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AFED stickers

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redandblack17
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Oct 15 2007 22:26
AFED stickers

I've done a few sticker ideas, what do you think?

anna x
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Oct 15 2007 22:50

I only liked the third one. The first one wouldn't convince anyone not to vote for the BNP... It's a bit like preaching to the converted and it's boring. The second one looks like it's linking AFED to the coppers as it looks like a riot copper is smashing the fash. The third one is funny which is why I like it but has a bit of a class war feel about it and I kinda thought that AFED shyed away from that kind of stuff...
All the best
gregg.

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Bubbles
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Oct 16 2007 03:03

hand

redandblack17
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Oct 16 2007 10:41

urgh... ok just trying something different

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Ginja ninja
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Oct 16 2007 12:41

agree with gregg about the second one but why would the bnp one be preaching to the converted?! in my area we had some bnp candidate standing and the only people with any opposing propaganda was unite who were telling ppl to vote for tories or labour. would of been good to of had some stuff to stick up with an anti BNP message. Personally i think the AF needs some more easily accesible/blatant designs to reach people that arent politised already because some of the sticker designs i think are a little too vague sometimes and look a little dated?
3rd ones cool too, nothing wrong with a bit of humour...

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little_brother
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Oct 16 2007 14:34

I agree. The second one is much too much like the image that Tacks posted previously ...

anna x
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Oct 16 2007 22:23

GinjaNinja wrote:

Quote:
but why would the bnp one be preaching to the converted?!

OK here's the scenario I had in my head...
Person walks towards the polling booth... "Hmmm who do I vote for? BNP or Tories? Wait... what's this? Anarchists who I fucking hate and are so outta touch with the stuff that I think is important, such as law and order and voting, are telling me not to vote for the BNP... Fuck them, that's a 1 in the BNP box thankyou very much"!!!

Whereas the preaching to the converted part goes like this: "I'm an Anarchist, I don't believe that representative democracy is anyway close to democratic so I don't vote, let alone for a bunch of racist, ignorant, conservative fucks like the BNP."

I hope this clears things up. All the best. gregg. red n black star wink

Mike Harman
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Oct 16 2007 22:37
gregg wrote:
Person walks towards the polling booth... "Hmmm who do I vote for? BNP or Tories? Wait... what's this? Anarchists who I fucking hate and are so outta touch with the stuff that I think is important, such as law and order and voting, are telling me not to vote for the BNP... Fuck them, that's a 1 in the BNP box thankyou very much"!!!

Not to mention it leaves things wide open to voting for other parties.

anna x
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Oct 16 2007 22:40

a big ten four to that comrade. smile

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Ginja ninja
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Oct 18 2007 11:09

i disagree, i dont think we should keep quite and not offer an alternative to those few working class people who may just be using their vote as a protest vote against the other parties without even realising what the BNP are really about? also for some reason your assuming that everyone hates anarchists? in my experience people dont just hate anarchists per se, most people dont even know what we're about either so i dont see why its not a bad idea to give them some way of looking at what we stand for, for themselves. At the place where i used to work there was one guy that worked there who i happened to flypost on a derelict shop next to where he lived the night before. although he's pretty right wing he still went and looked on our site and it seemed like some of his ideas were challenged by some of the stuff he read. it didnt convert him to anarchism or anything but at least he looked and realised there was some kind of alternative to his right wing media inspired beliefs and it started him questioning things abit more. obviously im not saying we should try and convert nazi's or anything but at least lets not assume that everyones automatically against just because they hold some clouded beliefs and cant be politicised even through something as small as a simple piece of propaganda like a sticker/poster opposing voting/BNP etc.

anna x
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Oct 18 2007 13:22

We are still talking about the sticker designs at the top of this thread aren't we? Agreed that many people don't understand what anarchism is about. In my opinion one of the reasons is because of the actions of some and rather infantile sloganeering of others that purports to be representing what anarchism is, rather than offering a genuine alternative to what sells itself as representative democracy. I also have a little more faith in working people to be more than capable of judging what they are voting for. As for assuming that everyone hates anarchists... to be honest a lot of anarchists are worth hating as I believe that they do more of a dis-service to the ideals of anarchism than good. That's precisely why I love this site so much, many people here I would like to believe are more interested in making positive changes to their communities in the here and now rather than act in a reactionary way that achieves little in the way of challenging hegemonic ideas. I agree with you too that "its not a bad idea to give them some way of looking at what we stand for" but for me at least it's by living my life according to my ideals in such a way that people start asking questions. Sure it's good to plant a seed or two of ideas into people's heads and sure I constantly challenge 'mainstream' thinking but outright badgering and sloganeering I believe is counter-productive and would lead to, as you say, "a protest vote". It's great that your workmate checked out your website from your flyposting but on the other hand how many other people saw it, said to themselves "fucking pricks vandalising my neighbourhood", then checked out your website and said to themselves "anarchists huh? what a bunch of wankers!"? In response to a couple of other points you make... why not challenge nazi's? They're human beings that are capable of thinking (in most cases), but have just got their wires crossed as to what or who is to blame for the way their lives have turned out - after all that's why we're anarchist right... we're pissed at how things work and how we see people being treated in the capitalist system. I reckon that we should be open for dialogue with everyone no matter what. Finally, about your assumption of others that they hold clouded beliefs and can't be politicised, and I assume you are saying at the end that a small bit of propaganda can address this. I'm not so sure... While I think that saying that people have clouded beliefs is fair to an extent, I feel that is says nothing about the fact that many people already have political ideals that aren't automatically alligned with government policies, it's just that the huge burden that is living day to day to get by , or feed the kids , or pay the rent etc gets people down and enslaves them to the system as it is which can result in people forgetting how much individual power they have. I also think that everyone in their day to day life IS politicised in that policies of some kind or other affect us all. Anyway I hope you don't read this as an attack on you in any way as it's not meant to be. Different strokes for different folks hey?
all the best.
gregg. red n black star

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Oct 18 2007 14:43

i can't say i like any of them sad

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Oct 18 2007 14:45
little_brother wrote:
I agree. The second one is much too much like the image that Tacks posted previously ...

woah woah woah - just to clarify, this image is an in joke re the fucking clowns.

It is not a serious submission for a sticker.

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Oct 18 2007 14:49
redandblack17 wrote:
I've done a few sticker ideas, what do you think?

Its wicked you're doing designs (what program do you use btw?) but i'm still kinda puzzled - if you are that enthusiastic about the AF, why don't you get involved full stop?

Do it grin

anna x
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Oct 18 2007 15:43

I think the tag should be "AFED - skanking in the face of danger since..." eek

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Oct 19 2007 02:42

no gregg you pillock - way to miss the point! The clown is NOT AN AFer! angry

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Oct 19 2007 02:47
gregg wrote:
I think the tag should be "AFED - skanking in the face of danger since..." eek

you must be thinking of this one:

PS - if you really want to learn how to do The Hot Steppa check out the pix on shefAF myspace.

anna x
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Oct 19 2007 08:17
Quote:
no gregg you pillock - way to miss the point! The clown is NOT AN AFer!

I think that the term I'm looking for is "taking the piss" roll eyes
you are mr. sensitive pants today aren't you? laugh out loud

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Oct 19 2007 10:15

"i'd rather be copper than a clown"

David UK
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Oct 20 2007 13:17

Can't we shake the punk scene image? Personally I think the vinyl anti ID stickers produced by the AFlast year (?) were fucking ace.

I propose we remake them but with only one ID one, and others for other issues.

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Oct 20 2007 18:07

Yep i agree with that.

I also rate the

Bin Laden
Bush
Blair
All wars are terrorist

one, simply as a brand recognition one - it had a large AF logo on it, and it works as a straghtforward af wos ere statement.

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Tacks
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Oct 20 2007 18:08
David UK wrote:
Bolshevik Disguised in Red and Black

me too, what a coincidence grin

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little_brother
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Oct 20 2007 18:25
Tacks wrote:
woah woah woah - just to clarify, this image is an in joke re the fucking clowns.

It is not a serious submission for a sticker.

Hi Tacks - I did know that smile

I just thought it deserved more exposure, even though I fully disapprove of the imagery.

Anyway.......... can anyone do something with this?

Makhno's vest is begging for a slogan of some kind.
I love this picture. I just can't imagine M on a horse.

RPG
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Oct 20 2007 20:49

gregg - I'm not really clear what you are saying in your response to GN other than what we should not do...many bits of east Kent are, frankly, like bomb sites- very poor and run down, abandoned buildings and run down, any notion that a sticker here or there is some how vandalism is frankly rubbish. Graffitti, posters, messages, stickers are all part of the visual culture, if anything they enhance other wise run down areas. I agree that stickers (and other propoganda) shouldn't be put anywhere but I suspect that most stuff isn't a problem and doesn't produce the response you suggest. I think it WOULD produce that response in middle class areas but none of us live in such areas.

As for countering the far right - frankly I don't think that there is any arguing to be had with commited fash, not in my experience anyway. Most people who vote BNP are voting against something else (poor housing, poor health care, lack of welfare..) I take a 'by all means necessary' approach which I have to admitt, despite my commitment to anarchism, has sometimes even meant voting...I think effectively fighting the far right, particularly now they on the whole promote election politics rather than street politics, may well mean compromise on occassions but fuck the world ain't perfect is it?

Your comment about 'faith in working class people in judging who they vote for' is interesting. We know on white w/c estates in Chatham for example the majority of people who vote, vote BNP. I think they are misguided. In my experience knocking on doors many people don't know what the BNP stand for, as I said above, they are voting against there situation.

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Oct 21 2007 10:39
RPG wrote:
I take a 'by all means necessary' approach which I have to admitt, despite my commitment to anarchism, has sometimes even meant voting...I think effectively fighting the far right, particularly now they on the whole promote election politics rather than street politics, may well mean compromise on occassions but fuck the world ain't perfect is it?

Why is it that it often takes little more than a fascist standing for election to frighten anarchists away from class politics?

RPG wrote:
As for countering the far right - frankly I don't think that there is any arguing to be had with commited fash, not in my experience anyway.

We argue with fascist workers. It is necessary.

Devrim

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madashell
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Oct 21 2007 15:12
Devrim wrote:
Why is it that it often takes little more than one anarchist to say something I disagree with to inspire me to make totally innacurate sweeping statements?

Fixed smile

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Oct 21 2007 16:18
madashell wrote:
Devrim wrote:
Why is it that it often takes little more than one anarchist to say something I disagree with to inspire me to make totally innacurate sweeping statements?

Fixed :)

As if this isn't something that doesn't constantly come up. Everytime there is a discusion about fascism some 'anarchists' will advocate voting against it.

Devrim

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Oct 21 2007 17:15

As far as I am concerned, anarchist activity should be about getting involved in countering fascists whenever they are organising, so that means disrupting their meetings whether that's around election time or now, as happened last week in Kimberley ... http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2007/10/383877.html
Part of this activity includes door-to-door leafleting (as preceded this event), and when appropriate local meetings, to counter fascist propaganda, to stress the need to organise, and physically confront where necessary. Obviously the current goal of the BNP is to build up a strength in an area that gets them seats on parish and local councils, that might one day result in them getting an MP. In response, class struggle anarchism is not about encouraging voting (for another party) against, rather helping to create conditions where people won't support fascists either by voting for them or doing anything else with them. If stickers/posters are going up they are preferably put up by people in their own neighbourhoods, but if not, stickers (put up by someone in a nearby area) shows there is someone around who wants to do something about it. So in the sticker example, it would be far better to show local collective anti-fascist action rather than a cop!

PS these (and more) stickers/posters already exist:
http://www.afed.org.uk/pdfs
and can even be ordered from AF-north in a most modern manner...
http://www.af-north.org/merchandise/forsale.html

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Oct 21 2007 18:25
Devrim wrote:
As if this isn't something that doesn't constantly come up. Everytime there is a discusion about fascism some 'anarchists' will advocate voting against it.

Some will, yes, but they're by no means a majority, or even a signifigant minority.

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Oct 21 2007 18:57
madashell wrote:
Devrim wrote:
As if this isn't something that doesn't constantly come up. Everytime there is a discusion about fascism some 'anarchists' will advocate voting against it.

Some will, yes, but they're by no means a majority, or even a signifigant minority.

You are of course right, I am not claiming it is a majority, and I didn't mean it to come across like that. There are anarchists who argue against this as clearly as we do. To me though it says something about either a weakness in theory, or organisation when we hear these calls coming the anarchist organisations.

Devrim

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Oct 21 2007 19:02
Quote:
As far as I am concerned, anarchist activity should be about getting involved in countering fascists whenever they are organising

Why?
Devrim