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what strand are you?

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Dundee_United
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Jan 14 2007 20:59
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Ah right so that's why platformist groups seem to have a semi for national liberation, why the WSM has called for electing union bureacrats, criticised the Irish State removing it's territorial claim over Northern Ireland, proposed that workers in the North push "anti imperialist" motions at union branch meetings and held that sectarianism couldn't be dealt with until Dublin got it's fourth field back?

yeah they are really based on the concrete needs and desires of working class people and further more they definately represented a realistic strategy. Oh wait it's just the same old leftist sloganeering, democratise the unions, end partition, catholic and protestant workers uniting on a secular anti imperialist programme, all empty handed rhetoric par excellance.

And that's before we even start on the fact that their suppoused theoretical and tactical unity is no better than any other groups, and that their position papers are so ambigious as to be as much use as edible toliet paper.

You are a sectarian bore. Well done, you've managed to turn even this innocuous thread into a rant about how much you hate the WSM.

Blacknred Ned
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Jan 14 2007 22:16

Revol, this was a strand about what strand people are not about long-winded justifications. Give it a rest mate.

alegria
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Jan 14 2007 22:23

revol - much as i regret to give you an excuse to slag me, i have to ask you please to consider how your aggressive behavior impacts on other people whom you may or may not know and whose situation you do not know.

if its more important to you to make clear how much you despise someone and their position than to contribute to a discussion in a positive, helpful or useful way then maybe you could refrain from commenting.

lets all show some respect!

cheers!

bastarx
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Jan 14 2007 22:30

Ned, Revol's just picking up my ball and running with it so blame me not him. If Rise hadn't been such a cock on other threads lately I wouldn't have said anything here but I just couldn't resist taking a swing at his ridiculous posturing.

In response to my questioning all Rise can offer is that setting up platformist groups is a great theoretical advance - one made some 80 years ago too I might add. For me at least revolutionary theory requires a bit more than a few simple truths about party building.

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Tojiah
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Jan 14 2007 22:57

Hey, revol, I've noticed that you haven't said what strand you're in. Care to make up for that deficit?

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Lone Wolf
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Jan 14 2007 23:09
tojiah wrote:
Hey, revol, I've noticed that you haven't said what strand you're in. Care to make up for that deficit?

Revol IS a strand.. cool

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Refused
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Jan 14 2007 23:10

I'm whichever strand offers me the biggest cake.

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Lone Wolf
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Jan 14 2007 23:33
Refused wrote:
I'm whichever strand offers me the biggest cake.

You ARE the biggest cake... tongue

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Refused
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Jan 14 2007 23:37

*scratches head*

What a delightful paradox.

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thugarchist
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Jan 14 2007 23:53

I'm a realist.

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Tacks
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Jan 15 2007 02:25
rise wrote:
I also believe that, contemporarily, platformism presents the leading edge of revolutionary communist theory.

LOL grin

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Tacks
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Jan 15 2007 02:39

I'm a libertarian communist, i don't say anarchist-communist cos thats a specific tradition which i do not want to disdain by association until i have done my reading.

I believe the internal contradictions of capitalism, which i understand as the need to increase profits eternally, are the best way to take it down and create an egalitarian society. Translation: i am pro class struggle. However i have moved away from social definitions of class, and though i use it as a unit of analysis i rarely use the term cos it carries so much misconceived crap with it. If anything the dropping of vague social prejudices has made me more extreme grin

I'm also increasingly ecologically influenced - i don't believe it is something that can be tacked on to a communist pragram but more like a essential initiative of it - perhapts even the main reason for it.

I'm also up for a bit of syndicalism where possible, but its not my main focus.

Its easier to say what i am not at all:
Primmo
insurrectionist
pacifist
situationist
tolerant
happy grin wink

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Tojiah
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Jan 15 2007 02:44
Tacks wrote:
I'm also increasingly ecologically influenced - i don't believe it is something that can be tacked on to a communist pragram but more like a essential initiative of it - perhapts even the main reason for it.

Indeed. Had there been no ecological boundaries, capitalism could proceed with its expansion indefinitely, simply by constantly increasing waste.

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daniel
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Jan 15 2007 02:51

Libertarian communist, from a family of anarcho-syndicalists, think the Platform is great and am giving Marxism a fair trial after an initial rude dismissal. And of course, "Anarchist!" by Ian Bone is my favorite political book.

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Tacks
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Jan 15 2007 03:20
revol68 wrote:
I read it when I was 17 and even then it made me cringe.

Likewise, funnily enough.

Didn't make me cringe so much as utterly baffle me. Had no idea what the author wanted or was tryin to say. Its a fucking terrible book, i think i can say that now. It would be quite a laugh if it wasn't called 'Anarchist', immiediately making it out to be political.

Bash The Rich is pretty good though.

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Tacks
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Jan 15 2007 03:24
tojiah wrote:
Tacks wrote:
I'm also increasingly ecologically influenced - i don't believe it is something that can be tacked on to a communist pragram but more like a essential initiative of it - perhapts even the main reason for it.

Indeed. Had there been no ecological boundaries, capitalism could proceed with its expansion indefinitely, simply by constantly increasing waste.

Indeed indeed. If there were infinite resources reformism - getting capital as egalitarian as possible a la Sweden - might be a more logical thing to do. Fairtrade, save the whales, adopt a tribe whatever.

But its not, so its not.
circle A

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Tacks
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Jan 15 2007 03:26

just to add to my list of non-interests:
vegan issues, mental health and anti-medical establishment stuff, ethnic/national lib

they just don't do it for me, even in torn stockings.

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Lone Wolf
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Jan 15 2007 05:32

I like most of those interests espoused by Alegria and rejected by Tacks...lingerie or no!!

overall..class struggle anarcho-feminist with a healthy interest in AR...wink

Love

LW X

rich
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Jan 15 2007 07:26

Anarchist without adjectives. Things that promote the basic ideas of anarchism. Trying new things. Sympathetic to syndicalism, or any practical program.

I'd say AR, situationism, gender politics, "direct action", national liberation, mental health, primmy stuff, stuff happening overseas, peacenikism are not my thing. For me it's anarchism and nowt else. This stuff (with the exception of feminism) is to me so peripheral as to be irrelevant. Like navel gazers in a cul de sac (to steal a quote).

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Felix Frost
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Jan 15 2007 08:27

Apparently I'm an ultra-leftist liberal hobbyist. At least that's what the platformists have been telling me over at the nationalism threads...

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Volin
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Jan 15 2007 12:37

Communist, liking councilism and modern marxist theory, and (but?) with a new penchant for anarcho-syndicalist pragmatism and organisation.

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JDMF
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Jan 15 2007 13:30

anarcho syndicalist through and through.

But am heavily into enviro/animal/earth first/eco/tree hugging/gerbil bullshit as well.

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the button
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Jan 15 2007 13:49

eek

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sam sanchez
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Jan 16 2007 20:11

I would be an anarchist without adjectives if it wasn't for the contradictory abomination that is "anarcho-capitalism".

fort-da game
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Jan 17 2007 10:56

Edmontonwobbly wrote:

Quote:
I think the left coomunist critique is pretty sophisticated overall. Whereas the AJODA crowd are just bonkers, and in my opinion either 'don't get it' and are apropriating the jargon to sound smart, or do get it and deliberately misusing the jargon.

I guess I should reply here, given that AJODA asked me to write an article for them but they couldn’t print it because it was too bonkers. Therefore, it seems I have the misfortune of drawing strand Z, and now I am doomed to pledge allegiance to it.

I find the AJODA or post-left project interesting because it raises problematic questions and does not supply ready-made programmatic solutions (in other words, it doesn’t collapse into organisational ideology).

My interests coincide with theirs to the degree that I am more motivated to describe problems and complexities within the capitalist social relation than I am with ‘where we stand’ type statements.

As a damaged individual I feel qualified to express the harm capitalism causes to human beings, I do not feel qualified to adhere to ‘where we stand’ platforms. I would hate to reduce myself even further into thingness and end up espousing some set of politics.

I also find AJODA’s West Coast conception of life as a journey, the importance of individuality, their interest in lifestyle, martial arts, strategy etc etc to be fascinating even though it is not my cup of tea. It appears I like all the stuff that is denounced by ‘class struggle anarchism’.

Alegria wrote:

Quote:
for example, im from a very 'class' background, but am interested in many types of liberation; vegan issues, mental health and anti-medical establishment stuff, ethnic/national lib, gender/sexual lib etc etc.

This is an important point. The class struggle is not ‘chosen’ as such. Class war is a top-down structuring of society, it is second nature. The war is waged by capital so as to further capital's interest (and therefore it defines the totality of the capitalist social relation). In other words, no matter whether you choose to campaign for animal liberation or Tibetan democracy, or for peace, or against pollution, the class war is pursued by capital perpetually. It is not possible to tune out of it.

This also means that we are already (and always) ‘organised’ by capitalism so as to express the antagonism between the interest of humanity and the interest of capital (which is counter to that of humanity).

For this reason, along with other anti-leftists, I am against ‘organisation’ because, at best, organisations are superfluous, the struggle is ceaseless (organisations can bring nothing to this struggle), at worst they are dangerous, they add ideological components that mystify the already existent natural antagonism.

So, in summary, it looks like I am anti-organisationalist, in favour of spontaneity, against consciousness-raising, and I’m an anti-leftist. Strand Z, just my luck.

p.

Blacknred Ned
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Jan 17 2007 15:48

That's interesting Dr Cous Cous. My problem with AJODA is that it seems very intolerant, strident and generally doesn't seem constructive. I do find the post-left position persuasive but to ridicule and dismiss class struggle and organisational alternatives seems to duplicate the monomaniacal certainties of the worst of the left. The authors of Anarchy in the Age of Dinosaurs come in for a lot of stick on Libcom but they do propound a tolerance and constructive co-operative approach that seems much more positive to me than AJODA; I am much closer to the idea of folk anarchy than I am to the sub-marxist stuff that flies around here in huge quantities but only inasmuch as it allows for valuing all different kinds of strategies in different circumstances. Which reminds me the whole ar/vegan thing has made me want to start a thread on anarchism & pluralism.... get around to it later unless someone beats me to a good op.

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daniel
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Jan 18 2007 03:32

Revol wrote:

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I read it when I was 17 and even then it made me cringe.

Oh, what's not to love? way too much swearing, half-baked class war daydreams of destruction, obsessive fantasies of working class revenge, cartoon-like characters, over-the-top violence -- hey, its got it all, that's literature that is. Plus, the ending is so brilliant --- revolution started by ROYAL NECROPHILES!!!! tabloid guerilla-journalism.
Read it in full, glorious form here.

Skraeling
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Jan 18 2007 06:37

I'm unique. I like anarchist communism, but not platformism. But help me, anarchist communism has been taken over by the platformists, when many classical anarchist communists would have major issues with it. Platformists have been trying to recruit me for yeas, but have failed. From what platformist plublications i have read (the WSM's come to mind) and all the platformist stuff on these boards, I think plafformism is theoretically weak, is organisationally fetishist (ie they fetishise the activity of their own organisation as the key to things), is often substitutionist, is activist (thou MUST get involved in stuff, and if you don't your denounced as a 'hobbyist' or other activist insults), is moralistic and preachy, is similar to Leninism (however much they claim to be different), and doesn't keep up to date with current class composition. For the latter I turn to pilfering autonomist Marxism and certain tendenices within left communism.

fort-da game
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Jan 18 2007 17:19
Blacknred Ned wrote:
My problem with AJODA is that it seems very intolerant, strident and generally doesn't seem constructive. I do find the post-left position persuasive but to ridicule and dismiss class struggle and organisational alternatives seems to duplicate the monomaniacal certainties of the worst of the left. .

You are right about that. I must say, I am not overly-familiar with the journal itself but I correspond personally with some of the people involved with it, I like their style, and I find the way that they handle the anti-politics board to be admirable and witty. But maybe, I just get along with people who are nice to me... (when you strip away all of the pretence, that’s the bottomline isn’t it?)

I think the point that I can get along with the Bay Area scene people is based on the fact that a few years ago I participated in the critique of ‘activism’ and yet was able to still retrieve something from ‘lifestylism’ – this was a conception of appropriate scale.

In other words, what is called lifestylism does no harm because it exists on such a small scale, I am also fascinated about lives lived according to chosen principles and logics. On the other hand, I think there are ‘left’ strands within anarchism which are not only unpleasant but potentially dangerous, this is because they persistantly confuse their organisations with the class.

P.

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syndicalistcat
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Jan 18 2007 20:27

I forgot to say what I'm not, strands I disagree with: individualism, "post-left", post-modernist, post-structuralist, anti-organizational, consensus process freak, anarcho-capitalism, "anything goes" anarchyism, left-communism, purism. Despite being born and raised in California and living almost all my life here, I have no use for reducing politics to lifestylism.

t.