not reform!!

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The US is so a dictatorship. http//www.blackboxvoting.org/

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to prevent war in Iran you're considering and calling for people to vote the same parties you yourself described as, "a lacklustre campaign against the war based primarily on liberal arguments and utilized (for the most part) purely liberal tactics in a kind of world-wide demonstration of defeatism"?

Yes. I personally consider the only chance we have of staving off dictatorship here is a hung parliament.

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a greater Lib Dem share of the vote will not stop any plans the US may have to go to war. What it will do is make people settle into an even bigger stupor than before when they realise how pointless and impotent their vote is, in the greater scheme of things.

This argument does not make sense. I also fail to follow the logic that a high showing for the liberals instead of a Labour landslide would "settle [the working class] into an even bigger stupor", anymore than another massive Labour victory would.

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I'm young and naiive, but bloody pissed off. If they had the tenacity to invade a third country [oh yeah, remember Afghanistan and how they "liberated" it] this could be the turning point.

I would like to think so but I can't see it. I mean what are we going to have this time - an ever bigger sham festival where twice as many people say 'not in my name'?

Get used to it mate. It's happening. The US left at the moment is far too weak to even defend the attacks being made by its government against it, let alone stop it from doing something.

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We've witnessed the biggest protests ever seen in our country

Which ultimately played straight into the hands of the ruling class.

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, we have the capitalist powers stamping on their territory like never before and the fucking G8 is coming to town!...things are ripe for radicalism not reform!!

Yes things are definitely ripe for radical social change, but only to the right. The G8 is a fucking irrelevance; I'm growing very sick of saying this to people but honestly it touches on the priorities of class struggle and social revolution only extremely tangentially, and for all the effort and funds that is expended upon it by our (tiny) movement we'd have been better spending the time on finding a way to play the pools. The best thing that could happen for the G8 is if nobody shows up to protest and the authorities end up ridd faced at all the expenditure that has been drawn from peoples taxes to police the event.

Also at the risk of being a bit pompous I don't think that it's a particularly sensible comment to write 'reform' in that sentence. I am a communist and my 'revolutionary credentials' are not really up for discussion, as if there's some kind of 'radical' wankfest about who is the most revolutionary and who is a 'reformist'.

I also think it's really fucking stupid, fundamental quite privileged and not very grounded in reality to set up this idea of social reform as being somehow undesireable - a little bit woosy shall we say?

To take an example, in this country we have a national health service. That means that people like me (who live on working class wages) can access medical care. In the US, where people don't have a national health service, people routinely die of totally preventable illnesses which could have been cured with the application of a few anti-biotics or a routine operation. That is one example of a 'reform' that our forebears struggled for, fought for, in some cases fucking died for.

In Scotland, because of a social reform for which agitation had been going on for decades, homeless people have legally to be rehoused by their local authorities. This has helped me out a lot. I found myself in a poverty trap where me and my partner were shelving out all of our dole money in rent for a shitty, little bedsit, the details whereof I can't be bothered elaborating on but the end-up was a dole cheque failed to come thru and we couldn't meet the rent. As a result of this social reform we were then rehoused within a week or so, and OK it was really crap and I had to spend a few days hanging around loads of junkies in a B&B but the alternative without this piece of progressive legislation would have been grovelling to friends and family with the uncertainty that they might then say "we've had enough of you" and we'd be on the street, as many in the past were forced to.

No as a communist-anarchist I am very much up for social reform, and anyone who doesn't believe that it would good for working class people's conditions to be improved is a fucking callous narcissist.

Back to Iran however my point was not that I particularly think it is not worth trying to stop the US government invading Iran, I just believe that short of the American left taking up arms against the US dictatorship, there are no options available to them (hence my use of the term 'inevitable', as the American left is frankly not going to take up arms, and even supposing would not necessarily make much of impact anyway).

Wrt Cartwheels comments it is also really suicidally backward at this stage of the game to be throwing around statements like "the US is cleary NOT a ''fully fledged dictatorship'' nor do the neo-cons have any such intentions".

The US is a fucking dictatorship, OK. Fact. Cut the crap and stop being an imperial lackey.

It's not necessarily something you'd want to assert if you're talking to someone with no grounding in current affairs but _it is a widely recognized and documented fact_ that the past two presidential elections were absolutely rigged, not just slightly. They have systematically and systemically discounted the votes of hundreds of thousands (perhaps millions), they have altered the votes tallied on computer databases post facto so that in certain constituencies the democratic candidates registered a negative vote into the tens of thousands, they have registered voters in areas where they were not entitled to vote, they have allowed voters to vote in some areas upwards of a dozen times, and they have done this all with an atitude that is brazen. The US ruling class has responded to this change in political governance by reluctantly acceding to it. We can only speculate as to why the US ruling class considers the current epoch to be one in which a dictatorship is preferable to infighting and jostling for power.

As regards reformist electoral strategies cartwheels - fuck off, and see my comments above about activist wankfests over 'who is the more revolutionary' - that wasn't what I was getting at, and I certainly wasn't 'playing into the hands of liberals' or anything similar by suggesting that the chances of us having a revolution in this country anytime before the coming world war are totally and irrevocably fuckt if we get another strong government, in fact I was doing quite the opposite. In order that we can actually still have time to organise a revolution we need a weak government that we can attack from the word go, where we can go on the offensive. This could buy us enough time to organize in our communities so that we are ready to launch an uprising when the shit really hits the fan in about 5 - 10 years. If we have a strong government at the end of the election increasingly I think it a certainty that we will not get another election.

Solidarity,

Nick

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i don't know about the whole issue but it does seem as if the USA have a vendetta against my family. Let's look at the facts!

* Afghanistan: two (distant-ish) relatives living there until about ten years ago

* Iraq: My grandma and her sisters both born there and lived there for several decades.

* Iran: Grandparents lived there for a fair while. Me dad and both uncles born there and lived there for their whole childhood.

Where next..? I reckon Barbados cos i've got a load of rellies there too, or Northumberland!!

They hate me, i swear it sad

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Yes. I personally consider the only chance we have of staving off dictatorship here is a hung parliament.

Or at least something simillar whereby the more rebellious labour mp's together with an increased number of lib dems would have enough votes to shoot down the worst of Tony's schemes.

So yeah vote lib dem, or labour if your labour mp voted against the war.

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Let's not be too down on the anti-war protests -- that many good people were involved with. They did not stop the wars against Afghanistan and Iraq, but I think they caused a lot of political damage to New Labour and therefore Blair or Brown will think very hard before committing UK troops to an invasion of Iran.

Logistical, etc support is *very* likely, however, especially UK troops covering for US re-deployment towards Iran -- we'll have to make sure that any such involvement by stealth is uncovered.

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Lib Dem share of the vote will not stop any plans the US may have to go to war.

I agree they have never said that they won't stop any plans for such action in Iran but to stop the same mistakes made in Iraq by Tony Blair and crew by telling half-truths at the start of the conflict.

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Yes. I personally consider the only chance we have of staving off dictatorship here is a hung parliament.

I really dont see where you're coming from Nick; we already live in a *covert* dictatorship. The biggest decisions in society and the course of humanity itself is a decision made by those who have amassed the greatest wealth (and power) - the corporations. And, though I hardly need to tell you, they're about as far from democratic as you can get, being infact pretty close to what Mussolini was [atributed to be] talking about in his "corporate state".

Now, whether we are going to face crude overt authoritarianism, I find that unlikely. I mean, in times of agitation the modern state shows the true basis and justification of its existence; plain, basic violence. But it always maintains the illusion that fundamentally it is "freedom" and "democracy" institutionalised. To do otherwise would undermine the sophistication of its authority.

[If you mean Labour gaining a third office, yeah sure a consecutive example of an "elected dictatorship". But that'd be ignoring the fact that the other two parties are identical anyway AND the whole "democratic" system is just one great big elected dictatorship.]

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This argument does not make sense. I also fail to follow the logic that a high showing for the liberals instead of a Labour landslide would "settle [the working class] into an even bigger stupor", anymore than another massive Labour victory would.

I mean to say that voting for a political (bourgeois and all that) party in the view of actually changing your situation, in a real sense that means something, then finding there's bugger all between them, is going to counter-productive to say the least. You have the situation where no-one cares about "politics", if you could then motivate them to become active etc. channeling that energy into the self-same system that goes to war and that supports and aids the robbing of the working-class, ie. that works against them in the first place, is going to leave them even more powerless.

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Get used to it mate. It's happening. The US left at the moment is far too weak to even defend the attacks being made by its government against it, let alone stop it from doing something.

What would a strong left movement look like? How do we get there?

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We've witnessed the biggest protests ever seen in our country|

Which ultimately played straight into the hands of the ruling class.

I really dont see how it played into the hands of the ruling class. Did it somehow provide Tony with another reason to "get those Iraqis"? No, he ignored the protests of millions, but in the process it radicalised countless of people and illustrated perfectly the inadequacy of "democracy" and "democratic protest".

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Yes things are definitely ripe for radical social change, but only to the right.

Right radicalism? Sorry, but you're way off.

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The G8 is a fucking irrelevance

The G8 is a meeting of the world's poltical and economic leaders, people who are responsible for the murder of thousands, the poverty of billions and the representation of capitalism and established rule everywhere. The very fact that it affects the lives of so many should suggest that it's far from irrelevent. Also, though we may achieve little directly in being there, some things are too important not to say.

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Also at the risk of being a bit pompous I don't think that it's a particularly sensible comment to write 'reform' in that sentence.

I'm not against reforms - I am against reform as a strategy to achieve social change. The examples you cited (NIHS and rehousing) I would ofcourse support...but as a revolutionary I am against the very need for such things, both of which presuppose the existence that medical care is somewhere not free and that society allows large-scale homelessness and poverty to exist in the first place. However voting to "keep the right out" or in the hope that our benevolent leaders wont send us to war, is totally anti-revolutionary and reformist in the negative sense.

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I think spoiling your ballot paper continues to be the best option. Unless you live in Sedgefield in which case I think most of us would enjoy voting just to get that small bit of revenge and wipe that smarmy grin off his face.

I don't know whether a coalition government would be that much of an improvement - i reckon the lib dems would roll over and let labour get away with whatever blair wanted just to get their precious europe extra level of bureaucracy in place.

i think any possible gains a lib dem balance of power might have would be more than overshadowed by the legitimising of their ballot card that our vote has, compared to calling for "don't vote for any of the lying scrounging politician scum, they're all the same", which is really not at all far left of what most people are actually saying themselves, anarchist or not.

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What does spoiling your ballot achieve?

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not as much a spoiling yourself in front of the occupational psychologist, 6 months sick full pay!

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meanoldman wrote:
What does spoiling your ballot achieve?

About as much as voting?

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What does spoiling your ballot achieve?

Spoiling your vote is mostly a symbolic action, to say that you will not allow any other human being nor institution the right to decide your decisions...that is, that you are against the very concept of parliamentary "democracy" and for real democracy and political self-management. It is not an adequate action on its own without organising to create the alternatives to the existing system!

I've just turned 18, so this will be my first election wink

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How does it say that? Surely in acknowledging the ballot box as a useful means of expression of political ideas you give credit and legitimacy to the very thing you're oppossing.

And it's not just mostly a symbolic action, it is a symbolic action. tongue

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Surely in acknowledging the ballot box as a useful means of expression

No, it's a useless method of expression...and that point would only make sense if we were actually legitmising the system by voting in it, by supporting a particular party seeking political power within the government. Likewise, it is rarely a sufficient way of ex-pressing the belief in its uselessness as a form of political expression; thus the symbolic nature.

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And it's not just mostly a symbolic action, it is a symbolic action

No, if you got enough people to spoil their votes it could reflect badly in local election, it can act as a stimulus and motivator to seperate yourself from power politics and to participate in real organisation and action. But, mostly symbolic.