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AF Stickers

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Ed
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Mar 2 2004 23:34
AF Stickers

Right, first off I'd like to say that I do like the AF and prolly will get involved soon as I can really be arsed to. People from the AF know me and I am involved in projects with AF people. As such don't take what I'm about to say too personally....

AF stickers are fucking shite.

I'm sorry, but they really are. I mean, the 'Stamp it Out' one is alright as is the 'Sick of Labour's Lies' one. But some of the others are just awful. I mean "War and Exploitation forever? Until we get rid of power and profit!"?!?!?! And as for "Don't Fight for the rich, Fight Against the Rich!", well, it just doesn't roll off the tongue does it? It's not what I would call a rallying cry to working class revolution!

Not being rude but there are catchier slogans out there that could have been used. I've wanted to put up AF stickers around my way but really, I can't bring myself to coz AF stickers just ain't that good.

OK, I've said my piece and I'm gonna get ready for some serious flammage (quite possibly circulating around the futility of stickers OR challenging me to make my own slogans/stickers?).

Anyway, take care. Let's keep it friendly.

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pingtiao
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Mar 4 2004 10:11

I agree with you. Such a shame, as the AF have the best anarco politics around (I would say though, eh?). Class War have the best stickers, I'd say.

There are some good AF ones. The Bin Bush, Bin Blair, Bin Laden one is quite good, as is the No War But The Class War one. We need some more, but it is up to the people who criticise to come up with good ones.

And I am truly shit at design.

We need to go on a recruitment drive into the graphic design colleges. Graphics Workers of the World Unite! You have nothing to lose but your Photoshop licenses!

nastyned
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Mar 4 2004 10:45

there was actually a bit of a fuck up with the last lot of stickers that were printed. some (very!) rough draft designs, in a low quality format, somehow ended up being printed. Anyway, thankfully they're nearly all gone now so we should have some next.

Ed's picture
Ed
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Mar 4 2004 18:17

Do you have pic of NWBTCW sticker?

knightrose
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Mar 5 2004 22:43

nah, the stickers are shit. Sorry. Too fussy, trying to say too much. Much preferred the ones we did in Manchester - but I would say that, wouldn't I?

They're on www.af-north.org and follow the links.

Stickers should be simple and direct.

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888
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Mar 11 2004 00:10

Sorry knightrose but I think the manchester ones are as bad. embarrassed

The NWBTCW sticker was the best one recently - pic of a dove with a molotov in its claws.

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pingtiao
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Mar 11 2004 14:46

Aye, they all sucked balls apart from the NWBTCW one.

Anyone going to AFLondon meeting tonight?

nastyned
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Mar 11 2004 22:31

As people are obviously putting a lot of thought into sticker design I'm looking forward to the flood of excellent graphics and slogans for the next batch. wink

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May 4 2004 17:30
Quote:
I'm looking forward to the flood of excellent graphics and slogans for the next batch.

Well Neddy, I've just designed four stickers for the AF if you're interested. Don't get your hopes up...I only did them on Word 97 and they're more intended to be suggestions rather than concrete designs. Just tell me where I can email them to and then tell me what you think.

red n black star

nastyned
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May 4 2004 20:15

excellent. Check your PMs, i've sent you my email address.

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pingtiao
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May 5 2004 11:17

Hello there Ed.

Have you joined the AF?

Good move on the stickers. I am probably the least artistic person in the world, and couldn't design any at all. I hope you don't think I was being rude, Nastyned, I am well impressed that anyone has desinged any TBH. But I don't actually think that any of them are good apart from the No War But The Class War one.

I still respect anyone who has put them together, but I would prefer it if we had better ones.

Am I digging myself into a hole here??

smile confused

red n black star

malatested
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Jul 4 2004 17:31

Any chance having a look at those stickers?

Al

http://www.organiseireland.org

gangster
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Sep 24 2004 12:54

There are reasons why Class War stickers are better, do you want to have a guess why?

But seriously, this thread throws up other issues, like who has the best front covers etc... Not that I like this point scoring crap...

What I'm trying to say is I think Paul Marsh had the right idea on that old thread about the class struggle anarchist movement in Britain, and I'm reliving that brief Federation meeting in Bradford last year...

Call our movement the Solidarity Federation, have a magazine called Organise and a newspaper, 'Class War', do a national newsletter like Resistance, and local bulletins such as London Calling... Have accountable editorial boards with articles getting included on merit... etc.

I would like to see a better proposal, otherwise I think we should go with this, I also think we should set up a 2 conference proces to launch the process. The first being the debate/problems etc, and teh secon to coplete the process, dot the i's etc, and start the movement in its new form... but hey, I run away with myself;)

LeonardfromLeom...
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Sep 24 2004 13:09

Gangster - firmly in the "great idea but it will never happen" category.

Why not?

Because to a minority of members of the AF, Anarchism is a like a religion. You have a set series of commandments (or principles if you prefer) and if you do not have the correct line on every single one, you are a heretic.

Therefore you can't be in their gang.

Much the same can be said for a minority of Solidarity Federation members and their belief in Syndicalism.

Class War came closest to breaking out of this ghetto. Imagine how much the minority, in both the AF and SolFed, hate Class War for doing that.

The best known Anarchists in Britain are'nt even proper anarchists. That hurts, and that's why you will never see a merger between the groups.

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Sep 24 2004 16:31

Leo I think what your saying is crap, Im sure we have dogmatists in the movement but we also have the majority of people on ourside who actually want to try and get out of the ghetto, so whats really holding them back?

For my part I think there is some minor differences between the groups which still need addressing.

gangster
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Sep 24 2004 17:30

What are they then October? I don't think it's workplace stuff [although we could always clarify this], it's more likely to do with 'Actions', and possibly the Irish question. On other stuff I am unaware of any differences I have with the Sol Fed or AF. We could spend time clarifying the accountability structure for actions ie. Local ones the possession of the local group, which would be kicked out by the national group if the politics were that bad they warranted it, as we already do I believe... For national publications there would be editorial boards, for one offs eg. a book, an ad hoc editorial board. For events there could be an elected steering committee which gives the OK to a proposal before it, and perhaps sets accountability demands, such as email reports every month, and so on.

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Sep 25 2004 09:10
october_lost wrote:
Leo I think what your saying is crap, Im sure we have dogmatists in the movement but we also have the majority of people on ourside who actually want to try and get out of the ghetto, so whats really holding them back?

For my part I think there is some minor differences between the groups which still need addressing.

To be fair to Leonard he did say it was a minority of people that were the problem.

I went to the meeting between the three gps in Bradford and the turn out indicated that Sol Fed were'nt interested and that the AF were holding, at best, a watching brief.

Good luck to them if they think they can do something else that's better, but a year/18 months on - I think we can safely say they did not!

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pingtiao
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Sep 25 2004 13:55

I would be very interested in closer links between the feds.

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Sep 27 2004 14:41

Between the groups there are different emphasis's on stratergy/tactics, the question that needs to be asked, is this simply because of the people involved in this or that particular fed? Im all for unity but not for its own sake, if the end product would be better than what we have now that would be great, but personally Im none the wiser.

gangster
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Sep 27 2004 18:09

The minutes from the 3 federations joint meeting said;

The main theme running through the discussions was the organisational weakness of the movement and the inability of anarchists as a movement to intervene decisively or at key moments because of it. This in turn meant that the movement had little visibility, could forge no strategic alliances and had little credibility as a movement

As Mr marsh said above, nothing since that meeting has changed that, we are still in a position of fragmentation and weakness. The differences in strategy and tactics amount to effectively nothing at the minute. Anyway, rather than isolation, surely those workplace differences are better debated rather than not, we should be in the business of creating accountability movement wide for our political decisions, see whether they work or not, and change them accordingly.

The main differences I see emerging from the process of creating a new organisation as follows are;

TO create a new enthusiasm within our existing memberships.

TO encourage the many people on the fringes or who have lost touch to re-engage in the synergy created by a merger.

TO create enabling can do structures to get our propaganda across in a more effective manner.

TO free up time and effort by NOT replacating work done in our 3 different Feds at the minute.

ALL IN ALL it should generate economies of scale creating a new structure with a new enthusiasm, the quality of our collective effort should increase through a greater exchange of ideas, there would be an increase and concentration of finances, instead of a 'natural wastage' of personnel it should encourage retention etc

I agree those sceptics who are happy at the minute could do nothing and take no enthusiasm into the process, hoping it will fail. I hope that those who want to see it work, at the minute within and without, will get the opportunity to at least give it a good go. The alternative is______?

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Sep 28 2004 13:44

Good response, but how does it become a reality....?

gangster
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Sep 28 2004 18:50
october_lost wrote:
Good response, but how does it become a reality....?

Those interested in the idea should spread it within their Federation, at conferences in the IB etc... We should make an effort to go to each others events, national conferences etc to prove we are not baby eating monsters;) Perhaps those interested in the idea could also meet more regularly on an inter federation basis...

Who knows, if the dynamic is there, the 'extra federation' meetings could begin to be the genesis of a new organisation? I really don't know, and it's only speculation.... The point could be at what time do people recognise that the official structures of the federations aren't working, and the situation demands something completely new? AT times anarchists can be very conservative...

nastyned
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Sep 30 2004 22:58

I would like to see more anarchist unity and i was impressed at how the AF, ASF and others in Ireland merged to form Organise. But they spent a lot of time working to get political agreement beforehand. I can't see us getting anywhere without doing this. It's no good pretending major political difference don't exist. circle A red n black star

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rat
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Oct 1 2004 08:47

Can this thread be re-named?

Somthing like, 'links between the feds'

gangster
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Oct 1 2004 09:53
nastyned wrote:
I would like to see more anarchist unity and i was impressed at how the AF, ASF and others in Ireland merged to form Organise. But they spent a lot of time working to get political agreement beforehand. I can't see us getting anywhere without doing this. It's no good pretending major political difference don't exist. circle A red n black star

Yes, but that's the point - Exactly what are these major political differences? Or are they just old personality ones?

I think we should seriously begin the efforts to make something happen... Are people content with their own 'groups identity', I don't think anybody can seriously be 100% happy, or should we try to build something bigger and better for all our good? That has more coherence and credibility both in the wider movement and on the streets. This necessarily entails a 'degree of leaping into the dark', but what have we got to fear? We can't 'lose' any WORSE THAN we are collectively doing now, and so the possible solution becomes trying to rectify it together. I've tried to emphasis that this is a process, we do need to get together, on several occassions, serious work has to be put it, but whoever said the revolution would be easy? This also necessarily entials a degree of relaxing, but then, if WE can't do it, are we really to believe that the wider working class will be able to integrate into our existing organisations? I don't think so, and that is the point of what we do after all.

LeonardfromLeom...
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Oct 1 2004 09:53
nastyned wrote:
It's no good pretending major political difference don't exist. circle A red n black star

Do they?

There has always been people in Class War with exactly the same views on Ireland and the AF, and exactly the same views on unions as Sol Fed.

The problem is surely that to a MINORITY of members of the Feds having the "correct" view on these issues is absolutely sacrosanct.

nastyned
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Oct 1 2004 12:38

Well I suppose different people have different things they consider important but unless these issues were addressed wouldn't there just be a split immediately after unification?

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Oct 1 2004 12:56
nastyned wrote:
Well I suppose different people have different things they consider important but unless these issues were addressed wouldn't there just be a split immediately after unification?

Not unless there is a bar on factions. But if creating a new federation just introduces the idea of replicating our existing structures into a factional form, then nothing would have been achieved - but there shouldnt be much chance of that happening...

LeonardfromLeom...
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Oct 1 2004 13:31
nastyned wrote:
Well I suppose different people have different things they consider important but unless these issues were addressed wouldn't there just be a split immediately after unification?

If people chose to leave over abstract intellectual positions that would be there choice!

A glance at the SPGB should surely remind you of the graveyard that awaits activists who hold their political purity above all else.

nastyned
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Oct 1 2004 17:36

Yeah but who said people would choose to leave over abstract political positions? Politics have practical implications too you know!

gangster
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Oct 1 2004 18:07

Shall we have a brief look at the strengths and weakness of the existing orgs? This should come from both within the organisation, and from the outside looking in. Some people already hold dual memberships of 2 of the 3 federations under discussion, is there anybody who is a member of all 3??

We should then talk about the type of organisation and structures we need.

Nastyned said there were practical consequences of holding different views, e.g. there could be 2 (or more) ways of agitating in the workplace, surely then we should see which line is the better and then that would lead by example - the leadership of ideas - and that can only occur in practice, at the minute there seems to be little or no self criticism...

Therefore I think we should have a reflexive viewpoint regarding struggles, big enough to admit more than one way, and not dogmatic so that we exclude people... we're meant to be inclusive and open aren't we? The working class is many and varied, and we need a BIG approach if we are to be able to be the embryo of the new society... We need to shed the absolutism that has characterised much of what passes for debate, and encourage a more comradely exchange (and I'm not going to deny that personality issues may rear their ugly head)... anyway - over to you...