Workplace struggle dead? And Bookchin. Discussion.
Dec 30 2008 15:29
#62
Having trawled through this discussion, I'm not sure it was worth the effort!
Most people seem to have been arguing at cross purposes much of the time but have ended up agreeing that we, as workers and as pro-revolutionaries, need to be organised both in our workplaces and where we live (and in our various social activities).
The opportunities for such will depend on the changing circumstances of time and place for each of us, (is this the simple point Ginger was making?)
Most also seem to agree that struggles which remain within the confines of the workplace or living space will not of themselves lead to any wider challenge to capitalism.
There was potentially a discussion to be had here about what possibility and what means there are to widen such limited struggles in the current circumstances but this has been missed.
Understanding the current situation better is of course essential and Catch's original point that the capitalist restructuring of the workplace and the wider economy in Britain and Western Europe in particular had made much workplace organising difficult and often unrewarding in many cases seems uncontroversial, though the same could be said about much so called 'community' struggle.
We have an uphill struggle and must face the reality of past defeats without falling prey to the assumption that changed circumstances make struggles in either arena impossible.
I am not sure if Catch was suggesting otherwise, but it is the case that capitalism as a system depends on our work and our exploitation for the production and distribution of surplus value. As such organisation around work (in whatever varied forms that takes) will always be the essential starting point of resistance and opposition to capitalism irrespective of the social value or valuelessness of the product of that work.
Dec 31 2008 02:06
#63
Yeah, this discussion wasn't a great one...
Actually I would have thought that catch's views on this will probably have changed a bit by now - well, have they?
Dec 31 2008 02:49
#64
lol i forgot how shite catch's politics were, he's more workerist than thou these days.
As for Gorz, well the proletariat can aford to have a good laugh that they ended up saying farewell to him.
Dec 31 2008 12:11
#65
Steven. wrote:
Yeah, this discussion wasn't a great one...
Actually I would have thought that catch's views on this will probably have changed a bit by now - well, have they?
Yes and no.
Obviously I think there's a lot more potential for workplace organising - partly due to staying in one job more than 9 months and doing some very limited organising there - although not to any great effect. Partly because the past couple of years has seen a few more encouraging signs in terms of strike action.
However in terms of either trade unionism or radical unions I've got about the same general opinion, just much better arguments 
at the same time I don't see any point in 'community organising' now, it being based on similar assumptions to trying to build unions. I'd reckon Steven's views on the IWW etc. have got a lot more critical the past three years as well.
And revol is still making stupid comments that don't have any connection to the truth. I'd be really happy if you can find an example of me being 'more workerist than thou' anywhere - whereas much of the time I'm still arguing that a lot of the language we use (me included) tends to exclude working class people who aren't in paid employment - the numbers of which are rising dramatically at the moment.
Dec 31 2008 12:32
#66
Yeah, my views have changed a fair bit as well. This was a long time ago!
Jan 1 2009 04:27
#67
It's weird how the ideas of Bookchin have inspired so much discussion.
Such a shitty work, which advocates abandoning workplace struggle, a point which is totally absurd - not from a dogmatic perspective, but instead, from a basic grasp of reality - has inspired people to reiterate points which, IMO, are almost self-evident.
Needless to say, a semi-interesting discussion.
Could be worse - we could discuss the relevance of Zerzan's ideas. 
- « first
- ‹ previous
- 1
- 2
- 3
a very inspired bump; this was a good thread, and my own position is that workplace struggle is absolutely still a valid means for the w/c to obtain whatever "real change" is still possible. Bookchin's weak "anti-indentity," humanist politics, ignore the very material conditions of the workplace, which make the workers what they are. Workplace struggle may not be the sole means of action, but it is a means of action, and that's how people learn, through action.