Stop calling each other anarchists and replace it permanently with the term Libertarian Communists?

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timl's picture
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Libertarian Socialist?

lplawhead's picture
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To do something like this would be to back down on principle. Anarchism is anarchism, direct opposition to any outside authority. It's a spineless thing to do, in my opinion. Beside that, not all Anarchists would consider themselves to be Libertarian Communists. A quote:

"There is only one kind of anarchist. Not two. Just one. An anarchist, the only kind,as defined by the long tradition and literature of the position itself, is a person on opposition to authority imposed through the hierarchical power of the state. The only expansion of this that seems to me reasonable is to say that an anarchist stands in opposition to any imposed authority. An anarchist is a voluntarist. Now, beyond that, anarchists also are people and, as such, contain the billion faceted varieties of human reference. Some are anarchists who march, voluntarily,to the Cross of Christ. Some are anarchists who flock, voluntarily, to the communes of beloved, inspirational father figures. Some are anarchists who seek to establish the syndics of voluntary industrial production. Some are anarchists who voluntarily seek to establish the rural production of the kibbutzim. Some are anarchists who,voluntarily, seek to disestablish everything including their own association with other people; the hermits. Some are anarchists who will deal, voluntarily, only in gold, will never co-operate, and swirl their capes. Some are anarchists who, voluntarily,worship the sun and its energy, build domes, eat only vegetables, and play the dulcimer. Some are anarchists who worship the power of algorithms, play strange games, and infiltrate strange temples. Some are anarchists who see only the stars. Some are anarchists who see only the mud. They spring from a single seed, no matter the flowering of their ideas."

- Karl Hess

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I think thats very true.

But what about the view of the word in the populace, it will take a long time to decontaminate in the population.

Of course once people get into it they aren't put off.

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Quite ironic that Karl Hess was a fruitloop, not an anarchist (although in America, the line is fairly indistinguishable).

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lplawhead wrote:
- Karl Hess

Disregarding the fact that his definition of anarchism is wrong, why should we pay attention to what he said? Should we take cues from Ron Paul, too?

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Dead End wrote:
lplawhead wrote:
- Karl Hess

Disregarding the fact that his definition of anarchism is wrong, why should we pay attention to what he said? Should we take cues from Ron Paul, too?

Let's hear YOUR definition of anarchism since you seem to be so in the know. Am I calling myself a Hessist? No, I just thought that he summed it up well in that instance. Explain to me in detail how this definition is wrong please.

merriam-webster

Main Entry: an·ar·chism
Pronunciation: \ˈa-nər-ˌki-zəm, -ˌnär-\
Function: noun
Date: 1642

1 : a political theory holding all forms of governmental authority to be unnecessary and undesirable and advocating a society based on voluntary cooperation and free association of individuals and groups
2 : the advocacy or practice of anarchistic principles

American Heritage Dictionary

an·ar·chism (nr-kzm)
n.
1. The theory or doctrine that all forms of government are oppressive and undesirable and should be abolished.
2. Active resistance and terrorism against the state, as used by some anarchists.
3. Rejection of all forms of coercive control and authority: "He was inclined to anarchism; he hated system and organization and uniformity" (Bertrand Russell).

Colins English Dictionary

anarchism [ˈænəˌkɪzəm]
n
1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) Political theory a doctrine advocating the abolition of government
2. the principles or practice of anarchists

Kropotkin wrote the first adept encyclopedia definition of anarchism in the eleventh edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica in 1910. His definition was fifteen pages long. He started the definition by introducing the word anarchism as:

the name given to a principle of theory of life and conduct under which society is conceived without government - harmony in such a society being obtained, not by submission to law, or by obedience to any authority, but by free agreements concluded between various groups, territorial and professional, freely constituted for the sake of production and consumption, as also for the satisfaction of the infinite variety of the needs and aspirations of a civilized being, In a society developed on these lines, the voluntary associations which already now begin to cover all fields of human activity would take a still greater extension so as to substitute themselves for the state of its functions.

Emma Goldman's life long comrade, Alexander Berkman, played a major part in helping to define the word anarchism. He wrote a book called ABC of Anarchism which defined and describes anarchism and is still read today. Berkman wrote, "Anarchism means you should be free; that no one should enslave you, boss you, rob you, or impose upon you. It means you should be free to do the things you want to do; and that you should not be compelled to do what you do not want to do."

The word anarchism is taken from the word anarchy which is drawn from dual sources in the Greek language. It is made up of the Greek words av (meaning: absence of [and pronounced "an"] and apxn (meaning: authority or government [and pronounced "arkhe"]).

Well, Hess seemed to be pretty well right on according to everyone other than you. Please, go on.

molly0000000s wrote:
Quite ironic that Karl Hess was a fruitloop, not an anarchist (although in America, the line is fairly indistinguishable).

I'm not very familiar with Karl Hess, the man, if you could elaborate on this for me, in your own words, that would be great.

(some parts of this post borrowed from http://flag.blackened.net/liberty/defanar.html)

PS WTF does Ron Paul have to do with this? You might as well have mentioned Martha Stewart for all it's relevance.

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lplawhead wrote:
PS WTF does Ron Paul have to do with this? You might as well have mentioned Martha Stewart for all it's relevance.
Wikipedia wrote:
Karl Hess (May 25, 1923 – April 22, 1994) was an American national-level speechwriter and author. He also characterized himself as a political philosopher, editor, welder, motorcycle racer, tax resister, atheist, and libertarian activist. His career included stints on the Republican right and the New Left before he became an anarcho-capitalist theorist.[1]

As an "anarcho"-capitalist, Hess' ideas have as little relevance to anarchism as Ron Paul or anyone else with politics along American "libertarian" lines.

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Some so called american anarchists are fucking disgusting human beings.

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Dictionary definitions aren't known for carrying political nuance. "A political theory holding all forms of governmental authority to be unnecessary and undesirable and advocating a society based on voluntary cooperation and free association of individuals and groups"; this could include nonsense like individualism or free marketism, certainly not any sort of anarchism I'd take seriously.

This "anarchism is anarchism" isn't sensible. Most of what is called or associated with anarchism is bollocks.

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molly0000000s wrote:
Dictionary definitions aren't known for carrying political nuance. "A political theory holding all forms of governmental authority to be unnecessary and undesirable and advocating a society based on voluntary cooperation and free association of individuals and groups"; this could include nonsense like individualism or free marketism, certainly not any sort of anarchism I'd take seriously.

This "anarchism is anarchism" isn't sensible. Most of what is called or associated with anarchism is bollocks.

Is it a habit of yours to ignore all of a post other than the specific part you think you can refute? The dictionary definitions comprised a TINY part of the total post. Anarchism IS anarchism, weather you agree with it or not or weather you would take it seriously or not is immaterial. Anarchism simply means rejection of outside authority, self governing by the people without any sort of authority forcing it's will upon the people, free association and voluntary cooperation. Anything beyond that has been added by people with their own specific views on the best way to reform society. I've said it before and I'll reiterate here that I personally favor communism but that does not mean that anarcho-communism is the only valid form of anarchism as it appears that you believe.

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Well lets rule out anarcho capitalism for a start. and make clear that it has nothing to do with anarchism.

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allybaba wrote:
Some so called american anarchists are fucking disgusting human beings.

unlike, say, john bowden
whoops, sorry for getting upset, i guess i lost my head there

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Then you're on the wrong site. As you've been told elsewhere, this is not some hippy anarchist without adjectives site. This is about libertarian communism. No mentalness I'm afraid. Have a gander at Infoshop instead. Bye now.

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lplawhead wrote:
Anarchism IS anarchism, weather you agree with it or not

you understand the difference between argument and assertion right? you're saying nobody can define what anarchism is or isn't, then offering a (meaningless, tautological) definition of your own. in any case, even if you're correct it's irrelevant. this isn't a website for self-defined anarchists but for libertarian communists and pissed off workers. lots, infact most 'anarchists' have politics incompatble with those of the site (eg supporting nationalism, paedophilia, small businesses etc), and i see no benefit in seeking an abstract, false unity with such people.

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Wow,
I can see I've upset the herd. Sorry to have not been in absolute agreement with you guys.
I never said that no one could define what anarchism is or isn't, quite the contrary. As you can see from my above post I used the words of well known Anarchists throughout history who defined clearly what anarchism is. So it isn't a a "meaningless, tautological" definition of my own at all is it? I realize now that what you prefer, and this is not to speak of all those who frequent this site, is not anarchism at all but a form of communism run by people who think the same way you do with no room for those who disagree. How very non anarchistic of you. How many anarchists do YOU know of who would condone pedophilia? How about nationalism? Talk about completely deceitful blanket statements.

"No mentalness I'm afraid"

Aside from the fact that mentalness is not a word, this is a pretty crummy thing to say. At least from how I took it, to imply that other anarchist thought is just "mental" or "crazy". I hadn't realized how closed minded people who claim to be libertarian can actually be. Congratulations!

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Quote:
How many anarchists do YOU know of who would condone pedophilia? How about nationalism?

there are loads of them believe it or not. a few of the soft-nationalist types hang out here on occasion.

Most of the posters here are from the UK so you will probably see words you are unfamiliar with.

I think a lot of the frustration you're seeing on the last couple of posts stems from the fact this very subject has been explained to you several times in a comradely fashion, but you keep coming back with the same assertions about big-tent anarchism. The point is this site as JK said is for libertarian communists and pissed off workers. You don't have to agree with us, but once it's been explained to you please don't come back with the same assertions.

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jweidner wrote:
Quote:
How many anarchists do YOU know of who would condone pedophilia? How about nationalism?

there are loads of them believe it or not. a few of the soft-nationalist types hang out here on occasion.

Most of the posters here are from the UK so you will probably see words you are unfamiliar with.

I think a lot of the frustration you're seeing on the last couple of posts stems from the fact this very subject has been explained to you several times in a comradely fashion, but you keep coming back with the same assertions about big-tent anarchism. The point is this site as JK said is for libertarian communists and pissed off workers. You don't have to agree with us, but once it's been explained to you please don't come back with the same assertions.

Yes your lordship, I'll be more mindful of my tongue from here on out, sir. Thank you kindly for your correction of my errors. If it's all the same to you, lord, I'll take my leave of you now.

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Oh no! We're the herd! We're so like conformist and shit, man!

Your problem starts with the nonsense that quoted "well known anarchists". You quoted Hess. The guy barely manages a wikipedia page, let alone well known familiarity. He's not an anarchist either. Twat is the adjective I'd apply.

"A form of communism"...hmm. Libcom, what's that all about?

Mentalness isn't a word? Er, mentalness simply means being mental. Mentalness IS mentalness weather you agree with it or not.

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you know what fuck off. i've been very, very decent to you despite my inclination to the opposite after having seen your batshit crazy conspiracy theories on another forum and your blog.

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Why is it so hard for people to do a tiny bit of reading and understand what a site's about before they start posting on it?

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I call meself a co-operatist sometimes a mutual aid co-operatist and to some an anarchist.

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I think a purge of non libertarian communists is required. Either agree with us or face the gulags, the gulag for americans will be in a coal mine in wales.

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lplawhead:

I think part of the problem is that you're relying on dictionary definitions and those given by writers to define anarchism, wheras I think the appeal of anarchism is as a historical movement. It wasn't without errors, contradictions and flaws, but you'll find that its always been a working-class, anti-capitalist (and usually communist) tradition.

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Lots of anarchists support nationalism in Palestine, Northern Ireland, the Basque Country, Mexico and so on.

A tiny minority of mental supposed-anarchists support abolishing bourgeois sexual morality, ie - riding kids. As do some Trots. They should be shot on sight.

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weeler wrote:
Lots of anarchists support nationalism in Palestine, Northern Ireland, the Basque Country, Mexico and so on.

roll eyes

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To be fair, there's a difference between wanting to abolish bourgeois sexual morality and advocating rape.

~J.

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Libertarian Communist is no less off putting to your average person, at least over here in the States. People tend to be rather mistrusting of anything that has to do with "commies" or socialism in general. Also, people seem to equate "libertarian" with the ron paul/alex jones/constitutionalist camp. I think it'd be a step in completely the WRONG direction. Not only that but we need to stand up for what it is that we're advocating here and that is Anarchist Communism, why take the cowardly road and change what it's called to appease people who are ignorant of the true ideas behind anarchism? We need to be addressing the misconceptions about anarchism, not hiding behind a new name.