Maybe people can distribute this at the picket line:
http://www.libcom.org/history/articles/brighton-bin-mens-strike-2001/index.php
to show whats possible.
What can workers in other sectors do to support strikes?
You just sort of answered the question I just asked on the original thread. But I think the suspicion/bewilderment/being automatically classed as opportunist lefties type of response one is sometimes met with is a more modern symptom, and something that has to be overcome. In the 70's solidarity was not met with such suspicion. If there is to be a strong workers movement it will have to be built by face to face contact, even at the cost of some uncomfortable awkward moments. Alot of the time it's the union officials giving out the suspicious vibes or encouraging it, fear of 'outside agitators' - which is linked to the isolated sectionalism that usually means strikes are defeated in isolation from solidarity from other workers. (If a dispute is not yours then you have no business sticking your nose in etc.) It has to be confronted. As to what can people do - go to the particular situation and look/ask is the best way to answer that.
Jack wrote:
Apart from the (almost always depressing) going down to the picket lines with food and some cash and telling them you support them, for most workers I think there are limits to what can be done, especially with the current state of class struggle: often money isn't being collected, they've got no reason to listen to a bunch of lefties, there isn't likely to be the will to do mass picketting, there's no family hardship and if you offer to help out with anything they want, they're just going to think you're mental etc. etc.
I'm not so sure about this. The pickets I've been on (as a striker), I was glad for any human contact at all, really. I should imagine that the pickets on this strike will have a leaflet explaining why they're out -- you could offer to take some & stick them through doors where you live. Provided you lived locally, of course. If someone did that for me, I wouldn't think they were mental. Unless it was you, obviously, Jack. 
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Obviously there's also problems with coming in from the outside and trying to direct their struggle and there's obviously (effectivly at this point in time) no chance of bringing your own workplace out in any act of concrete solidarity.
True. But then there's the opposite problem of parachutaphobia.
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So I think most of the time, there really is very little you can do.
Again, probably true. But "very little" isn't "nothing."
Ret Marut wrote:
In the 70's solidarity was not met with such suspicion.
Hm, are you sure about this? As much as I adore Solidarity, according to a few people I've spoken to they were treated with a lot of suspicion and didn't get open armed welcomes all the time. Most people, even in times of mass struggle just thought they were annoying lefties. My Mum went to the Clydeside occupation with them when the conference was help in Aberdeen, and she definitely got them impression they didn't think much of them.
the button wrote:
I'm not so sure about this. The pickets I've been on (as a striker), I was glad for any human contact at all, really.
Yea, I'm sure the human contact is nice, and of course it's important to let them know they are not alone, to use a lefty cliche. Of course I think you should always support picket lines when they're occurring, and there is some value in it - just not much.
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I should imagine that the pickets on this strike will have a leaflet explaining why they're out -- you could offer to take some & stick them through doors where you live. Provided you lived locally, of course.
Yea, tbh I made that post with it aimed at the present situation, and taunts readied at the libcom group. No one in the libcom group lives in Haringey. Most of us live nowhere near. And from my situation writting the post, I live about 2 hours from there.
But even that aside, yea I totally agree there is stuff you can do and stuff that's worthwhile. What I said is there is very little that we're able to do.
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If someone did that for me, I wouldn't think they were mental. Unless it was you, obviously, Jack. :wink:
Because you're a leftist. 
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True. But then there's the opposite problem of parachutaphobia.
I don't think you really believe that me not wanting to travel from Brighton to tell some refuse collectors I support their struggle is the 'parachutaphobia', do you?
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Again, probably true. But "very little" isn't "nothing."
I don't think I ever said nothing? 
Jack wrote:
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True. But then there's the opposite problem of parachutaphobia.I don't think you really believe that me not wanting to travel from Brighton to tell some refuse collectors I support their struggle is the 'parachutaphobia', do you? ;)
Lazy sod. :anrgy:
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Again, probably true. But "very little" isn't "nothing."I don't think I ever said nothing?
I was agreeing with you. Cock. 
Seems we're talking about workers in two senses here. Workers as isolated individuals and workers in a collective sense.
The strongest and most powerful expression of solidarity is surely to go on strike yourself. For each workplace to send delegations to other workplaces to call for and offer support. To form joint strike committees, etc. But this can only happen in times of high class struggle.
As individuals, the only thing we can do is to militate. I don't think this means handing out food or donations on pickets lines - although I totally understand the urge! The problem with this is that it supports long, drawn-out strikes that always seem to fail. Isolated movements, no matter how militant always get crushed. What really makes the bourgeoisie take notice is mass struggle.
In order to get to the point where mass struggles can develop, the class has to develop a political consciousness of its needs and interests. Those individuals who feel that need in a period when the class as a whole is still passive, are the first expressions of its struggle to understand itself. Those individuals need to get to together, discuss and clarify their understanding, and eventually organise themselves to spread that understanding amongst their comrades.
This slow, difficult process of discussion and political organisation and the effort to build up a political culture in the working class is the best method by which individuals can show solidarity with the whole of their class, on strike or not.
Fuck it. One more post on this thread.
Does this bit (particularly the bit in bold)....
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As individuals, the only thing we can do is to militate. I don't think this means handing out food or donations on pickets lines - although I totally understand the urge! The problem with this is that it supports long, drawn-out strikes that always seem to fail. Isolated movements, no matter how militant always get crushed. What really makes the bourgeoisie take notice is mass struggle.
.... mean that, had you been around in 1984-85 (and for all I know, you were), you would have been against collecting money, food & toys for the miners and their families?
Hi
Ret Marut wrote:
As to what can people do - go to the particular situation and look/ask is the best way to answer that.
Jack wrote:
My Mum went to the Clydeside occupation with them when the conference was help in Aberdeen, and she definitely got them impression they didn't think much of them.
Wise words. The track record of “the left” (in all its incarnations, libertarian or otherwise) hardly suggests their interference will be constructive.
The thing is that “supporting struggle” is daft. No one in their right mind wants to struggle for the sake of it, they have objectives that give rise to conflict.
The Fire Fighters strike maybe seen as a successful action, in so far as it was instrumental in achieving political progress towards their preferred outcome, and that had some quite active public opposition. I have a couple of right wing social acquaintances who argued that the public should be given access to “their fire engines” to run them themselves seeing as the Fire Fighters were obviously too expensive to do the job. Also, the withdrawal of labour was quite weak, with Fire Fighters themselves leaving their own picket lines in cases of emergency. So maybe it was really a successful “protest action” rather a strike in the traditional sense.
I imagine Teachers’ and Doctors’ strikes would be marginally more effective than, say, the strike at Gate Gourmet. I get a good feeling about the outcome of strikes involving high replacement costs of labour, no market competition, wages backed by taxation, all that kind of stuff. Then you need to have a recognised trade union take a ballot, otherwise going on strike is against your contract and you will likely be dismissed.
In a situation where we had a guaranteed minimum income regardless of whether we were working or not, workers could budget ahead and go on very long strikes. If we could get a reformist government in power that paid people to go on strike, I'm wondering if that would just put us back into a 1979 situation. Perhaps it would work if we financed the minimum income solely from corporation tax.
Returning to Jack’s question. In order to support strikes as they emerge I would take a view of the strike’s objective and help achieve that. What did the Gate Gourmet strikers actually want? What could we have done to bring it about?
Love
LR
It's not 'pacifist' to discuss with striking workers about the necessity for struggles to extend. The students in France understood this very clearly when they went to the waged workers and discussed...the need to widen the movement. Not as some abstract ideal but as a concrete and immediate possibility.
This is what we did to the best of our limited abilities during the 84-85 miners' strike for example. The left communists were the only people saying this - all the leftists were following the NUM line of getting the other miners out before you could go to the rest of the class, and thus engaging in dead-end confrontations with the cops.
Hi
Presumably Haringey Accord won’t be paid whilst its workers are on strike. Could the funds not be diverted direct to the workers who could carry on as normal as a self managed enterprise. Plus, they’d not have to pay the bureaucracy or shareholders, so they could give themselves a payrise.
Maybe someone in Haringey’s accounts department could make a “suggestion”.
Love
LR
Alf wrote:
It's not 'pacifist' to discuss with striking workers about the necessity for struggles to extend.
Agreed. Demagorg appeared to be discouraging people from meeting with and supporting these strikers. Things develop thru a process, developing communication and breaking out of isolation is part of that. As rightly pointed out his dismissal of supporting long strikes is stupid - the ICC is waiting for perfectly formed forms of struggles motivated by pure forms of class consciousness. Their absence is a constant excuse to keep talking and do little. Mass struggle starts as something less than mass, usually - get used to it.
when we did a couple of workplace strikes we would have loved for someone even the fucking swp to come down and chat with us.
when a potentially ongoing strike is just starting i think it's just 'nice' for the strikers if other working class people turn up for a bit of a chat and to say that we support them and wish them luck - and in some cases may be in a position to help them if they want it. so if i go to the binmen's picket in tottenham tomorrow, i will ask them what the reasons are, and tell them that there is a group that may be able to help them in some way (haringey solidarity group) i'd offer them our phone number, and er that's about it really.
given the current level of the class struggle at the moment i don't see what else we can do
Hi
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given the current level of the class struggle at the moment i don't see what else we can do
So much for the “The Best Politics on Libcom”. I’d have thought Accord were appointed by local government councillors, might be worth seeing if they’ve got anything to say for themselves.
Why not take all the rubbish and dump it outside local councillors’ houses? Maybe if we all sent a turd in a polythene bag to…
Accord House
Albany Place
Welwyn Garden City
Herts AL7 1HX
Someone might get the message we were not pleased.
Love
LR
Not to sound too flippant but maybe go down there and ask them what you can do? From my experience you will only come across as opportunistic lefties if you act like opportunistic lefties.
So be open about what your politics are, but don't force it down their throat. They may say not much, they may say there is something you can do. That something may include everything from fundraising , to putting holes in tires but what matters is that they understand that they direct their own struggle and you are here to help.
Also from my experience not looking like opportunistic lefties means going down there consistently and often so they don't feel like the campaign of the month, but that you actulally care about their struggle. And if you aren't aforementioned opportunistic activists chasing the flavour of the month issue you probably should.
Yeah I think the limited amount you can do is worth doing if you're near the picket line. I'm not sure it would be worth someone with a full-time job from Brighton going. That said it would be worth someone making contact, especially if the strikes escalates and more active solidarity is needed, like collections or mass pickets. That said, I'm not aware of any mass pickets having taken place in the past few years...
My first picketline experience was hideously embarrassing. With the SWP, went to a posties' line with my local organiser. I basically stood there while she spoke to some of them with a stack of Socialist Workers and told them how their struggle was connected to the anti-capitalist movement + summit protests which were going on. She had balls though, but to me it seemed like a completely inappropriate way of social interaction. I've been to other picket lines since and it's been a bit awkward. I suppose maybe you get used to it or something? But then levels of struggle now are so low that maybe there aren't enough to get used to!
These are all good ideas, but surely the most important thing you can do is just stick around for a morning or afternoon (or, if it's ongoing - a couple of mornings a week) and physically support the picket, distribute their leaflets to passers by and (attempt to) prevent other workers from going in? This is far more important that turning up and giving a lofty lecture.
Alan wrote:
These are all good ideas, but surely the most important thing you can do is just stick around for a morning or afternoon (or, if it's ongoing - a couple of mornings a week) and physically support the picket, distribute their leaflets to passers by and (attempt to) prevent other workers from going in? This is far more important that turning up and giving a lofty lecture.
I don't know about this, but I've never seen a physical picket. They're pretty rare now. The only picket I have been on at a place I've worked they were anxious to only have 7 people on it so as not to break the law, and there was no leaflet or anything. (Pickets I've just visited I've not stuck around long enough for the numbers to be an issue, cos it was obvious I wasn't "on" it)
John. wrote:
Alan wrote:
These are all good ideas, but surely the most important thing you can do is just stick around for a morning or afternoon (or, if it's ongoing - a couple of mornings a week) and physically support the picket, distribute their leaflets to passers by and (attempt to) prevent other workers from going in? This is far more important that turning up and giving a lofty lecture.I don't know about this, but I've never seen a physical picket. They're pretty rare now. The only picket I have been on at a place I've worked they were anxious to only have 7 people on it so as not to break the law, and there was no leaflet or anything. (Pickets I've just visited I've not stuck around long enough for the numbers to be an issue, cos it was obvious I wasn't "on" it)
Maybe that's part of the problem I was highlighting?
I don't recall anyone saying 'give a lofty lecture' in fact I said the exact opposite, be open about who you are but ask them what they want out of you.
Of course going down there is important, also sticking around and coming back consistently as long as the strike is still running is vital. I've been down to pickets that have gone on for a year and still made it down once a week to talk to the workers.
Also, blcoking things in many jurisdictions is illegal, I would say that it is a bad idea unless the workers invovled are doing it as well, or they have specifically asked you to do so (which we have been asked to do in the past).
Sort of split from this thread -
http://libcom.org.uk/node/8690
Obviously if a strike goes on long term, there's all sorts of shit you can do (collecting money, welfare for families, leafletting, going on demos / mass pickets etc. etc.)
But for something in its early stages, what *can* other workers do? Apart from the (almost always depressing) going down to the picket lines with food and some cash and telling them you support them, for most workers I think there are limits to what can be done, especially with the current state of class struggle: often money isn't being collected, they've got no reason to listen to a bunch of lefties, there isn't likely to be the will to do mass picketting, there's no family hardship and if you offer to help out with anything they want, they're just going to think you're mental etc. etc.
Obviously there's also problems with coming in from the outside and trying to direct their struggle and there's obviously (effectivly at this point in time) no chance of bringing your own workplace out in any act of concrete solidarity.
So I think most of the time, there really is very little you can do. Not to say nothing, and i'm sure some of the Organise! comrades will chip in about their solidarity with the Belfast post wildcats for example, but in situations like the refuse one going on right now, what do people think communists can do?