Avoiding Debt, and avoiding prison

enriquemessonier "banned"
Posts: 59 Joined: 13-05-05
Submitted by enriquemessonier on 5 March, 2006 - 17:17.

Anyone know some good resources on debts, debt collection, my rights as debtor, rights of debt cellector agencies, bailaiffs, CCJs, etc. the whole shabang.

Im in a mountain of debt (thousands on various credit cards, postgrad loans, overdrafts etc), and now owe savage amounts of rent.

so will i ever go to prison, or is it never a acriminal offence to default on debts - exclucing council tax, TV license, government student loans etc?

Serge Forward
Posts: 1233 Joined: 14-01-04 Location: Leicester, East Midlands
5 March, 2006 - 17:35
enriquemessonier wrote:
Anyone know some good resources on debts, debt collection, my rights as debtor, rights of debt cellector agencies, bailaiffs, CCJs, etc. the whole shabang.

Im in a mountain of debt (thousands on various credit cards, postgrad loans, overdrafts etc), and now owe savage amounts of rent.

so will i ever go to prison, or is it never a acriminal offence to default on debts - exclucing council tax, TV license, government student loans etc?

Here's the CAB's pages on debt: http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/life/debt.htm

Lazy Riser "Orvillite Allegory"
Posts: 4964 Joined: 06-05-05
5 March, 2006 - 17:36

Hi

You're unlikely to face prison unless you wilfully resist paying state debt, such as tax or (strangely enough) TV licence.

The C.A.B are great at debt, you might like to read this...

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/life/debt/help_with_debt.htm

Love

LR

Lazy Riser "Orvillite Allegory"
Posts: 4964 Joined: 06-05-05
5 March, 2006 - 17:36

Hi

Ho ho. Great minds think alike.

Love

LR

jef costello "Beautiful, just like Nuremburg"
Posts: 9678 Joined: 09-02-06 Location: It's not time for beer Nigella.
6 March, 2006 - 00:28

If you don't have any assets or kids then it might be worth going bankrupt to clear off the loans. It probably won't make a huge dent in your life unless you're planning to be a company director smile

CAB are good, go to Lazy Riser's branch.

Steven. ""Best hair at Unison conference""
Posts: 1724 Joined: 27-06-06 Location: London
6 March, 2006 - 03:52

Yeah check that link out. There's a couple of bits here too you may find useful... http://libcom.org/organise/personal/

The Porkadian
Posts: 334 Joined: 27-07-05
6 March, 2006 - 17:13
Lazy Riser wrote:
Hi

You're unlikely to face prison unless you wilfully resist paying state debt, such as tax or (strangely enough) TV licence.

The C.A.B are great at debt, you might like to read this...

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/life/debt/help_with_debt.htm

Love

LR

you can go to jail for not paying your tv license, english law is so draconian, whereas in scotland we are so much more refined with our laws grin

enriquemessonier "banned"
Posts: 59 Joined: 13-05-05
7 March, 2006 - 00:19

erm, I already knew most of this.

the CAB advised me to pay stuff. I mean

what if I;

1) DONT pay ANTHING

2) Dont tell them of change of address, keep track of my debts etc.

3) If they get a CCJ, or bailiffs, does them trying to get their money back ever become a criminal offence on my part if i TOTALLY ignore them? can it be classed as fruad or deception if I have shown no intention to pay back?

also re; bailiffs, what if they take other peoples stuff thinking its mine? is the onus on THEM to prove it IS, or me to prove it ISNT?

jef costello "Beautiful, just like Nuremburg"
Posts: 9678 Joined: 09-02-06 Location: It's not time for beer Nigella.
7 March, 2006 - 00:24

If you have no intention of paying then go bankrupt ASAP, why faff around when you can get all your debts wiped. just be careful to transfer your assets and be a bit subtle about it.

Student loan can be written off when you go bankrupt, protection was removed a couple of years ago.

Lazy Riser "Orvillite Allegory"
Posts: 4964 Joined: 06-05-05
7 March, 2006 - 00:48

Hi

Quote:
1) DONT pay ANTHING

CCJs and bailiffs.

Quote:
2) Dont tell them of change of address, keep track of my debts etc.

If you manage to avoid contact for seven years then you might get away with it, as long as it’s not state debt. If you owe the government money, they stand a good chance of getting to you. If you wilfully ignore state debt, you will be jailed, and you’ll still owe it when you get out.

Quote:
If they get a CCJ, or bailiffs, does them trying to get their money back ever become a criminal offence on my part if i TOTALLY ignore them? can it be classed as fruad or deception if I have shown no intention to pay back?

If it’s tax, benefit repayments, parking fines etc etc. Then yes, ignoring them can get you nicely detained.

Quote:
what if they take other peoples stuff thinking its mine? is the onus on THEM to prove it IS, or me to prove it ISNT?

If you don’t own anything, you’ll still owe the money. Plus a fee to the bailiffs. In the end you will be put in receipt of a bankruptcy order, if it’s state debt then the government may jail you, although they'll usually accept an "arrangement".

Love

LR

enriquemessonier "banned"
Posts: 59 Joined: 13-05-05
7 March, 2006 - 02:02

with regard to the above; every thing i owe is credit cards, overdrafts, rent, etc.

the student loan is governemnt, but I dont HAVE to pay that back, cos im not getting 85 per cent of nat avg wage.

so the same quesitons agian re bank debts? even if theyre enforced by CCJs - arent my debts then to state magistrates???

Lazy Riser "Orvillite Allegory"
Posts: 4964 Joined: 06-05-05
7 March, 2006 - 09:43

Hi

Quote:
so the same quesitons agian re bank debts? even if theyre enforced by CCJs - arent my debts then to state magistrates???

Nope. You owe the bank. What they do to get the money depends on how much you owe. I suppose they could go to a high court and ask for you to put into bankruptcy, but I've never seen it myself.

Love

LR

Vaneigemappreci...
Posts: 1370 Joined: 23-01-04
7 March, 2006 - 19:12
Quote:
You owe the bank. What they do to get the money depends on how much you owe. I suppose they could go to a high court and ask for you to put into bankruptcy, but I've never seen it myself.

you can be made bankrupt on a petition of creditors (all those you owe) like lazy says they can go to court and pass over their petition arguing that you should be made bankrupt, at which point the official receiver will set about the task of realising any assets you may have in order to pay off the creditors and take a nice slice for himself. And bankruptcy aint as cushy as its made out to be, yes its easier to be made bankrupt nowadays and theres less stigma attached to it, but theyre still gonna put you through a lot of shit over a long period of time until the money is paid to the debtors and the official receiver has his fat slice of cake.

jimmer
Posts: 1317 Joined: 30-04-06 Location: London
7 March, 2006 - 19:23

I know loads about bankruptcy, and I'm certain that student loans do not get wiped when you go bankrupt, the law was changed in the last few years so you still have to pay them back. There is nothing stopping you getting a £20,000 loan from a bank, paying your student loan off and then going bankrupt, although if they knew you were doing it then you'd probably get done.

You can present your own petition to be made bankrupt, I think it costs about £300 to do it, and then you go into bankruptcy for one year, and then after that you are discharged. Whilst bankrupt you can't be a director of a company or get credit, but once you're discharged you can do it all again (although it will be a bit harder to get!). Banks/credit card companies etc. aren't that bothered if you go bankrupt.

If you're in work they would probably ask you to make payments from your income which they would work out from the information you would have to give in a booklet once you've got a bankruptcy order.

It's only really worth doing if you don't have any assets (cars, property etc.) because anything you do have will be taken. If you don't have anything like this and you're on a low income it's not a bad choice, but I'd take a look at the Insolvency Service website first:

http://www.insolvency.gov.uk

Good luck! smile

Lazy Riser "Orvillite Allegory"
Posts: 4964 Joined: 06-05-05
7 March, 2006 - 19:26

Hi

Quote:
I think it costs about £300 to do it

Ho Ho. I know people who’ve taken out a swift no-questions-asked loan to get the fee (which they don’t need to pay back).

Love

LR

Vaneigemappreci...
Posts: 1370 Joined: 23-01-04
7 March, 2006 - 19:36
Quote:
You can present your own petition to be made bankrupt, I think it costs about £300 to do it, and then you go into bankruptcy for one year, and then after that you are discharged. Whilst bankrupt you can't be a director of a company or get credit, but once you're discharged you can do it all again (although it will be a bit harder to get!). Banks/credit card companies etc. aren't that bothered if you go bankrupt.

however "discharge" doesnt mean your absolved of any debts you owe, you could contnue to owe creditors for a fucking long time, however the official receiver can only take what you have at the time of bankruptcy, not any assets you come into afterwards, so pressumably if you had nothing to hand-over then a zero credit/debit balance would be given and apart from restrictions on certain business ventures you'd be clean.

enriquemessonier "banned"
Posts: 59 Joined: 13-05-05
7 March, 2006 - 19:56

this is all helpful cheers.

I thought I was right; that I could just borrow all this money and not pay it back as long as I didnt want to own a house or car any time soon.

anyway, I cant borrow many anyways, and i own essentially nothing.

so is it worth paying £300 to wipe out £25k of debt/hassles??

well, where the fuck do i get the £300 from?!!

hahaha

Lazy Riser "Orvillite Allegory"
Posts: 4964 Joined: 06-05-05
7 March, 2006 - 21:49

Hi

Quote:
well, where the fuck do i get the £300 from?!!

I recently discovered that your local high street niche lenders are surprising easily duped, just don't borrow the exact fee, that sets alarm bells off. You can make up a story as to what you intend to spend it on, there is no law against changing your mind.

Love

LR

jimmer
Posts: 1317 Joined: 30-04-06 Location: London
7 March, 2006 - 21:50
Vaneigemappreciationclub wrote:
however "discharge" doesnt mean your absolved of any debts you owe

You're absolved of the debts when you go bankrupt (well they're paid from your assets, but if you don't have any the slate is just wiped clean).

smile

Vaneigemappreci...
Posts: 1370 Joined: 23-01-04
7 March, 2006 - 22:22

yeah, you know what i meant to say, discharge doesnt mean annulment, ie the bankruptcy still stands if you have assets that are yet to be realised, but of course like you say, if you dont have any assets 8)

jef costello "Beautiful, just like Nuremburg"
Posts: 9678 Joined: 09-02-06 Location: It's not time for beer Nigella.
7 March, 2006 - 22:42

You're right Jimmer. According to the NUS website they closed the loophole allowing you to discharge student loans in 2004.

Although I remember reading a Guardian article a few years before that was crowing over the government climbdown in allowing loans to be discharged.

enriquemessonier "banned"
Posts: 59 Joined: 13-05-05
8 March, 2006 - 18:33
Lazy Riser wrote:
Hi

Quote:
well, where the fuck do i get the £300 from?!!

I recently discovered that your local high street niche lenders are surprising easily duped, just don't borrow the exact fee, that sets alarm bells off. You can make up a story as to what you intend to spend it on, there is no law against changing your mind.

Love

LR

"local high street niche lenders"

Sorry you'll have to help me here.

Look, I;

1) became a student. got the loans. am prepared to pay them back on their terms, i.e., if I ever earn more than 85% of the national average wage.

2) got credit cards; at leats 3. at least £3k in total, on top of the £7.5k student loan, plus extra £1.5k for no reason, maybe cos I went on an exchange.

3) borrowed £1.5k overdraft. interest free. not sure if this means forever, presumably not if I default.

4) borrowed £8k to study Political Philosophy. 8)

5) Spent approx £1k of housing benefit money on enjoying myslef, and not gettign a job.

7) Never intended paying any of this back.

8) Don't feel any guilt abut this fact

Do I ever go to prison or not?

jef costello "Beautiful, just like Nuremburg"
Posts: 9678 Joined: 09-02-06 Location: It's not time for beer Nigella.
8 March, 2006 - 18:40

I think you should go bankrupt.

That way you can start the game all over again. If you have no intention of paying then why not get it over with. You're only allowing them to increase the debt with penalties etc. and thus give themselves a tax write off.

I think that housing benefit money is a govt debt too. That may turn out to be a fucker. I'd follow the advice early and repay that using a prsonal loan.

Lazy Riser "Orvillite Allegory"
Posts: 4964 Joined: 06-05-05
8 March, 2006 - 18:50

Hi

Quote:
Do I ever go to prison or not?

Not likely. That 8 grand's worth of political philosophy was a waste of time if it hasn’t even taught you how to keep your head above water, you should ask for your money back.

I recommend you start a Regeneration Consultancy. The bank will then allow you to consolidate your debts into a business loan whilst you trek around the country putting the case for town plaza developments at the tax payer's expense.

Love

LR