Why are Cubans fleeing from their own country?
Apr 7 2004 19:06
I'm reading a bit on Ernesto Che Guevara at the mo' and it got me thinking about them stories that I hear about Cubans fleeing from their own country to America, is there any explianation as to why they fleeing?
Apr 7 2004 19:47
#2
I had a friend back in the States (well, we're still friends, not the point... ) she is Cuban and her family fled from Cuba just after Castro came into power cuz he took over thier house and company etc etc. She was seriously anti Castro and Communism, well anything remotely "Red."
I think currently theres a fair bit of American Prop being fed into Cuba as well. I know that the US Gov had TV and Radio Stations set up specifically for Cuban listeners.
You gotta feel bad for the people that come to the States in the end though, paddleing 90 miles in a whole variety of things never meant to float only to get to Florida(Floridas shit at the best of times) and, if they are lucky enough not to get kicked out, basically live off whatever they can, same as most illegal immigrants I guess... But I can't imagine what would make 20+ people pile onto a blow up dingy for 90 miles of shark & US Coast Guard infested and seriously dangerous stormy waters...
Apr 7 2004 19:54
#3
can't discount poverty either, same reason millions of mexicans 'flee' to the USA
Kalashnikov_Blues wrote:
...and, if they are lucky enough not to get kicked out...
thought it was USA policy to give cuban migrants citizenship? (or at least during the cold war?)
of course with hatians its a different story, but where's the political capital to be made there?....
Apr 7 2004 20:53
#4
yeah, what captainmish said.
If the Americans are diseminating (sp?) propoganda in cuba, then loads of peeps are gonna wan't to escape to this paradise that they are constantly told exists.
There is also the fact - as someone mentioned earlier - that it is a dictatorship. Folk used to flee from the Eastern Block way back when.
Apr 7 2004 21:30
#5
Yeah Castro used to lock up gays in prison camps.
A couple of years ago he apologised for this and said he realised it was wrong, and wouldn't happen again...
Apr 7 2004 21:56
#6
Quote:
thought it was USA policy to give cuban migrants citizenship? (or at least during the cold war?)
Yeah, you know, the moment I hit submit, I thought "ack, are you sure?" but then I thought about Scarface 
And to be honest, it does sound like a nice spiteful thing that the US would do to piss Castro off.
As for all the US prop, theres just as much real info goin back from Cubans still with family back in Cuba.
Interesting little tidbit re: US/Cuba relations-
Theres an ex Black Panther Assata Shakur, who along with several other ex BPs held up a bank in NY and escaped into NJ (I don't remember all the exact details, so I started to write something, but googled her and have copied and pasted this from her web page)
Quote:
On May 2 1973, Black Panther activist Assata Shakur (fsn) JoAnne Chesimard, was pulled over by the New Jersey State Police, shot twice and then charged with murder of a police officer. Assata spent six and a half years in prison under brutal circumstances before escaping out of the maximum security wing of the Clinton Correctional Facility for Women in New Jersey in 1979 and moving to Cuba.
Theres actually alot more to all this then just that, but take it as a taster.
Anyway, she is currently on the NJ States top mosted wanted, for killing this cop. The US Gov has tried to kidnap her and get Cuba to hand her over, and they refuse.
So when the Pope went to Cuba in the late 90s, the US Gov actually asked him to try and convince Castro to hand her over!!!
Anyway, I know its waaaay off topic, sorry, but it popped into my head.
Her autobiography is really really good! I lent it to someone and lost it 
http://www.assatashakur.org if your interested at all.
Apr 8 2004 09:40
#7
Yeah and she's somehow related to tupac shakur too... and aunt or aunt-in-law or something
Apr 8 2004 10:36
#8
I feel a conspiracy theory coming on.....
Apr 8 2004 11:26
#9
No Tupacs mother was another Panther who took the surnamne Shakur as well.
Assata and Tupacs mothers were friends, so she could be viewed as an aunt in that way.
Why Conspiracy theories Rkn? All this is really well documented.
Basically she was with the BLA, the NJ State Police are racist assholes who for years and years have been pulling people over and arresting them cuz they are Black, dubbed "Driving While Black".
About 5 years ago they shot up a van load of black kids on the way to a basketball game.
The whole thing with the Pope and the NJ govenor who made the request was well reported in the newpapers.
Funny you should say that as I am at the moment strolling through a few conspiracy forums... 
Nothing wrong with the odd conspiracy theory...
Its not like I'm talking about the exploding seashells the US Gov planted to blow up Castro... which is also documented and was made availible through the US FoIA.
Apr 8 2004 11:42
#10
It's not too difficult to use anarchism to figure out why Cuba went wrong. Of course the country is under punishing US sanctions, and receives US propaganda daily (not to mention the fact that there are US military bases and the prison camp Guantanamo there), explaining the poverty, but that doesn't take away the fact that Castro is a dictator who tortures and imprisons political dissidents. The thing is, Castro is nowhere near as bad as many US-sponsored dictators who've been in Latin America for decades, but no prizes for guessing why the US doesn't crack down on the other dictatorships .
Apr 8 2004 11:48
#11
Cuba=capitalist dictatorship
Homophobia, sexism, religious persecution, anti-trade unionism, poverty, unemployment. Just a few of the reasons why a cuban might flee to america, thinking that america offers better.
Of curse cuba has some liberal elements, free education..sort of, good healthcare...sort of, good relations with some third world countries..kind of. But these are designed to offset the authoritarian capitalist elements of the state sructure.
Like all capitalist states cuba operates a policy of divide and rule, so some areas of cuba do alright, others are oppressive slums.
Its the same with cuban exiles, some get nice treatnment by the US but others, usually those connected with more liberal or leftist elements pf cuba are left out on the streets.
So some want a return to a pre-castro style administartion, while others quite rightkly see taht as just being a form of slavery to US corporate interests.
Its funny when leninists go on about how awesome cuba is and then mention how guatanamo bay is a symptom of ''evil american imperialism'' or something in the next sentence.
Its amazing that someone would ask why cubans are fleeing cuba, i would have thought that was fairly obvious.
john
Apr 8 2004 11:56
#12
Kalashnikov_Blues wrote:
Why Conspiracy theories Rkn? All this is really well documented...
Nah he meant conspiracies about the killing of tupac you fool
Apr 8 2004 13:38
#13
the us did use to let fleeing cubans in fairly hassle free, until the 90s when clinton decided he didn't like it and made it all alot harder, so now fleeing cubans get sent to guantanamo (although not the same bit they stick "suspected terrorists").
also, vaguely related to the assata shakur thing, lorenzo komboa ervin (i think that's how you spell his name), another black panther on the run from the us authorities, hijacked a plane and flew to cuba, then he was packed of to the eastern block, handed over to the americas and subsequently spent years in prison and became an anarchist.
Apr 8 2004 13:51
#14
To be far, you start mixing the US Government, Cuba and a dash of the Vatican, you can do without a smattering of Tupac to come up with plenty of half baked conspiracy theories...
Apr 11 2004 02:57
#15
alexa wrote:
Kalashnikov_Blues wrote:
Why Conspiracy theories Rkn? All this is really well documented...Nah he meant conspiracies about the killing of tupac you fool
Tupac was a media figure who influenced millions of american youth. His mum was a black panther. Witnesses to the events around his death say he was followed by cops in suits. I'm not really into conspiracy theories or rap but I watch TV.
Apr 12 2004 20:06
#16
Anonymous wrote:
Cuba=capitalist dictatorshipOf curse cuba has some liberal elements, free education..sort of, good healthcare...sort of, good relations with some third world countries..kind of. But these are designed to offset the authoritarian capitalist elements of the state sructure.
john
actaully even though Cuba is indeed a dictatorship,you can't fault it on its healthcare,its one of the best in the world,better then our shittty NHS and better than the americans(though that isn't really saying much) 
Apr 13 2004 14:55
#17
Healthcare in America... hmmm you got a couple extra grand to spare? then maybe its worth getting hurt or sick.
Cuba has some incredably high literacy rate as well, right?
Apr 13 2004 15:38
#18
yeah per-head of pepole, more pepole in Cuba can read than people in America
Apr 13 2004 15:38
#19
sorry that was me
Apr 13 2004 23:03
#20
Yeah i read that 95% of kids go on to study post school leaving age.
Apr 14 2004 13:28
#21
GenerationTerrorist wrote:
lorenzo komboa ervin (i think that's how you spell his name), another black panther on the run from the us authorities, hijacked a plane and flew to cuba, then he was packed of to the eastern block, handed over to the americas and subsequently spent years in prison and became an anarchist.
Just a small point - I'm pretty sure he wasn't "packed off" to the US, he was caught in some kind of trap operation by CIA agents who then bundled him back and into jail.
Apr 14 2004 16:41
#22
I only have to cough and blink for a couple of days and I found my tread full.
I thought the whole point of liberation of Cuba in simple terms was to kick out the rich and help the poor.
the taste of power corrupts I guess, like our own.. 
Apr 15 2004 16:25
#23
In reply to
Quote:
Its amazing that someone would ask why cubans are fleeing cuba, i would have thought that was fairly obvious.
I assume that there was an trade embargo imposed by the US and this was the reason for the Cubans fleeing.
Your comments has enlighten me.
Ta.
Nov 3 2009 14:26
#24
ok, this is ridiculous, you cant say all cubans are illegal, the reason why cubans leave the country, is because they dont like the laws, they dont get paid enough at work, and they simply wanna be somewhere where they can actually feel free, there are simply some things you cant say there, you cant yell cuba libre, theyll get you, sure wen they hit miami, why bother saying cuba libre, yur out of there screw it. My grandma told me she said ok in english, and a trooper told her your not aloud to say english words, (sure that was long ago and now theyre actually learning english at school,) but everyone just thinks, that spanish people leave there country illegaly, and start selling cheap drugs. thats the most stereotypical thing you can say, Cubans simply just want freedom, and the promise of the US, they wont go to canada cuz you gotta marry a canadian, and some people just wont go with it. But others are desperate, you cant blame them, when they are told wat to buy, get little money for a huge amount of labor, some americans just dont know what its like,
Nov 3 2009 14:31
#25
i agree with john, although, they do have good relations with other countries, like canada, and the health care isnt bad. or is it.....?
Nov 3 2009 14:46
#26
rkn wrote:
Wicked film to watch about Cuba is 'Before Night Falls' excellent stuff...
No time to read this thread in full, but why is RKN so mental? this film is fucking SHITE. Best (paraphrased) quote, "the only difference between capitalism and communism is that when capitalism persecutes you, you're allowed to oppose it, whereas in communism, you're supposed to thank them".
Seriously, it's a load of pro-US, libewal wishy washy bollocks.
Is RKN still politically active btw?
Because its a dictatorship were people are persecuted.....
Wicked film to watch about Cuba is 'Before Night Falls' excellent stuff...