Anarchist Federation statement on Rojava: December 2014

Ocalan's face on flags

The Anarchist Federation looks at the so-called "revolution" in Syrian Kurdistan, and the role of the PKK and compares the reality with the rhetoric.

The following statement addresses the situation in which Devrimci Anarşist Faaliyet (DAF), Revolutionary Anarchist Action, are involved on the Turkish/Syrian border in opposition to IS. This is a struggle which, if lost, will probably result in far greater repression and tyranny than workers in the region already face, in towns and on the land. It is also one in which class-consciousness and the class struggle must remain at the forefront of anarchist responses. Anarchists on the ground are fighting in a less-than-ideal situation, not least given that the state forces of Syria, Turkey, Iraq, Iran and the US, also claim to combat IS. We continue to offer practical solidarity through the International of Anarchist Federations (IFA/IAF). We also offer our own evaluation of the situation.

The Anarchist Federation is only too aware of the support that many anarchists, including those who describe themselves as anarchist communists, anarcho-syndicalists and class struggle anarchists, are offering the “Rojava Revolution”. This includes lauding the PKK (Kurdistan Workers Party) as a party that has somehow morphed from being an authoritarian nationalist party into being a near-anarchist catalyst for social revolution in the region, and describing the situation in Rojava as similar to the revolutionary situation in Spain in 1936 (David Graeber, as well as Derek Wall of the Green Party left).

Those who wish to hold on to their principles and to keep a clear head, need to examine the facts. The PKK at its birth adopted a leftist nationalist stance. This leftism was very much of the Stalinist variety. In 1984 it began an armed struggle against the Turkish state. With the capture of Abdullah Ocalan, its leader, by the Turkish state, a new period in the evolution of the PKK began. In line with leaders of other parties of the same ilk, Ocalan was and is seen as a charismatic figure to which the leadership elements and the base of the party pay obedience. Ocalan is described as “the sun” around which the various political and military organisations revolve. This situation has not changed with his apparent adoption of Bookchinite confederal municipalism. Ocalan deliberately modelled himself on Stalin right down to the personality cult. With the collapse of the Soviet Union and its satellites, Ocalan and the PKK began to manouevre, to change positions, no longer being able to look towards a discredited state capitalism.

When the PKK military forces were compelled to move over the border to Syria, they met problems with the Kurdish peasantry there, many of whom still held to Muslim religious beliefs at odds with PKK leftism. This impelled Ocalan to talk about Kurdistan as “the cradle of international Islam”. At the same time the PKK entered into a tacit alliance with Syria’s Assad regime, an enemy of the Turkish state.

Ocalan then completed another turn and talked about becoming Turkey’s “most powerful ally” and that “the war on behalf of borders and classes has come to an end”. When this failed to impress his captors, Ocalan then took another turn, recommending that Bookchin must be read and his ideas practised. This initiated an intensive marketing campaign by the PKK towards Western leftists and anarchists in order to look for support and allies.

Apart from the strange occurrence of the PKK, after decades of Stalinised nationalism, apparently turning overnight into some sort of organisation advocating Bookchinite libertarian municipalism, it should be pointed out that this came not from the grassroots of the PKK but was handed down by Ocalan through the PKK command structure. In fact, whilst Ocalan and the PKK might be posing as born again libertarians, it should be remembered that the PKK, whilst facing towards the West as advocates of direct democracy and of secularism, at the same time advocates the setting up of Democratic Islam Congresses to accommodate the Islamists and to religiously legitimise the PKK. This was also at the instigation of Ocalan. In a letter that Ocalan sent to the Democratic Islam Congress he referred to his “brother believers” and goes on to say that “we cannot be defined by western concepts such as communism and atheism". Further he then talks favourably about the Islamisation of Kurdistan. So much for secularism!

As to any change in the structure of the PKK from an extremely centralised structure with Ocalan at the tip of the pyramid into a libertarian federalist organisation controlled by the membership, there is no evidence whatsoever that this has happened. The PKK’s “Democratic Confederalism” is described by Ocalan as “a system which takes into consideration the religious, ethnic and class differences in society", in other words the class system is not being questioned at all. The Koma Civakên Kurdistan (KCK) (Group of Communities in Kurdistan) an organization founded by the PKK to implement the Democratic Confederalism programme, defends private property in its Contract (the key document in the aforesaid programme). This is under Article 8, “Personal, Political Rights and Freedoms". Section C of article 10, "Basic Responsibilities" defines the constitutional basis of mandatory military service:"In the case of a war of legitimate defense, as a requirement of patriotism, there is the responsibility to actively join the defense of the homeland and basic rights and freedoms”.

Zafer Onat, a libertarian communist in the region remarks “While the Contract states that the aim is not political power, we also understand that the destruction of the state apparatus is also not aimed [at], meaning the goal is autonomy within existing nation states. When the Contract is viewed in its entirety, the goal that is presented is not to be seen beyond a bourgeois democratic system that is called democratic confederalism”.

Anarchists can remember Gaddafi’s Green Book, which in rhetoric had far more radical language, where it says: “All that the masses need do now is to struggle to put an end to all forms of dictatorial rule in the world today, to all forms of what is falsely called democracy - from parliaments to the sect, the tribe, the class and to the one-party, the two-party and the multi-party systems.... No democracy without popular congresses and committees everywhere. ... Democracy is the supervision of the people by the people.” But did anyone seriously believe that this was actually being implemented under the repressive regime of Gaddafi?

The uprising against the Assad regime meant that in the course of events, that regime ceased hostilities against the Syrian branch of the PKK, the PYD (Democratic Union Party). This was in order to concentrate on fighting its other opponents, the Free Syrian Army, etc. How seriously should we take the claims about the Rojava Revolution in the Kurdish part of Syria?

We should be clear that the PYD has set up a parliament structure, the Auto-Administration, which it controls with allied parties. It passed a conscription law in July compelling families in the region to send one of their 18-30 year-old members to serve in the defence corps of the PYD, for a period of six months, either continuously or intermittently over a one year period. “Non-adherence” to this law was subject to punishment as stipulated in the law. This law was passed without consulting with other political formations in Rojava and explicitly drafts Kurds into armed groups completely under the control of the PYD. At the same time the PYD is treating other Kurdish political formations in Rojava in an authoritarian totalitarian way, backed up by its use of armed force. It marginalises them and refuses entry into any decision making.

The so-called cantonal assemblies and grassroots bodies are themselves under the sway of the PYD and the Auto-Administration can either approve or block any decisions by these bodies. There is no real direct democracy here, workers and peasants do not control these bodies. At the same time no genuine workers and peasants militias have developed, all of the armed groups are under the control of the PYD. Furthermore, there is no socialisation and collectivisation of the land and the workplaces, as happened, for example, in Spain in 1936. The PKK/PYD marketing campaign has presented the situation in Rojava as one of progressive revolution, but the working class and the peasantry have no autonomous organisation. Whilst there is a quota of 40% representation of women within these local councils/communes/committees, it can be seen from the above that the local structures are in fact not much different from municipal councils in the West, where they act in their role as the local state as support for and in connection with the central state and parliament. Indeed, while some compare the “Rojava Revolution” to Spain 1936 perhaps a better analogy would be the Bolsheviks in 1917 which many anarchists, both internationally and inside Russia, mistakenly supported initially as a truly revolutionary force.

As regards the women’s armed groups, whilst there are signs of feminist influences within them, it should be remembered that the women’s fighting groups are segregated from male units, with no mixed fighting groups. Gaddafi and Saddam both had women’s military brigades, but that did not mean that there was women’s liberation in Libya and Iraq. Similarly women’s military brigades exist in Iran with no sign of emancipation of women. For that matter, ISIS has all-female brigades called al-Khansaa and Umm al-Rayan.

As Zafer Onat remarks: ”First of all we must identify that the Rojava process has progressive features such as an important leap in the direction of women's liberation, that a secular, pro-social justice, pluralist democratic structure is attempting to be constructed and that other ethnic and religious groups are given a part in the administration. However, the fact that the newly emerging structure does not aim at the elimination of private property, that is the abolition of classes, that the tribal system remains and that tribal leaders partake in the administration shows that the aim is not the removal of feudal or capitalist relations of production but is instead in their own words 'the construction of a democratic nation''.”

As Syrian-Kurdish anarchist Shiar Neyo comments: “From the PYD’s point of view, this was a golden opportunity to impose its authority and expand its sphere of influence in the Kurdish areas in Syria. This political pragmatism and thirst for power are two important factors in understanding the party’s dealings with the regime, the revolution, the FSA, and even the Kurds themselves. They also help explain many phenomena that seem to bewilder some commentators and analysts, such as the suppression by PYD forces of independent activists and those critical of the party’s policies, in much the same vein as the Baathist regime did. By way of example, one can cite in this regard the Amuda massacre in July 2013, in which the People’s Protection Units (YPG) opened fire on unarmed demonstrators, or the closure of the new independent radio station Arta in February 2014, under the pretext that it was not ‘licensed’. The PYD’s forces have also assaulted members of other Kurdish political parties and arrested some of them under a variety of excuses; they have been controlling food and financial resources in the Kurdish areas and distributing them in an unjust manner on the basis of partisan favouritism, and so on and so forth. Such practices remind people, rightly, of the oppressive practices of the Assad regime.”

What we are saying might not be popular at the moment, but we feel that our analysis will be borne out by unfolding events.

Our proposed actions

1.Argue for fully open borders for refugees and aid to these refugees. Highlight the conditions in the refugee camps and of Syrian refugees in Turkish cities forced to beg or to turn to petty criminal activities in order to live.

2. Provide humanitarian aid to Rojava via IFA, which has direct contact with DAF.

3. Encourage and support any independent action of workers and peasants in the Rojava region. Argue against any nationalist agitation and for the unity of Kurdish, Arab, Muslim, Christian and Yezidi workers and peasants. Any such independent initiatives must free themselves from PKK/PYD control, and equally from aid by the Western allies, from their clients like the Free Syrian Army, Barzani’s Kurdistan Democratic Party, and the Turkish state.

The Anarchist Federation, 1st December 2014.

http://www.afed.org.uk

---

For references, and statements & discussion elsewhere:

References:

Servet Düşmanı (Enemy of Wealth) anarchist website, Turkey- Rojava: Fantasies and Realities [article by Zafer Onat, in several language translations]: http://www.servetdusmani.org/rojava-fantasies-and-realities/

Tahrir-International Collective Network website: On the Syrian Revolution and the Kurdish Issue – an interview with Syrian-Kurdish activist and journalist Shiar Nayo: http://tahriricn.wordpress.com/2014/04/07/syria-on-the-syrian-revolution-and-the-kurdish-issue-an-interview-with-syrian-kurdish-activist-and-journalist-shiar-nayo/

Statements:

International of Anarchist Federations: http://i-f-a.org/index.php/news [several statements by KAF (Kurdish Anarchist Forum, UK and Europe) and DAF (Revolutionary Anarchist Action, Turkey), including translations]

http://anarsistfaaliyet.org/ (DAF website)

https://libcom.org/tags/kurdistan-anarchist-forum (KAF related articles)

Further discussion:

Workers Solidarity Alliance, USA: http://ideasandaction.info/2014/10/rojava-anarcho-syndicalist-perspective/ [anarcho-syndicalist individual, critical of national liberation context]

Anarkismo, platformist network: http://www.anarkismo.net/article/27540 [reply to the WSA position with many comments]

Comments

plasmatelly
Dec 7 2014 17:13

Ok fair enough, was just a bit unclear. Tbh, I'm not a fan of statements per se, however I'm light of some of the misplaced support in a minority of anarchist corners for the PKK, it isn't unwelcome.

caserio
Dec 8 2014 17:10

I'm all for articles that criticise in a way that's honest, accurate and done in good faith, but this one aims solely to undermine and destroy solidarity with comrades in Rojava.

Things I found particularly problematic:

- The arrogant and imperialist way in which major cultural/social shifts don't count as revolution (e.g. 'the so-called “Revolution”') if they don't conform to the writers' classical Marxist formula; “but the means of production are not in the hands of the workers!!!”
- The patronising advice at the bottom, i.e. "Argue against any nationalist agitation and for the unity of Kurdish, Arab, Muslim, Christian and Yezidi workers and peasants." What, are Afed gonna go there and tell them that?
- The factual inaccuracies: that there are no mixed people's protection units; the disingenuous equation of the YPJ with Daesh's women's brigades, which as far as I can make out are sharia police units that have been established to prevent men touching women whilst enforcing their bullshit misogynist laws - and are not fighting units.
- People who clearly are not all that knowledgeable about the situation writing an article that will probably sew enough seeds of doubt to make people not bother doing solidarity stuff (ok, it's hardly going to make a shred of difference to people putting their bodies on the line in Rojava, but I nevertheless find it embarassing to see so much fence-sitting from these people who call themselves anarchists).

Ed
Dec 8 2014 18:58

The statement certainly seems to have rubbed some people up the wrong way on facebook:

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Serge Forward
Dec 8 2014 19:04

Wow, cage rattled good style. We must be doing something right then.

Gepetto
Dec 8 2014 19:29
Ed wrote:
The statement certainly seems to have rubbed some people up the wrong way on facebook:

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Post by europeans against the political system.

How one does cheerlead (wait, wait, I mean, CRITICALLY SUPPORT) armed nationalist gangs, accuses people who aren't so enthusiastic of some kind of racism or "colonial mentality", and compares them to MAOISTS? Oh irony.

Anyway this FB page is really shit, they support "Peoples' Republics" in Eastern Ukraine if I'm not mistaken. Burn, plow and salt the earth.

Petar Stanchev ...
Dec 8 2014 20:40

The funniest thing here, of course not surprising for your square-headed sectarian behaviour, is the fact that the anger and the reaction of outside people actually make you feel happy and doing the right thing. There was an offensive comment about the "summit anarchist" that literally made me laugh out loud. So, you are the actual, real, like proper anarchists? Do you give certificates? I guess unicorns, shitting rainbows, as your new stickers look like describe perfectly how "everything is possible" in your mighty organisation. Colonialism especially - both in the case of the Zapatistas and Rojava. Who do you even think you are, armchair rats, to tell what is revolution and what not? You shit yourselves seeing the TSG but you are so brave on the internet, such real anarchists: "Burn, plow and salt the earth". Do you even realise how marginal and insignificant for society you are? Do you realise that your group and mentality is condemned by history to slow and hopefully painful death and oblivion? The Zapatistas and the YPG will be there to inspire generations. You? In the trash of reactionary, sectarian, detached from reality and from action white privileged western pseudo-anarchists.

Petar Stanchev ...
Dec 8 2014 20:47

Btw, when telling the Kurdish people how to do their revolution and how to leave the YPG and give up arms, coming from the West, did you actually think with your ideologically-crippled brains that any of these things means a certain death. I guess this doesn't matter when we're talking about something which is not happening on your street and your white asses are save. Stop writing sci-fi, "anarchists". BTW, would really love to greet you with a poem, it describes you quite well:

"He is taking a course on Marxist ideology.
He says, “The only real solution is to smash the system and start again.”
His thumb is caressing the most bourgeois copy of the Communist Manifesto that I have ever seen,
He bought it at Barnes and Noble for twenty-nine U.S. American dollars and ninety-nine cents,
Its hard cover shows a dark man with a scarved face
Waving a gigantic red flag against a fictional smoky background.
The matte finish is fucking gorgeous.
He wants to be congratulated for paying Harvard sixty thousand dollars
To teach him that the system is unfair.
He pulls his iPhone from his imported Marino wool jacket, and leaves.

What people can’t possibly tell from the footage on TV
Is that the water cannon feels like getting whipped with a burning switch.
Where I come from, they fill it with sewer water and hope that they get you in the face with your mouth open
So that the hepatitis will keep you in bed for the next protest.
What you can’t tell from Harvard square,
Is that when the tear gas bursts from nowhere to everywhere all at once,
It scrapes your insides like barbed wire, sawing at your lungs.
Tear gas is such a benign term for it,
If you have never breathed it in you would think it was a nostalgic experience.
What you can’t learn at Barnes and Noble,
Is that when they rush you, survival is to run,
I am never as fast as when the police are chasing me.
I know what happens to women in the holding cells down there and yet…
We still do it.

I inherited my communist manifesto,
It has no cover—
Because my mother ripped it off when she hid it in the dust jacket of “Don Quixote”
The day before the soldiers destroyed her apartment,
Looking for subversive propaganda.
She burned the cover, could not bring herself to burn the pages,
Hoped to God the soldiers couldn’t read,
They never found it.
So she was not killed for it, but her body bore the scars of the torture chamber,
For wanting her children to have a better life than she did,
Don’t talk to me about revolution.

I know what the price of smashing the system really is, my people already tried that.
The price of uprise is paid in blood,
And not Harvard blood.
The blood that ran through the streets of Santiago,
The blood thrown alive from Argentine helicopters into the Atlantic.

It is easy to say “revolution” from the comfort of a New England library.

It is easy to offer flesh to the cause,
When it is not yours to give."

—Catalina Ferro, “Manifesto”

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=902978316378918&set=vb.326149914061...

Serge Forward
Dec 8 2014 21:40
Quote:
white privileged western pseudo-anarchists

grin

Gepetto
Dec 8 2014 22:09

Yeah and people criticising Israel are also driven by latent anti-Semitism.

Gepetto
Dec 8 2014 22:21
Quote:
Do you even realise how marginal and insignificant for society you are?

Pot, met Kettle.

Tyrion
Dec 8 2014 22:58

Strange to see people far away from Rojava whose only involvement in the "revolution" is cheerleading it on the Internet accuse the AF of being armchair critics. Perhaps anarchists need to put their lives on the line for (at best) social democracy led by a nationalist party before they criticize it.

Devrim
Dec 9 2014 07:11
Petar Stanchev Sanchez wrote:
You? In the trash of reactionary, sectarian, detached from reality and from action white privileged western pseudo-anarchists.

It may come as a surprise to you, but Kurds are white too.

Devrim

Chilli Sauce
Dec 9 2014 07:53
Quote:
I nevertheless find it embarassing to see so much fence-sitting from these people who call themselves anarchists

When the choice is Stalinist nationalism on one side and fundamentalist religion on the other, how dare you not take a side, sir?!

Anyway, this statement reads to me like AF is wanting to communicate mostly with other anarchists and, in particular, it's sibling organisations in the IFA. The idea that they wrote this statement as a way to tell people on the ground in Rojava to act strikes me immediately as a strawman (or that someone hasn't actually read the statement).

Serge Forward
Dec 9 2014 10:33
Chilli Sauce wrote:
Quote:
I nevertheless find it embarassing to see so much fence-sitting from these people who call themselves anarchists

When the choice is Stalinist nationalism on one side and fundamentalist religion on the other, how dare you not take a side, sir?!

Anyway, this statement reads to me like AF is wanting to communicate mostly with other anarchists and, in particular, it's sibling organisations in the IFA. The idea that they wrote this statement as a way to tell people on the ground in Rojava to act strikes me immediately as a strawman (or that someone hasn't actually read the statement).

Comrade Sauce is bang on. I think it should be read more as an ey up anarchists, there's no need for a farcical repitition of the anarchist movement's earlier little 1914 tragedy. I think the DAF are well meaning but they are playing the role of 'useful idiot' for the PKK... so are those associated with Anarkismo, as are certain elements within the IAF. It is particularly these last that our statement is primarily aimed at.

Oh, and those from the ICC berating us for not writing a clone ICC statement either... sorry, it's just not us. Besides that, it'd probably put most IAF feds off a bit.

ocelot
Dec 9 2014 10:36
Devrim wrote:
Petar Stanchev Sanchez wrote:
You? In the trash of reactionary, sectarian, detached from reality and from action white privileged western pseudo-anarchists.

It may come as a surprise to you, but Kurds are white too.

Devrim

Not to your average German racist.

In a long thread of political stupidity it seems churlish to draw attention to one particular instance. But the idea that "white" has some objective definition external to racism seems particularly obtuse.

Devrim
Dec 9 2014 11:42
ocelot wrote:
Not to your average German racist.

In a long thread of political stupidity it seems churlish to draw attention to one particular instance. But the idea that "white" has some objective definition external to racism seems particularly obtuse.

The attempt by mainly Americans to try to impose the racial schema of the U.S. left onto the entire world is just something that annoys me a little. Ethnic/sectarian strife here in the Middle East has nothing to do with 'colour' whatsoever. I don't quite see what the relevance is. Nevertheless, you are right. It's not really related to the thread.

Devrim

Chilli Sauce
Dec 9 2014 13:13

I don't know Devrim. While I certainly can't claim to know the situation as well as you, when I was in Turkey there did seem to be a prejudice against darker-skinned Turks. I get this was because they looked more Arab, but it didn't seem to me that color was totally absent from the equation.

That said, I largely agree with your point about American activists trying to impose their understanding on a situation half a world a way - and I say that as someone who didn't realize Turks were white until I moved to the country.

Petar Stanchev ...
Dec 9 2014 15:11

"It may come as a surprise to you, but Kurds are white too.

Devrim"

I guess your comment defies itself without any need of further explanation, however, gonna give you a hint. Racism and colonial mentality are not constructed around just skin colour. If you think so, you definitely lack basic understanding on how racism works. Racism is a social and political construct, developed during the colonial times, where privilege and domination has been build around the dichotomy Europe/US/Rich North and the rest of the world that has been colonised. It describes complex social relations where the people of the global economic and historic south have been marginalised and imposed domination by the West and this logic is reproduced inside the Western societies as well. In this context, your whiteness has hardly anything to do with the Kurdish whiteness. I can give you enough examples of your privilege, but I hope you already got it. If anarchists can't get such basic concepts in their struggle to dismantle oppression and domination, they should probably not call themselves anarchists.

Petar Stanchev ...
Dec 9 2014 15:24

"Strange to see people far away from Rojava whose only involvement in the "revolution" is cheerleading it on the Internet accuse the AF of being armchair critics. Perhaps anarchists need to put their lives on the line for (at best) social democracy led by a nationalist party before they criticize it."

I am quite curious how you know what one's involvement is smile

Anarchists are putting their lives on the front-line. AFED calls them "useful idiots" from the ivory tower of their ideological sectarianism. Such a pity AFED are not even "useful" to the ideas they tend to propagate. Stop living somewhere between the end of XIX century and the beginning of the XXth, otherwise you are just a historical nonsense, incapable of addressing and challenging any of the structural issues we face under capitalism. I guess you can go on living in your unicorn-bakunin world but you might also question your approach and try to be at least adequate. At least.

"When the choice is Stalinist nationalism on one side and fundamentalist religion on the other, how dare you not take a side, sir?!"

They are actually taking side. The side of the oppressor. Talking of "Stalinist nationalism" demonstrates how easily people living in their imaginary ideological world tend to put labels without even going into deeper research of the issue they are talking about. It kind of reminds me of the Mexican anarchists during the revolution who were at the end lead into slaughtering peasants, because they believed the peasants represent the bourgeoisie and reaction. This is where such use of anarchist ideas leads to.

Chilli Sauce
Dec 9 2014 15:32
Quote:
AFED calls them "useful idiots"

Yeah, so that's not what happened. Talk about "imaginary ideological worlds"....

Chilli Sauce
Dec 9 2014 15:33
Quote:
unicorn-bakunin world

Photoshop please!

Serge Forward
Dec 9 2014 16:34
Chilli Sauce wrote:
Quote:
AFED calls them "useful idiots"

Yeah, so that's not what happened. Talk about "imaginary ideological worlds"....

I am the AFED and the AFED is me. This must be how it feels to be that Ocalan chap.

Fuck sake, Petar Stantev Sanchez, how many straw man points and made up shite can you fit into one post? I dunno but you've probably set a new record.

rat
Dec 9 2014 16:48

Meanwhile, in a far off world, well a website, anarchists are doing what they can to lend a hand to the Media Centre of the Progressive Revolutionary Fighters:

http://325.nostate.net/?tag=progressive-revolutionary-fighters-y-p-g

Chilli Sauce
Dec 9 2014 18:03

BAKUNICORN!!!!

Khawaga
Dec 9 2014 18:09
Chili wrote:
BAKUNICORN!!!!

Now that's a eureka moment if I've ever seen one.

Serge Forward
Dec 9 2014 18:34

I want a badge.

Joseph Kay
Dec 9 2014 18:41
Petar Stanchev Sanchez wrote:
They are actually taking side. The side of the oppressor.

Look, I'm open to the idea there's interesting social experiments going on in Rojava (revolution seems to be stretching it), but this is the kind of contentless rhetoric deployed by every side in every conflict ever. 'You're either with us or you're with the other guys, you can't criticise when there's bullets flying, brave fighters vs armchair critics' etc.

If there's a political case to offer solidarity to what's happening in Rojava - beyond the stuff AFed are already doing, and presumably beyond internet posting too - then make it. This kind of name-calling and empty rhetoric just suggests there's no substance to it. Again, if anyone has any info on the class structure/economy (broadly understood, so including e.g. patriarchal relations) before the war and since 'the revolution', please post it up here.

Eta: scare quotes for ideological correctness

Burgers
Dec 9 2014 20:20
Joseph Kay wrote:
since the revolution

But there has been no revolution, social democracy is not revolutionary.

Gepetto
Dec 9 2014 21:17
Joseph Key wrote:
If there's a political case to offer solidarity to what's happening in Rojava - beyond the stuff AFed are already doing, and presumably beyond internet posting too - then make it. This kind of name-calling and empty rhetoric just suggests there's no substance to it. Again, if anyone has any info on the class structure/economy (broadly understood, so including e.g. patriarchal relations) before the war and since the revolution, please post it up here.

"They protect people from genocidal fundamentalists, what more do you want?!"

Joseph Kay
Dec 9 2014 21:18
Burgers wrote:
Joseph Kay wrote:
since the revolution

But there has been no revolution, social democracy is not revolutionary.

Thanks for that, i missed the scare quotes and will report to the wall for immediate re-education grin

Fwiw I'm not sure 'social democracy' really captures what's happening in Rojava (or Chiapas) either. Is it a system of political and economic representation of wage labourers within a redistributive state? It's not obvious that categories from 20th century Europe/America map in any sensible way onto more rural/'underdeveloped' regions nor indigenous populations thereof (in the case of Chiapas).

That doesn't make it a revolution, but dismissing stuff by bad analogy isn't that much better than cheering it on out of a vague sense of doing something. Neither gives any hint of knowing what's actually going on, though admittedly the burden is on those claiming a revolution is in progress to demonstrate that, rather than on critics to disprove it.