The AF in Ireland

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jimm
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Oct 31 2006 19:47
The AF in Ireland

At the AF-Ireland website http://flag.blackened.net/af/ireland/ it says "Welcome to the Anarchist Federation in Ireland. We are now part of the wider group, Organise Ireland"

Is that the case; are (some?) members of Organise! still participating in the AF? If so, how many and how does it work in practice? Are there any members of AF Ireland who are not members of Organise! In fact, how many members does the AF have in Ireland now?

knightrose
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Oct 31 2006 21:53

Yes there are members of the AF in Ireland. And we'd accept new members too.

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madashell
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Nov 1 2006 03:10

Hopefully somebody will correct me on this if I'm wrong, but we don't have any local groups in Ireland at all, so I'm not too sure if you could say we have much of a presence in Ireland at all.

Bobby
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Nov 1 2006 12:16

As far as i aware Ireland AF are non-existant in the north anyhow. A few years back the AF and Anarchist Syndicalist Federation merged to form Organise! who are involved in a range of activites, including the struggle against the water charges. We have a website at wwww.organiseireland.org, but it is currently down at the moment and we are in the process of building a new one.

Deezer
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Nov 1 2006 13:44

I dunno, but it seems a bit 'off' to me to have a merger between the AF Ireland and ASF (that also involved a few individuals not in either at the time) to form Organise! and then have the AF in Britain (or at least one member of it) say they'd accept members in Ireland all over again. Sort of seems to be undoing and undermining the work that their comrades had carried only very recently.

knightrose
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Nov 1 2006 13:48

I'm a little reluctant to carry on this conversation here. I can guess all sorts of people will read stuff into it that isn't intended. I'd rather do it by PM.

Bobby
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Nov 1 2006 14:12

aye, me too

Mike Harman
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Nov 1 2006 15:23

Yeah I don't see any reason for that to be answered privately at all.

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georgestapleton
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Nov 1 2006 15:57

As far as I know one ex-O! member is was a member of AF before the merger, after the merger and after leaving O!. So the AF have one member in Ireland, I think.

Bobby
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Nov 1 2006 16:14

the secret whelling and dealing behind closed doors! Personally i dont care if AF has members in Ireland. I dont see the point in it, but causing confusion in the ranks and private pms from her majesty is a different matter.

knightrose
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Nov 1 2006 17:32
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the secret whelling and dealing behind closed doors! Personally i dont care if AF has members in Ireland. I dont see the point in it, but causing confusion in the ranks and private pms from her majesty is a different matter.

That's why I didn't want it as a public disucssion. Already it's being taken the wrong way.
We have one or two members in Ireland.

knightrose
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Nov 1 2006 17:58

Our position is that we would like to get on better with Organise. Have I fucked up on this?

knightrose
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Nov 1 2006 18:05

I'm talking about us in Britain, not Organise in the north. We - by that I mean those of us over here - would like to get on better with you lot over there. There is no AF in northern Ireland.

knightrose
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Nov 1 2006 18:10
revol68 wrote:
knightrose wrote:
I'm talking about us in Britain, not Organise in the north. We - by that I mean those of us over here - would like to get on better with you lot over there. There is no AF in northern Ireland.

So there is an AF in the South?
Funny no one ever got round to telling Organise! that, especially considering Organise! has never been partitionist and has had members in the south.

AAAAAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH.

You know that there is an AF member paying dues in the south. You've known it for ages.

knightrose
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Nov 1 2006 18:17

No. As I said in my pm to you, I wish I'd never made the fucking comment in the first place. Sometimes I foolishly make lighthearted quips. They get taken the wrong way. This one has.

Deezer
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Nov 1 2006 18:19

No actually revol68 probably didn't know that. Quite a few members of Organise! who have joined since the merger probably didn't either. It was quite a while before Organise! were aware that an individual southern AF member was still paying dues to the AF in Britain.

Where others in Organise! were aware of this it was viewed as an anomally I suppose - we certainly didn't expect the AF to start recruiting or 'welcoming' more members in Ireland after the AF Ireland and ASF formed Organise! (and that goes for the other ex AF Ireland members in Organise! as well btw).

We'd have thought that given the merger folk contacting the AF would have been told that Organise! was the nearest 'friendly' organisation in Ireland but p'raps that sounds too much like common sense?

Deezer
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Nov 1 2006 18:20

I obviously typed my last post up while the conversaton continued...

knightrose
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Nov 1 2006 18:27

We'd always tell people living near you to contact you.

knightrose
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Nov 1 2006 18:38
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As far as we knew the AF wouldn't have been in Ireland telling anyone to contact anyone

People come across our websites from many places. we put them in touch with the groups nearest them. That's what I meant.

knightrose
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Nov 1 2006 18:45

It would be better if someone living near Organise joined Organise, providing they agreed with Organise's politics.

knightrose
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Nov 1 2006 18:47

I'm going to have to stop being part of this discussion in a few minutes. The battery on my computer is almost dead and I left the mains lead at work. Plus I've got to go and cook.
I did, though, mistakenly see you guys and gals as being organised in the north of Ireland. Sorry for the confusion.

knightrose
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Nov 1 2006 18:51

Organise! But they'd have to decide about the politics, wouldn't they?

Bobby
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Nov 1 2006 18:56

For fuck sake this is like small little sects arguing with each other, over something pitty.

knightrose
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Nov 1 2006 18:58

As I said, I don't care where our members live as long as they can be active members. That, btw, is NOT AF policy, just my opinion. I recognise no national boundaries, just practical ones. So I'd tell soemone in Derry or Belfast to meet up with you guys. I dunno about Dublin? Should I suggest they meet up with the WSM? What about Mayo? Who there? This is the last thing I can post for a while - the battery is going.

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madashell
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Nov 1 2006 19:21

*weeps*

Look, if somebody e-mailed from Ireland enquiring about membership, we'd direct them towards Organise (I don't think it's ever come up anyway), it's that simple.

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madashell
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Nov 1 2006 19:31
revol68 wrote:
So Knightrose was mistaken when he said youse would accept new members in Ireland?

If that's the case grand, no worries, but he seems to be unwilling to commit himself to such a straight forward answer on this.

I think what Knightrose was saying is that if the weird happenstance came up where somebody who lived in Ireland agree with our politics but not those of Organise, we'd accept them as members.

In practice, it's not likely to come up and I think Knightrose was mistaken in saying it anyway. This whole thing has gotten blown out of all proportion.

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madashell
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Nov 1 2006 19:34
guydebordisdead wrote:
madashell wrote:
*weeps*

Look, if somebody e-mailed from Ireland enquiring about membership, we'd direct them towards Organise (I don't think it's ever come up anyway), it's that simple.

:(

Oh for Christ's sake, I'm going for a lie down.

knightrose
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Nov 1 2006 20:00

and what if a few people over here decided they liked Organise's position on unions better and wanted to form an Organise group. I'd say good luck to them. Then we'd try and work together. We manage to do so ok with Solfed.
I'm going to join madashell lying down. I said I didn't want to discuss this openly, but preferred to do so via PM. It's all got silly. If I lived in Belfast, I'd be knocking on your door asking for a membership form.

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madashell
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Nov 1 2006 20:00
revol68 wrote:
madashell wrote:
revol68 wrote:
So Knightrose was mistaken when he said youse would accept new members in Ireland?

If that's the case grand, no worries, but he seems to be unwilling to commit himself to such a straight forward answer on this.

I think what Knightrose was saying is that if the weird happenstance came up where somebody who lived in Ireland agree with our politics but not those of Organise, we'd accept them as members.

In practice, it's not likely to come up and I think Knightrose was mistaken in saying it anyway. This whole thing has gotten blown out of all proportion.

really? Cos that seems mighty fucking strange! Would they not then become the AF in Ireland? So the fact that a certain ex member of Organise is still paying dues to the AF would that mean they'd be put in touch with him and they would be AF Ireland? Cos I'd always thought that certain person was just an AF supporter.

So if youse had a few people that joined the AF instead of Organise wouldn't that constitute an AF Irish group?

I think the problem here is that the AF doesn't have a set policy one way or another about whether we'd accept members in Ireland, which makes things a bit awkward.

We're not looking to set up local groups in Ireland, in any case, with Organise (who we don't have any real disagreements with) already there, there's no need for it.

nastyned
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Joined: 30-09-03
Nov 1 2006 20:17

LOL!

Poor old knightrose that's the second time he's inadvertantly caused offence recently.

Ireland, Organise and the WSM were discussed at the last AF delegate meeting the day after the bookfair. The minutes are a bit shit though so i'm not entirely sure what was discussed though we'd be happy to have closer links with all of you. Ah, isn't that nice.

And you can rest easy we're not planning to buy a house in belfast wink

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Tacks
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Nov 1 2006 23:36

Because others have had to repeat themselves to no avail, perhaps saying the same thing from another source might help. Worth a shot:

AF have no clear policy towards ireland as a whole at the moment; we'd probably tell people to contact the group they were nearest to. We have increasingly good relations with both groups, and if anything we are working towards seeing if the differences really matter at all.

I for one would certainly be interested in looking at this, having had a good experience of the WSM when working with them.

smile