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What is a "mass organisation"?

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Joined: 19-09-07
Dec 21 2007 16:23
yoshomon wrote:
they have set before them a task which cannot be done at this point in history.

We are not history’s slaves comrade, but its creators. Its unwilling and irresponsible masters.

Bobby
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Joined: 22-09-05
Dec 22 2007 18:46

Boul 'transitional demands' such as supporting the abolishment of the incoming water charges, demanding more affordable social housing, increase in minumum wage etc? all of which i would like to see in the short-term and more? To me if thats not a transitional demand in the struggle for a future libertarian communist society, what is?

Bobby
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Joined: 22-09-05
Dec 22 2007 19:55

thats why i asked the question smart ass?

Deezer
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Dec 22 2007 23:12
Bobby wrote:
Boul 'transitional demands' such as supporting the abolishment of the incoming water charges, demanding more affordable social housing, increase in minumum wage etc? all of which i would like to see in the short-term and more? To me if thats not a transitional demand in the struggle for a future libertarian communist society, what is?

Transitional demand - almost anything off the back of the SP paper the Socialist including democratising the police force, nationalising the top 50 industries etc, a transitional demand supported by the WSM is nationalisation of 'Irelands' natural resources, by who and for who are they nationalised - well that'd be the government if they had any inclination to do it.

Promoting direct action amongst and by our fellow workers to defeat water charges, to win struggles over wages and conditions, to secure housing are things that can be won and the winning of which can build the strength and confidence of workers to go further - they may represent defensive struggles, short term gains, and, well actually the very stuff of class struggle but they are not 'transitional' demands. I mean ye hardly think I would criticise transitional demands if they were the same as the things Organise! actually sees as important struggles right now - would you?

Bobby
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Joined: 22-09-05
Dec 22 2007 23:54

well to me calling for more social housing or scrapping of tuition fees etc are all 'transitional demands' in these class struggles within the overall context. I also have similar concerns with the nationalisation of resources demand, although compared to other trot groups it is pointed out that nationalisation may be better than privitisation but the real solution lies in workers' control, which is not something we would differ on, ie water is better in public hands rather than sold as a commodity, but the solution lies in workers control. It just a matter of emphasis and words.

Deezer
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Joined: 2-10-04
Dec 23 2007 11:43

Bobby, did you mean to compare the WSM to "other trot groups"? There'll be no more phone calls or pints from Jackwhite or georgestapleton if they notice that wink

Bobby
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Joined: 22-09-05
Dec 23 2007 12:27

I was refering to the difference with trot goups in that although nationalisation is better than privitisation, the real solution is workers' control. Although irrational angry claiming earlier that there is not much difference between sp and wsm on strategy says alot.

Bobby
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Joined: 22-09-05
Dec 23 2007 12:35

BTW, cheers for the clarification boul compared to that other sarcastic bstard cas i was asking an open question.
yeah yr right in regards to the nationalisation demand, I understand the logic behind the demand even in the latest article ,http://www.wsm.ie/news_viewer/3191
Although, the amendment to the demand at the last wsm conference (which was strongly supported) helped to clarify things a bit its step too far for for any anarchist organisation to take and thus calling for one set of bosses to manage. Why stop there, why not demand more accountable policing as a transitional demand?

Deezer
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Dec 23 2007 18:24
Bobby wrote:
BTW, cheers for the clarification boul compared to that other sarcastic bstard cas i was asking an open question.
yeah yr right in regards to the nationalisation demand, I understand the logic behind the demand even in the latest article ,http://www.wsm.ie/news_viewer/3191
Although, the amendment to the demand at the last wsm conference (which was strongly supported) helped to clarify things a bit its step too far for for any anarchist organisation to take and thus calling for one set of bosses to manage. Why stop there, why not demand more accountable policing as a transitional demand?

What, just like the SP? ouch!

Um, the thing is if ye presed the SP they would probably say the ultimate goal of transitional demands for nationalisation was 'workers control' as well.

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AndrewF
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Joined: 28-02-05
Dec 24 2007 17:06
Boulcolonialboy wrote:
I also note Joeblacks silence on my question about his dubious distinction between anarchist-communists and libertarian communists - cat got yer tongue joe?

1. I'm pretty sure I did reply, Catch may have edited out the reply while moving the comment as I can't find it now, or I may have decided it was too trivial (see below) to reply to.

2. The reply consisted of me pointing out that you had not understood what I was saying (I said libcom not libertarian communists as I was referring to posters here not libertarian communists in general)

3. In any case I'm puzzled as to why you think I owe you a reply. Five years back maybe but today its not clear that you deserve to be taken any more seriously that your foul mouthed side kick. I really, really do not get the bitterness towards the WSM in general and me personally that you now allow to dominate your political self-identity. It means we haven't had a fruitful political exchange in 3 or more years which personally I regret. It might be better to simply ignore my posts until you can reply to one without loading your reply with accusations.

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x349429
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Joined: 16-09-09
Sep 16 2009 23:12

I am a Libertarian Communist and IWW organizer

And even though we may still be small we are growing and in a proper way
meaning instead of talking about what is and isn't a mass organization we are building industrial union models in workplaces. I believe if you want to make your ideas worth the energy you put into them then take them to the next level and put your neck on the line not just to fight cops and Nazis and create boycotts but to actual build workplace democracy and solidarity unionism. in essence you should be building workers councils that are not tied to a political party but that are tied to the actual struggle on the shop floor. The IWW model can be taken and implemented in the community and industry bring them into one organization yet still have enough autonomy to brake things down into job shops and committees. If your going to talk shit about the IWW you should first get educated as to what are some of the reasons why we say mass organization; as well as our overall history, constitution, and how we organize.